Gas Colic, what to do when the vet can't get there....

[maresnest]

[QUOTE=Oakstable;3391411]
What symptoms tells a vet to do a rectal in a colic situation?[/QUOTE]

Some may disagree, but in my opinion, a rectal is a part of pretty much any good colic workup. I think that for pretty much every colic you need a TPR, a check of the mucus membranes, an educated ear listening to gut sounds, a rectal exam, and an NG tube passed to at least check for reflux. There are, of course, sometimes very minor borderline cases in which case the rectal and NG tube may not be necessary. But, generally speaking, I think it’s better to err on the side of gathering too much information.

Also, OP: Don’t be afraid to call your vet in the middle of the night. After-hours colics are commonplace, and it is far better to risk annoying the vet by treating a minor colic at midnight than to let the vet sleep and be driving to the surgical facility (or digging a hole) at 10am. Trust me, horse vets are used to attending colics in the middle of the night.

[aspenlucas]

[QUOTE=MaresNest;3391710]

Also, OP: Don’t be afraid to call your vet in the middle of the night. After-hours colics are commonplace, and it is far better to risk annoying the vet by treating a minor colic at midnight than to let the vet sleep and be driving to the surgical facility (or digging a hole) at 10am. Trust me, horse vets are used to attending colics in the middle of the night.[/QUOTE]

Please don’t think it was that I didn’t call the vet. I said I couldn’t get the vet. It was 7 or 8ish and the regular vet was not available to come out. My option would have been to trailer three mares and two weanlings to a clinic 30 minutes away. While it would have been possible I chose to watch the horses. They never did do anything that would make me call a vet. I had originally called to see if I could pick up more banamine, but it was not possible as the vet was not available. I know I’ve been in the situation where I’ve had an emergency and the vet has gotten a call when she’s been with me and said to the owner, I can’t come right now, call me if it gets worth. They have to prioritize.

[maresnest]

[QUOTE=aspenlucas;3391901]
It was 7 or 8ish and the regular vet was not available to come out. My option would have been to trailer three mares and two weanlings to a clinic 30 minutes away.[/QUOTE]

I don’t want you to feel like I’m antagonizing you. I’m just saying that horse vets see colics in the middle of the night all the time. And if your regular vet can’t come for one reason or another, don’t feel shy about calling a different one. I realize you were in a tough spot having so many who were borderline colicky.

I say this because I am well accustomed to getting vets out of bed at any and all hours of the night: I used to work the night shift in a surgical facility. But I’ve also gotten vets out of bed for my own horses, too. After I moved and changed jobs (so, no longer working at or living near the surgical facility), I had a horse who started looking queasy at 11:30 pm. I was brand new in town and didn’t know the vets. I picked up the phone and dragged the vet out of bed to treat a mild impaction. She was there from 1am - 2am and didn’t mind at all. Horse vets accept this as part of their job. Those that can’t deal with it don’t stay horse vets for long.

Also, I have a very strong preference for multi-vet practices for just the reason you described. If the practice receives more than one emergency call at a time, caller number 2 is just out of luck if there’s only one doctor. It may sound extreme, but - having worked for a variety of veterinarians - I will never again use one who doesn’t have at least one partner.

[Chiniko]

What she said.
And it is most definitely their job to be at your side come hell or high water or distance or find a vet who will. My friends have toothpicks holding their eyes open because they do work 24/7. It’s their job. Like any other emergency medical practitioner…

[Oakstable]

I’ve had horses for 28 years and so have had a handful of colics. This week was the FIRST time a vet did a rectal on the horse. She also put a tube in the nose to drain off gas/food. I’ve never seen this done before. All previous colic episodes were treated with a tube into the stomach to pump a liquid in.

Can anyone elaborate on what triggered the vet to go in this direction instead of a typical “tubing?”

TIA

[maresnest]

[QUOTE=Oakstable;3392478]
I’ve had horses for 28 years and so have had a handful of colics. This week was the FIRST time a vet did a rectal on the horse. She also put a tube in the nose to drain off gas/food. I’ve never seen this done before. All previous colic episodes were treated with a tube into the stomach to pump a liquid in.

Can anyone elaborate on what triggered the vet to go in this direction instead of a typical “tubing?”

TIA[/QUOTE]

Oh. Hmmm. That’s a very different experience than I’ve had. Don’t suppose you’ve changed vets recently?

Both the vets that I have worked for and the vets that I have used for my own horses have used the rectal as part of a standard colic exam. There might be some reason why they would skip it in a given instance, but I am surprised that your vet(s) doesn’t/don’t use it as part of a regular colic workup. It’s a diagnostic tool, not a treatment, so the vets I have known just went ahead and did it.

Of course, a rectal exam is not a risk free procedure to either the animal or the veterinarian. There is always a small risk of tears or perforations to the animal and a risk of getting kicked to the vet. But, having probably 300+ colics under my belt from working in the surgical facility, I’ve still never seen a tear/perforation due to a rectal exam, nor have I seen a vet get kicked doing a rectal. But both are possible, and both would be (obviously) quite bad.

But, to make an attempt at answering the question you actually asked… Rectal exams can reveal twists, displacements, gas distension, and sometimes tumors. But they are only effective for the parts of the horse that are within the length of the vet’s arm. So maybe if your vet is confident that you’re dealing with a problem high up in the GI tract (ulcers, enteritis), s/he doesn’t bother with the rectal. Or maybe if s/he has the differential list down to a few things that all have the same treatment, s/he doesn’t bother with the rectal. I’m just trying to make an educated guess here, though, because what you’ve described is a very different protocol than the vets I am familiar with use.

Also, you mentioned decompressing the stomach with an NG tube. This has been one of my pet peeves since leaving the hospital. I am appalled that some vets don’t check for reflux before they pump the horse full of oil/water/electrolytes. If the horse needs to reflux but instead has his belly pumped full of oil/water/electrolytes, the stomach can rupture. One of the most heartbreaking cases I ever saw in the hospital was a little horse whose referring veterinarian pumped him full of oil before sending him on to us. His stomach ruptured in the trailer on the way to the hospital, and all we could do was put him down. That kind of ‘lather, rinse, repeat’ approach to colic is, in my unprofessional opinion, completely unacceptable. I think you have to do the diagnostics first, then the treatment. Sure, a lot of the time you’re probably going to end up doing Banamine and water/oil/electrolytes anyway. But I think it’s borderline malpractice not to do the diagnostics thoroughly beforehand.

Oh… uh… how’d I get up on this soapbox? :uhoh:

[Catersun]

[QUOTE=EqTrainer;3389392]
Please, please edit this post…

20cc of Dermosedan would lay your horse down. I can only imagine, but it might kill it. You use 1/2 to 1 cc of Dermosedan to render a horse almost unable to move. If you gave a horse that much, there’s no way in creation you would be handwalking it in a few minutes…

I’d be laughing but it’s too scary.[/QUOTE]

I can’t understand why ANYONE (aside from a vet) would have 20cc of demorsadan on hand anyways!?!

[Waterwitch]

I consider passing the nasogastric tube and performing a rectal exam to be basic diagnostic procedures for every colic.

Someone mentioned that they make their vet do a rectal first - I always pass the tube before the rectal. If a horse is surgical or has ileus (absence of motility in the GI tract) this step could save its life by decompressing the stomach and preventing a gastric rupture, not to mention gastric decompression is very important for pain reduction if gastric dilatation is a factor (passing the NG tube can also reveal important clues about the duration of and cause of the colic, but this is secondary to relieving pain and pressure). Once the horse is more comfortable and the stomach has been decompressed if needed, I perform the rectal exam to gather further clues as to a possible cause for the abdominal pain.

Oakstable, if your vet doesn’t always do a complete colic exam, it may be that s/he did a complete exam this time because the horse had signs of circulatory compromise/shock - abnormal mucous membrane color and capillary refill time, dehydration, very high heart rate, etc. or perhaps the horse didn’t respond as expected to pain medication.

ETA: Marenest - looks like we were posting at the same time.

[Oakstable]

My regular vet for 25 yrs has never done a rectal for a colic. We haven’t had many colics, maybe a half dozen in all that time.

When my young mare coliced last Sunday, the vet did the rectal and the tube in the nose to release gas or food. I got a second opinion on Monday and that different vet also did a rectal.

Both vets recommended hospitalization. The mare was not insured and I could not afford the $5k + so the mare was euthanized.

[maresnest]

Oakstable, I’m so sorry to hear that you lost your mare.

Waterwitch, I’m glad to have a vet weigh in on the conversation!

[Xanthoria]

@QHJockee;3390275

If you are comfortable giving IV injections, talk to your vet about using Buscopan. It is an antispasmoidic and muscle relaxant that will help quiet the tremoring gut.

Buscopan is a great treatment - it works fast, and as mentioned is antispasmodic. Since buscopan is not an analgesic it won’t mask pain from colic as banamine etc can. Masking pain by giving an analgesic worries me in colic cases… you’re not treating it, you’re only stopping the pain, which could lead to delayed vet attention.

The human oral treatments talked about on this thread usually have simethicone as their anti-gas ingredient. It’s an anti-foaming agent which makes small bubbles turn into large bubbles. In humans, this allows them to be burped out. Horses can’t burp, so it doesn’t help them.

Simethicone does not reduce the quantity of gas in the digestive tract, it only increases the rate at which it exits the body, and is ineffective in the intestine. That’s why it doesn’t work on horses, unless they’re suffering from gas in the stomach exclusively, and doesn’t work on human gas pain outside the stomach.

Aside from buscopan and jogging, I find walking up and down steep hills helps gas colics too.

[Horsence]

You know. I’ve never had a horse colic, they have grass almost 24/7 except in winter, they have free choice of 2nd cut good quality hay 24/7 if I do keep them in its at night or in the winter. They only get grain if I feel their weight is not what is should be OR twice a day in winter because they don’t have grass. But as long as my horses have enough grass they only get hay in stalls. Do you people not understand the actual biology of horses. They MUST have food in their stomach all the time. If a horse has an empty stomach they get sick. Colic! Duh! If your depriving your horse of food no wonder it’s colicy… Your making your horse sick. Grass is the absolute best thing for horses. Mine are absolute perfect weight, all of them and I have 4 totally different types of horses. A quarter horse, Paso Fino, thoroughbred and a Percheron. They are very healthy. Never ever had an issue except an abscess. Give you horse as much grass as possible, no grass? Hay then. All the time. Hay twice a day really?.. If you don’t have the acreage to give your horses grass at the very least 6 months out of the year, u need to move or find a different barn. Mine are on grass alone from April thru November I start to feed because the grass simply isn’t growing anymore. As soon as they have grass I cut down feed to once a day then none. They are very healthy and look good. Everyone tells me so I know I’m doing something right. It’s the same concept as if u don’t have a fence or a shed you can’t have a horse! So if you don’t have enough grass for your horses for at least 6 or 7 months you don’t have the right facility for a horse period. In nature, they eat 24/7 all the time. Mainly grass. Why do people thing their bodies are OK with all this grain & only giving them food 3 times a day like us? They are nothing like us. Horses stomachs are meant to ALWAYS have food in them. You are making them sick. Not the grass. When I saw that u said that grass made them sick, too much grass I was astounded at the ignorance and complete lack of common sense.

[Snowdenfarm]

@Horsence

When I saw that u said that grass made them sick, too much grass I was astounded at the ignorance and complete lack of common sense.

I was agreeing with you, though wishing you had put it in a bit friendlier, more supportive tone, until this last sentence. The grasses we grow now, combined with restricting our horses’ ability to roam 20 miles a day, make it possible – and in fact epidemic – that grass makes our horses sick. There is more sugar/starch than they can digest and it gets passed to the hind gut where gas, diarrhea and metabolic disorders including founder are the result.

[maunder]

@Horsence

You know. I’ve never had a horse colic, they have grass almost 24/7 except in winter, they have free choice of 2nd cut good quality hay 24/7 if I do keep them in its at night or in the winter. They only get grain if I feel their weight is not what is should be OR twice a day in winter because they don’t have grass. But as long as my horses have enough grass they only get hay in stalls. Do you people not understand the actual biology of horses. They MUST have food in their stomach all the time. If a horse has an empty stomach they get sick. Colic! Duh! If your depriving your horse of food no wonder it’s colicy… Your making your horse sick. Grass is the absolute best thing for horses. Mine are absolute perfect weight, all of them and I have 4 totally different types of horses. A quarter horse, Paso Fino, thoroughbred and a Percheron. They are very healthy. Never ever had an issue except an abscess. Give you horse as much grass as possible, no grass? Hay then. All the time. Hay twice a day really?.. If you don’t have the acreage to give your horses grass at the very least 6 months out of the year, u need to move or find a different barn. Mine are on grass alone from April thru November I start to feed because the grass simply isn’t growing anymore. As soon as they have grass I cut down feed to once a day then none. They are very healthy and look good. Everyone tells me so I know I’m doing something right. It’s the same concept as if u don’t have a fence or a shed you can’t have a horse! So if you don’t have enough grass for your horses for at least 6 or 7 months you don’t have the right facility for a horse period. In nature, they eat 24/7 all the time. Mainly grass. Why do people thing their bodies are OK with all this grain & only giving them food 3 times a day like us? They are nothing like us. Horses stomachs are meant to ALWAYS have food in them. You are making them sick. Not the grass. When I saw that u said that grass made them sick, too much grass I was astounded at the ignorance and complete lack of common sense.

You brought up a zombie thread to go after people? How very odd.

A person can do all the right things and still have a horse colic, Horsence. I’m glad that you’ve never experienced it.

[JB]

@Horsence

You know. I’ve never had a horse colic, they have grass almost 24/7 except in winter, they have free choice of 2nd cut good quality hay 24/7 if I do keep them in its at night or in the winter. They only get grain if I feel their weight is not what is should be OR twice a day in winter because they don’t have grass. But as long as my horses have enough grass they only get hay in stalls. Do you people not understand the actual biology of horses. They MUST have food in their stomach all the time. If a horse has an empty stomach they get sick. Colic! Duh! If your depriving your horse of food no wonder it’s colicy… Your making your horse sick. Grass is the absolute best thing for horses. Mine are absolute perfect weight, all of them and I have 4 totally different types of horses. A quarter horse, Paso Fino, thoroughbred and a Percheron. They are very healthy. Never ever had an issue except an abscess. Give you horse as much grass as possible, no grass? Hay then. All the time. Hay twice a day really?.. If you don’t have the acreage to give your horses grass at the very least 6 months out of the year, u need to move or find a different barn. Mine are on grass alone from April thru November I start to feed because the grass simply isn’t growing anymore. As soon as they have grass I cut down feed to once a day then none. They are very healthy and look good. Everyone tells me so I know I’m doing something right. It’s the same concept as if u don’t have a fence or a shed you can’t have a horse! So if you don’t have enough grass for your horses for at least 6 or 7 months you don’t have the right facility for a horse period. In nature, they eat 24/7 all the time. Mainly grass. Why do people thing their bodies are OK with all this grain & only giving them food 3 times a day like us? They are nothing like us. Horses stomachs are meant to ALWAYS have food in them. You are making them sick. Not the grass. When I saw that u said that grass made them sick, too much grass I was astounded at the ignorance and complete lack of common sense.

I can’t help but think you didn’t even read this thread, or read it so badly you didn’t comprehend it.

You also don’t have a good understanding of how horses eat. They are most certainly not eating 24x7 all the time. Not even in the wild.

[Ghazzu]

“You know. I’ve never had a horse colic”.

Either you have had exceptional luck, or you have not had horses for any significant length of time.
It is entirely possible to do everything “right” and still lose a horse to gastrointestinal disorders.
If you believe otherwise, you are a fool.

[tazycat]

@Horsence

You know. I’ve never had a horse colic, they have grass almost 24/7 except in winter, they have free choice of 2nd cut good quality hay 24/7 if I do keep them in its at night or in the winter. They only get grain if I feel their weight is not what is should be OR twice a day in winter because they don’t have grass. But as long as my horses have enough grass they only get hay in stalls. Do you people not understand the actual biology of horses. They MUST have food in their stomach all the time. If a horse has an empty stomach they get sick. Colic! Duh! If your depriving your horse of food no wonder it’s colicy… Your making your horse sick. Grass is the absolute best thing for horses. Mine are absolute perfect weight, all of them and I have 4 totally different types of horses. A quarter horse, Paso Fino, thoroughbred and a Percheron. They are very healthy. Never ever had an issue except an abscess. Give you horse as much grass as possible, no grass? Hay then. All the time. Hay twice a day really?.. If you don’t have the acreage to give your horses grass at the very least 6 months out of the year, u need to move or find a different barn. Mine are on grass alone from April thru November I start to feed because the grass simply isn’t growing anymore. As soon as they have grass I cut down feed to once a day then none. They are very healthy and look good. Everyone tells me so I know I’m doing something right. It’s the same concept as if u don’t have a fence or a shed you can’t have a horse! So if you don’t have enough grass for your horses for at least 6 or 7 months you don’t have the right facility for a horse period. In nature, they eat 24/7 all the time. Mainly grass. Why do people thing their bodies are OK with all this grain & only giving them food 3 times a day like us? They are nothing like us. Horses stomachs are meant to ALWAYS have food in them. You are making them sick. Not the grass. When I saw that u said that grass made them sick, too much grass I was astounded at the ignorance and complete lack of common sense.

If an empty stomach makes a horse sick. Guess I better inform my gelding of that. Since he more then likely has an empty stomach while being worked 6 plus hours a day.

No they don’t eat 24 hours a day probably closer to 18 hours a day. Horse’s colic even with grass or pasture available 24/7. Some horses can’t be on pasture because of metabolic issues. Some can’t have unlimited hay for same reason. Metabolic horses will founder if on pasture.

My guess is you haven’t owned horses long enough to have a colic.

[BlueDrifter]

well, if anyone does have a gas colic - or not sure what colic they have, or if they even think they have a colic – try EquiSpazz. It is essentially a syringe of Gas-X. It won’t mask any underlying issues if it is not a gas colic, and won’t hurt if it’s not a colic a all.

[quietann]

I kind of suspect our new arrival is a bot…

As for “never had a horse colic” … unless you are watching them 24/7, there’s no way to know that. One of my old vets suspected that there are a lot of mild colics at night, that are over by the time anyone arrives in the morning. He thought the same about horses getting cast in their stalls. BTW this does not mean he would not treat a colic in the middle of the night! They are so fragile in some ways, but so tough in other ways!