George Morris on the SS list

[vineyridge]

@NotaPonyDoc

Science already knows why… if he’s actually been exposed and isn’t infected with HIV, then he’s an HIV elite controller. Meaning he can suppress HIV viral loads without antiretroviral therapies.

And yes, science is already harvesting antibodies from elite controllers to work on vaccines for other HIV patients. There’s like a 0.3% chance of being an elite controller or 1 in 300, it’s not too special…

This is very interesting information. If the innate ability to control the HIV virus is that common, and if the same situation exists with other diseases, it would explain why diseases become so much less virulent with time after they enter a new population, and the immune people’s descendants begin to dominate the population because the non-immune people have been killed off by the disease…

[atl_hunter]

@TheMoo

That’s all well and good but you are missing the piece of positional authority. So if it was a random person of the legal age at the time, yeah side eye. But students? Working students? That’s what gets conveniently left out of these statements.

My specific question was about jurisdiction - who gets to decide what age of consent is - the state or the federal government REGARDLESS of the situation. Does the Federal government have the right to state an age of consent or did they overstep? That is my question, which has already been answered as the courts will need to decide.

[hut-ho78]

[quote="“atl_hunter,post:2203,topic:460643”]

@cloudyandcallie

Thank you - this is what I was trying to understand. Who gets to decide the actual age? SS or the State? Hopefully he will utilize the court system and we will all have some clarity as to whether age of consent is a state’s right or a federal one, and what the age should actually be. I’m all for one age, 18, for the entire nation. It would definitely make it clear and consistent. It’s not like 18 year olds can vote and you need to be 18 to enlist.

SafeSport as a federal law uses the federal definition of minor. State law can set what it will. So if SafeSport finds a violation of SafeSport and finds it may be local or federal criminal act, then SafeSport is required to report and local LE can act or not according to local law and inclination.

[dannyboy]

@LexInVA VA

I agree with you, especially about the cra-zee supporters.

Also, if I were GM, I might hire a taster for my food at this point. I remember the Chicago era quite well. He’s got dirt that goes back well beyond 30 years on just about everyone. I frankly don’t believe that Epstein’s guards just happened to be asleep when he decided to hang himself, for example. I hope SS is prepared for the tremendous pressure that might come into play.

What I’m after is the source of that quote about threatening people, or their families, or bringing others down with him. I can’t seem to find an original source.

[Max123]

@aredhel

I agree with Palm Beach that a 5 day window is too short. Not everyone is connected 24/7/365. I regularly go on trips that last longer than 5 days where I have little or no contact with the outside world. And there’s always the possibility of the person being ill and in a hospital. A 30 day window to file an intent to appeal would seem more reasonable.

Again - you get 5 days to respond to inform Safe Sport you want to appeal. You DO NOT have to present your entire case within 5 days. Trust me they get plenty of time and get extensions to file.

So the 5 days is just to respond and say whether you want an appeal or not.

[dannyboy]

@ atl_hunter But as far as SS is concerned, the actual age of consent doesn’t matter. They get to define a “child” as 18 because that’s what the rules say and all they’re doing is tossing someone out of a club, remember?

If there’s a civil or legal suit arising out of something SS turns up, then the legal age of consent will matter. At least that’s my understanding.

[NoSuchPerson]

@dannyboy

What I’m after is the source of that quote about threatening people, or their families, or bringing others down with him. I can’t seem to find an original source.

I believe the quote about threatening family members it was in a Facebook post that someone linked to in this thread. Maybe a post by the woman with several last names, about whom someone here subsequently asked that the names be “unpacked?” Sorry, that’s the best I can recall. Maybe that hint will jog someone else’s memory as to the name.

[ladyj79]

I think then it goes back to issues of power/authority rather than age. Regardless of whether 14 is a minor in state x, teacher is still getting fired for having sexual contact with them. This isn’t merely about age, that is just one element.

[alicen]

[quote="“atl_hunter,post:2203,topic:460643”]

@cloudyandcallie

It’s not like 18 year olds can vote and you need to be 18 to enlist.

18 yr olds can vote - 26th amendment.

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

It occurs to me when I read the GHM apologists reactions to his banning :
its not that they believe in him,

it is all about their own perceptions and preserving their egos.

If you had to accept the possibility that he is actually guilty then you’d have to ask yourself why you would even consider supporting him after what you know about his character and his morals (If he had any which it has been proved that he doesn’t. )

Why would you expose your children to such a person?
Why would you let people around you , who trust your judgement, expose their children to such a person?

What does it say about your own character that you make excuses for his depravity?

1. it was a long time ago, so it doesn’t matter.
2. Maybe they liked it , so it doesn’t matter.
3. Well, they got what they wanted., so doesn’t matter.
4. Well, he didn’t go after my kids, so it doesn’t matter.
5. Well, I didn’t see anything, so it doesn’t matter.
6. Well, I’m sure he didn’t do it, cause he smiled at me when I took a picture , he signed his book for me so he must be a nice guy., so it doesn’t matter.
7. Well, maybe he did do it, but if he says he’s sorry then it’s all good and it doesn’t matter.
8. Well, I got to survive and if I say anything, I’ll never show again, so sorry, it doesnt matter.

They don’t care about what he did or didn’t do;,

They don’t want their judgement or their character questioned, and they do not want to admit they averted their eyes when they found out what he was doing. They didn’t want to know, because then ya know, they might have had to actually say something.

I get there are consequences from saying something, and the price would be very high.
Too high for some.

But ya know, not showing or gasp, not going to the Olympics ain’t the end of the world as we know it.

Protecting children from predators: Priceless.

Own personal anecdote.

I was at a local horse show and helping out at the in gate. A spectator came up to me and a local trainer was standing at the gate watching a student make their round.

Spectator to me: “Trainer X is a perv”.
Me.: “Um, really?”( I have no idea what to say. Never seen her before.)
Spec: Yes. He likes teenage girls. And it’s a shame. He’s married and has a baby."
Me: “” (I don’t remember what I said.)

Now, this was way before Safe Sport.
I had no proof. I didn’t see anything. I had seen this trainer around and spoke briefly about the weather.
I had no idea who the woman was and why she would tell me such a thing.
If it was true, then she should be telling the police, not someone like myself who had no authority in the matter.
if it was false, then it was wicked of her to try and slander someone who was trying to make a living.

I didn’t tell anyone what she said to me. It may have been true but I had zero proof. Nothing that ever stand up in a court of law.

[hut-ho78]

@dannyboy

@ atl_hunter But as far as SS is concerned, the actual age of consent doesn’t matter. They get to define a “child” as 18 because that’s what the rules say and all they’re doing is tossing someone out of a club, remember?

If there’s a civil or legal suit arising out of something SS turns up, then the legal age of consent will matter. At least that’s my understanding.

I haven’t seen any threats and have read through this, Rob Gage, and others. There is a 2012 post on tapatalk that was linked earlier on this string about a bunch of gossip and hearsay about an earlier investigation and it said he was alleged to say if they go after him that he is talking everyone down with him. The other was a fb post by an individual who took it down and said something about her former in-laws were threatened but that was about someone else the way I read it. Other than this two, I haven’t seen anything and don’t see either as “threats.” Well one comment saying there are threats with no backup or explanation.

[arnikalm]

@IdahoRider

They most often DON’T start with coercion and shame. That doesn’t come until much later. These pedophiles start grooming their victims by making them feel special. It is a fact that many (perhaps even most?) survivors of long term sexual abuse had families that were dysfunctional to varying degrees. That dysfunction opened the child up to responding to being made to feel special in a very particular way. The pedophile can smell the “right” conditions a mile away.

That is part of the grooming process. Pedophiles always have feelers out, probing and testing, evaluating. When a child’s circumstances tick the boxes, the process becomes more targeted to that particular child. Is the family sufficiently distracted with divorce, illness, substance abuse, whatever? Is the child open to being singled out from their peers? Does the child fit the physical profile the pedophile wants?

Believe me, if a pedophile’s MO was to drag a child into a dark room and molest them the first time they met? The outcomes would be different. The vast majority don’t operate that way. They pick their victims carefully. They carefully construct and guide the situation until eventually they are able to frame the sexual contact as an extension of how important that child is, how loved and protected they are by the abuser.

The coercion and shaming doesn’t start until the abuser starts to feel control of the situation slipping a little. And most often the “go to” method is shaming the victim. Nobody will believe you. You wanted me to touch you. You will get in trouble. Everyone will know you’re a slut, know that you’re a fag. You won’t be special anymore. Pick your poison. And then they move on. The child has aged out of the pedophile’s desired demographic. They get caught just enough for people to know that something “happened”, but nobody wants to know what and they just want to bury it and walk away. Whatever. Things shift and another child is targeted and the grooming starts all over again.

Keep in mind that the pedophile has hidden in plain sight. Larry Nassar, “I am doing a medical procedure. Only I can fix your child”. George Morris, “Your child has talent and I can make it happen for them”. My step-father, “God has called me to help this broken family and the daughter needs extra support and caring”.

These people, for the most part, aren’t hiding their victims in the basement, behind a secret door. They marry our drug addled mothers. They dangle health and continued competition in front of children and parents. They insinuate that with extra “access” and training the Olympics is within reach.

These monsters are right here, living in plain sight. They aren’t driving up in an unfamiliar car and asking us if we want to help them find their lost puppy. They are the team doctor. They are the t-ball coach. They teach Sunday school. They are a best friend’s parent. They are a legend in the sport we love. They eat dinner at our own kitchen table and wait until everyone is asleep. They are a fixture in our lives. They don’t have to lure us. They are already in our lives.

They minimize. They minimize. Every. Single. Day. They say their medical treatment is misunderstood. They say they were only trying to build on a talented rider. They say they were only checking to make sure a child was covered on a cold night.

They groom us. They twist the world to make it look a certain way. Up is down and down is up. And they scare the shit out of us for the rest of our lives.

And even though we are scared, and ashamed, we step forward and speak our truth. Some of us can say it and never waver again from those words being heard out loud. Some of us need to speak it and then take it back because the fear in our own minds is so overwhelming it might be another thirty years before we can speak the truth again. Some of us never say anything. Some of us use drugs and drink. Some of us become so anxiety ridden that we push ourselves to never, ever make a mistake about anything. Some of us turn around and abuse others. None of that changes the fact that we were hurt in an irreparable way when we were young and vulnerable.

“F” George Morris. At this point the allegations have been investigated. He doesn’t deserve to automatically be given the benefit of even more doubt. I am going to stand with the people who were strong enough to insist that they be heard. At last. Those are my people. They are my tribe.
Sheilah

I’m so sorry you went through that trauma. I applaud you for having the strength to speak up about it. What you’ve described is exactly the process that every single girl or woman I’ve dealt with has said happened to her. Whether it was a poor child who was given gifts, clothes, hair and nail treatments "because she was special " then asked to "help her boyfriend " by “being nice” to his friends, or one from a dysfunctional family looking for anyone to give her validation, the M.O. never changed. The threats don’t start until the victim tries to leave.

[Tigre_Horse]

@poltroon

So true. But people like you insisting that the evidence can’t possibly exist or even if it does, how can it matter 50 years later, are causing people like me to dig up, recall, and repeat these inconvenient facts that explain in detail that it does matter, that it’s unlikely that the SafeSport investigators walked into this buzzsaw on a whim and without solid evidence, and it’s making more people speak out about the things they know and put the pieces together.

It matters to survivors. I did not suffer abuse as a child. I was raped by a home intruder as an adult, almost 30 years ago - and it might as well have been yesterday. If you think another 20 years will make any bit of difference - you’d be dead wrong. The lack of compassion for victims/survivors is just astounding to me.

And how anyone can argue that a 13-year-old is old enough to give consent - insert Catholic priest instead of GM - still feel the same way?? Didn’t think so . . . .

[roseymare]

COTH must think I am quite the surgeon! My ads are for replacement mitral valves.

[greysfordays]

I got invited to the ISWG group so while I’m not comfortable joining, I am comfortable spying (shady, I know).

What I find striking is that virtually all of the posts of people talking about his helping them at Hunterdon, as a groom or trainer or rider whatever, they are all women.

There’s a lady who says she took lessons from George and never once did he do anything untoward. A (subsequently banned) person politely points out that George didn’t swing that way. The next two comments furiously claim that is “UNCALLED FOR” and that her statement “doesn’t have any baring on this conversation”. :uhoh:

When I read that, I feel like ok, I get why my telling people to read what’s in the Safe Sport code isn’t working. People are just not in a headspace to accept new information.

My favorite post is a lady who would bring a rider to Hunterdon for lessons and spent lots of time taking notes of his lessons until he finally brought her into the ring to set jumps and learn from him from the ground. Great.

Lots of other women chime in that his teaching at Hunterdon was central to their training and the last comment is “Just like Paul Valliere”. ok dokee then. :no:

[RainWeasley]

@Tigre Horse

It matters to survivors. I did not suffer abuse as a child. I was raped by a home intruder as an adult, almost 30 years ago - and it might as well have been yesterday. If you think another 20 years will make any bit of difference - you’d be dead wrong. The lack of compassion for victims/survivors is just astounding to me.
.

Jesus, that is terrifying. I can’t even imagine.

[Tigre_Horse]

@RainWeasley

Jesus, that is terrifying. I can’t even imagine.

I won’t lie - it was. It’s the stuff of nightmares. But, I lived and it made me who I am today. I’ve never told my now adult daughter - I’ve never, ever wanted her to fear sleeping in her own bed, or traveling by herself. She’s never understood why I have to sleep so I can see at least one exit, have a dog (hate being alone at night) and so many other, what she considers weird little “quirks” mom has . . . the attack happened the year before I started dating/married her dad. I was better while he was alive, had to beat back a lot of demons again when I lost him 7 years ago. But, that’s life - one day at time, one foot in front of the other . . . and time in the saddle - that’s what really saved me that first year, the barn was the only place I felt safe.

[alicen]

@dannyboy

What I’m after is the source of that quote about threatening people, or their families, or bringing others down with him. I can’t seem to find an original source.

I think that was on The Chronicle of the Horse facebook page, fairly early on, but I can’t find it now. If you have the time, 738 comments, here you go: https://www.facebook.com/search/top/…epa=SEARCH_BOX

eta: or it was early ISFG facebook.

[YankeeDuchess]

@ladyj79

Especially since he had been aware of the investigation for over a year, long enough to threaten potential witnesses and their families.

I assume that threatening witnesses itself is a pretty serious SafeSport violation.

[Jaegermonster]

@greysfordays

I got invited to the ISWG group so while I’m not comfortable joining, I am comfortable spying (shady, I know).

What I find striking is that virtually all of the posts of people talking about his helping them at Hunterdon, as a groom or trainer or rider whatever, they are all women.

There’s a lady who says she took lessons from George and never once did he do anything untoward. A (subsequently banned) person politely points out that George didn’t swing that way. The next two comments furiously claim that is “UNCALLED FOR” and that her statement “doesn’t have any baring on this conversation”. :uhoh:

When I read that, I feel like ok, I get why my telling people to read what’s in the Safe Sport code isn’t working. People are just not in a headspace to accept new information.

My favorite post is a lady who would bring a rider to Hunterdon for lessons and spent lots of time taking notes of his lessons until he finally brought her into the ring to set jumps and learn from him from the ground. Great.

Lots of other women chime in that his teaching at Hunterdon was central to their training and the last comment is “Just like Paul Valliere”. ok dokee then. :no:

That was me who posted about which way the pendulum swings, as it were.
and I wasnt banned. I was seeing what the page was all about and left on my own.
A few months back during another heated discussion on fb about something else to do with SS I posted something along the lines of I wondered when anyone would investigate GHM, and maybe Frank Madden and some others. Of course I was vilified then too.

does anyone know when GHMs appeal has to be filed?