George Morris on the SS list

[MissCoco]

@ladyj79

@MissCoco this wasn’t the temporary measures pending investigation. George was not named publicly until the investigation was concluded and ban was handed down. He is currently appealing the formal findings and/or suspension

Thanks for the clarification, I was more asking as a general question: how does the SafeSport center make the decison of when to use the temporary/interim suspensions vs not?

541hunter pointed me to the relevant pages in the safesport code, and you also clarified that just now ( I am too slow to keep up with this thread)

[rollingabout]

@chisamba

You dont understand do you. Safe sport only does permanent ineligible once it has established the report is valid enough to stand up to scrutiny.

My praise for the courage of a survivor is even more intense in view of your attitude. After William’s and Gage, they know they are going to be attacked and victim blamed. Esp when the abuser is someone with the status of GM makes it much more courageous.

Spare me the drama. I’ll decide when I see solid evidence.

[Midge]

@evilc123

Just a clarification for everyone calling this a “suspension”: it is actually a lifetime ban, not a suspension. The PH article is much more descriptive about the process and the repercussions:

https://practicalhorsemanmag.com/news/george-morris-faces-ban

I find it interesting that this article states the violation was '68 to '72, when it appears only Morris’s statement said that.

[ladyj79]

@rollingabout

Spare me the drama. I’ll decide when I see solid evidence.

Perfectly illustrating again the need for safe sport

[Midge]

@rollingabout

Spare me the drama. I’ll decide when I see solid evidence.

Except we don’t get to see the evidence. The investigator sees the evidence. The two sides see the evidence.

[YankeeDuchess]

@TooManyBays

Anyone calling GM a pedophile is jumping the gun here. There are a plethora of things that can get you banned by safesport that have nothing to do with sex with young children. The training goes through them, better than the documentation put out by SS, which is severely lacking.
I would be more inclined to say that he is banned because of his ongoing bullying, which is a safesport violation!

Except that the basis of the ban was stated as “sexual misconduct involving minors” , i.e. sex with young children.

[rollingabout]

@snaffle1987

this isn’t a court system. He is banned from a private club/organization and business dealings involving said organization. You are not born with God given rights to be a member of any organization you so-choose. He is not banned from having an equine business or working with riders or owning horses. He is banned from any direct involvement with a private club. You can be kicked from any club at any time with no legal ramifications.

Tell that to the Boy Scouts.

[jmp1993]

@rollingabout

Spare me the drama. I’ll decide when I see solid evidence.

Well luckily it’s not up to you to decide.

EDIT: Also, what would you consider “solid” evidence to be? An account by a victim that was then denied by the accused? Would you require one or 10 witnesses? Would you insist on a polygraph test? Would you only trust someone who was successful? Or would you not trust someone who is successful because they’re just “jealous” that GM is “better” than them? Would you only trust someone who was above the age of consent at that time because they’re adults and children tell stories? See - this is why it is not your place to demand or expect evidence. All you see is the permanent suspension - you don’t see the detailed investigation. The assumption might be it happened overnight but believe me this took months if not years. There is evidence - even if it’s not satisfactory to you.

[RockingJ]

@Crashing Boar

Here are some questions to ponder about the larger societal context–the petri dish in which all this squirms:

(1) In an age when physical strength and prowess is completely unnecessary to the making of an upscale living (we’re pretty much all pixel-pushers now), WHY does “sport” occupy a plane of social importance unseen since ancient Sparta? Why do we pour unholy amounts of money into “winning” absolutely nothing useful at any cost?

(2) Who kicked a ball into whose goal, who struck out, who had a rail in what obscure class at some obscure show, all these are things that (a) produce no result in the real world whatsoever beyond momentary advertising revenue and (b) won’t be remembered 3 days from now except by paid statisticians and obsessed fanatics (derivation of “fan”). Why do we place more value on utterly useless striving after contrived, arbitrary and ultimately pointless “goals” than we do the intellectual and social capital that actually moves the human race’s progress forward? I don’t see patent applications occupying 30 pages of the daily paper like “sports” does.

(3) If “sport” is thought to be a societal good for “building character,” etc., why have we allowed it to be corrupted by money to the point where its participants get a “pass” on anti-social behavior that in any other context would get one instantly fired? Not only the pervy coaches, but how about football players whose domestic violence, weapons charges, larcenies, etc. are winked at and the story quickly killed in the press?

(4) Why do we hold such people up as “role models” for youth when in fact their morals are nonexistent, their methods beyond questionable, their reputations dubious, their substance abuse public knowledge, and the entire point of what they do completely irrelevant outside their tiny-little-bubble “sport” enclaves? Why are they “important?”

(5) Why do we put our kids through this crucible to begin with? Just imagine if we spent the time and money supporting cutting-edge academics (STEM) that we pour into school and college “athletic” programs. And BTW, you only hear about the successes, never the lifetime of crippling pain for many, that those mills produce. Maybe we’ve reached an age where all this has jumped the shark, eh?

Maybe we just ought to let kids be kids, and have low-key fun playing with ponies . . .

Sports matter because they change lives and push human limits - in the same way that STEM gets us to the moon, sports also provide valuable research for moving us forward. Additionally, anything that inspires fitness to me is a good thing, and seeing someone at the top of their game might inspire kids and adults to get out there and try - because they can and because they want to - the best reasons to do anything (that doesn’t cause harm).

Should we do better? Yes. We should stop putting up with bad/harmful/illegal behavior and hold people to higher standards, especially those who are in positions of power and have great influence.

[skydy]

@Midge

I find it interesting that this article states the violation was '68 to '72, when it appears only Morris’s statement said that.

The sentence was in quotes.

[poltroon]

Robert Dover wrote:

"I’ve known George since I was a kid myself and actually met Robert Ross at Hunterdon in 1988 when Robert was 22. He was there for his second time for a week-long training session and George was kind enough to give him a room to stay in. Robert was and still is very handsome but asked if George was ever inappropriate with him either time he was there, he will tell you NEVER. …

Aside from the rather gross and inappropriate use of the adjective “handsome” here, this is basically equivalent to saying Barney Ward and Paul Valliere surely didn’t kill any horses because there were still live horses left in their barns.

[ladyj79]

@rollingabout

Tell that to the Boy Scouts.

Um are you equating discriminating against someone being gay/female with being a sexual predator??? Awesome. Not crazy at all.

[rollingabout]

@Tiramit

A recurring theme within the global GM discussion that stands out in flashing marquee lights is the “we all knew about it” comments. The “whispers” and “open rumors” and “not-so-secret secret” comments.

Let’s let that sink in for a moment. An entire community (and its periphery) gossiped about it. For DECADES. An entire community that did nothing to confirm the rumors and, if they were true, help the victims and prevent future victims.

If Nassar hadn’t been caught and Congress hadn’t created SafeSport, would the riding community still be snickering about GM over beers or exchanging knowing glances across the aisle? Probably.

I’m not going to come out all guns a-blazing against GM at this stage. It’s not from a lack of knowledge about SS or because I don’t believe he could have done it. I’ve read the SS process and understand they’ve determined there’s a reason to investigate the claim. I also understand that he is in the appeal process and that there is a chance the ruling could be overturned.

Since I’m not part of the investigation process and privy to the case’s details, I’ll wait until the final verdict before issuing a personal ruling.

What I do know is that I’ve ridden with the man multiple times. He’s tough, yes. He sometimes makes harsh comments and can bully people who aren’t all-in and trying. He can also issue amazing praise and support. The results of his work have been proven. He’s very good at his job. That hasn’t stopped me with associating him with tough military generals in my mind.

I’d hate for this claim to be true, but there’s a chance it is. Hopefully we’ll be given a clear answer at some point.

I agree with you 100 %. Great post!

[rollingabout]

@ladyj79

Perfectly illustrating again the need for safe sport

Again. Spare the drama. If he’s guilty then he’s guilty and should be banned. If he’s guilty then all those who knew and didn’t report should be banned as well. If he’s innocent, well he deserves an apology.

Getting all emotional over an accusation isn’t going to help.

[Mardi]

@Jealoushe

OK now seeing RDs post…gross. What a willfully niave man. Every sentance just makes it worse.

RD is definitely not naive. He knows exactly where the skeletons are buried, and the politics involved.
Politics as related to USEF, USET and personal.

[ladyj79]

@rollingabout

Again. Spare the drama. If he’s guilty then he’s guilty and should be banned. If he’s guilty then all those who knew and didn’t report should be banned as well. If he’s innocent, well he deserves an apology.

Getting all emotional over an accusation isn’t going to help.

He has been banned. That is what we are discussing.

[caffeinated]

@rollingabout

Again. Spare the drama. If he’s guilty then he’s guilty and should be banned. If he’s guilty then all those who knew and didn’t report should be banned as well. If he’s innocent, well he deserves an apology.

Getting all emotional over an accusation isn’t going to help.

It’s not an “accusation” but a whole investigation.

[specifiedcupcake]

@Midge

I find it interesting that this article states the violation was '68 to '72, when it appears only Morris’s statement said that.

Because the “one incident 50 years ago” is a carefully crafted marketing narrative. Just like RG’s supporters kept yelling the story about him having a relationship in his 20’s with a 17 year old before HR and others stepped up and spoke publicly.

I’m incredibly interested in the legal proceedings - no doubt he can and will overturn a negligent/unfair decision (just like Glefke and Farmer did in actual court for the drug thing) - as well as the promised story from the journalist.

[rollingabout]

@jmp1993

Well luckily it’s not up to you to decide.

EDIT: Also, what would you consider “solid” evidence to be? An account by a victim that was then denied by the accused? Would you require one or 10 witnesses? Would you insist on a polygraph test? Would you only trust someone who was successful? Or would you not trust someone who is successful because they’re just “jealous” that GM is “better” than them? Would you only trust someone who was above the age of consent at that time because they’re adults and children tell stories? See - this is why it is not your place to demand or expect evidence. All you see is the permanent suspension - you don’t see the detailed investigation. The assumption might be it happened overnight but believe me this took months if not years. There is evidence - even if it’s not satisfactory to you.

If the evidence shows he’s guilty then he should stay banned. Those who didn’t report it and knew are guilty as well. You’re way too emotional about this. Think logically.

What if he’s innocent?

I trust evidence. I’m a scientist therefore think logically and not emotionally.

[Silk]

@anotherera

Everything that you post seems always to be about YOU! I’m probably old enough to be either your mother or your grandmother, and yes, people DID come out in the 60’s. I had a ton of male equestrian friends who were gay in the 60’s, and they were out and proud. Unfortunately due to the Aids epidemic, few of them are still alive.

People did not so much as “come out” as much as they engaged in polyamorous relationships. By the 80’s it was more common to come out, but during the 60’s and 70’s, in most settings, it was not all that common. There is a large population of people born in that era who are the product of a gay parent who got married either as a cover or because it was expected. I have personal experience with this