And we have a CoTH spokesperson. Sorry we didn’t all fall in line??? 
Please publish your marching orders, but don’t expect too many rational subscribers. 😊
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it’s a joke not a… don’t take it so hard? Guess you think SS should follow criminal procedures. Your entitled to that. Still think it’s misguided.
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Don’t “guess you think …” for other people and this would be a much more productive discussion (just sayin’)
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During the exchange, I thought it was a little strange that the one poster would pop in with slightly different names, but understood it was the same person. I wrote some posts defending her, a couple of which she thanked me for. Apparently, my expressing agreement with her, and her expressing thanks, led these super sleuths to deduce that I was another alter.
So you should be careful about defending her, lest people accuse you of being another alter.
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It is not as one sided as people say. During the investigation, the accused can present whatever evidence they want, such as written, sworn character statements, reports from forensic psychologists. The accused gets to have an advisor with them when interviewed by an investigator, but the advisor/attorney is not supposed to actively participate.
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Hey Everyone - sorry that I haven’t responded in a bit! I’ve been quite busy recently but I’m catching up on the thread now and I’ll try and answer as many questions as possible ASAP 
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It would be the highlight of my day. 😉
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Do you have something to add to the conversation or are you here for the peanut gallery? Funny how I express an opinion and y’all can’t think of a counter argument with proof to change my mind. Lawdy
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I’m wondering if you, Denali6298, really need anyone else here for the conversation. You’ve repeated your position into oblivion (beginning on page one), misconstrued other peoples thoughts, and been so obtuse in general, that it’s a wonder anyone is left responding.
What is your argument exactly? It’s hard to understand besides the whole crazy, “then teach your sons not to rape girls” blathering of earlier today.
The point is that there are people offering thoughtful ideas about how to make SafeSport stronger, and you’re so obsessed that you can’t see the forest for the trees.
Lighten up, sit back, listen a little. I’ve had to do it, and believe me, I’ve learned a lot.
Peace … truly.
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For what it’s worth I disagree with your analogy as well, for a couple of reasons. First of all, getting “your day in court” is not what SafeSport is about, nor is it how it operates. My understanding is that the appeal isn’t necessarily a review of all the evidence (or essentially a trial, in your analogy) but rather an examination whether procedures were followed correctly.
Most importantly I disagree with your contention that the sanction is equivalent to charges being laid, and that the accused is innocent until after the appeal. That’s not the case. The ruling and the sanctions are equivalent to a determination of guilt. Period. The investigative body (the judge, in your analogy) reviewed all the evidence, weighed what the claimant, the defendant and the witnesses had to say, and issued their verdict.
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Thanks, Roser. I wasn’t trying to confuse anyone–I actually didn’t realize my devices had separate log-ins, until someone pointed it out. My hospitalization and surgery last year required an abrupt switch from my desktop (I couldn’t go upstairs) to my laptop, so I think they ended up with different default log-ins. I can be a good sport about a little good-natured ribbing-- it is the internet, after all!
I’m not surprised you could tell the “Mom” i.d.s were both me! I’m not a very conniving person. Those who have read my posts know that I have a daughter who rides (I no longer ride myself), and I’m an attorney working in the field of elder abuse. I share real facts about myself and, in discussions like this, I try to reason things out carefully and give fair consideration to different perspectives.
I really don’t know who Yankee Duchess is, though I suspect I would love to know her! I regret that suspicion has been cast on her by my own poor internet practices!
I’m grateful to all the people who are thinking hard about these issues, sharing thoughts, and engaging on a real intellectual level. It is such a pleasure to be reminded of the challenging discussions I recall from law school and grad school. As for those whose contribution has remained at the level of calling people “morons” and other sniping… thank you for reminding us how much we treasure the more thoughtful exchanges!
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I didn’t realize you were posting under two screen names. I know that there are people who do that purposefully, but I am never the first to notice. ( I have noticed some banned people that have come back under a different name. Their sentence structure, grammar and syntax gives them away.)
I can understand how your “two logins” situation happened.
I don’t agree with some of your opinions, but I don’t believe you intended to deceive anyone.
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This is an intelligent argument for the standard of evidence being by a preponderance of the evidence and not beyond a reasonable doubt. As SafeSport currently has.
In my analogy, the SafeSport investigation is NOT analogous to the judge, it’s analogous to a police investigation and indictment rolled into one.
In my analogy, the arbitrator is analogous to the judge.
In the appeal SafeSport has the burden of proof to establish by a preponderance of the evidence that the violations occurred. Sounds sort of like the job of a prosecutor?
If you think that the appeal only addresses procedural issues and does not involve evidence and witnesses, you’ve bought into more misinformation spread by Bonnie Navin.
FiSk123 - a ruling, please?
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I had some time today, so I read the entire SafeSport Code Book. Reminded me of my years as as Operations Director, where I was in charge of all HR functions, and wrote a number of procedural/HR/technical manuals. I can see why why not many people bother… pretty dry stuff. But to me, it is interesting. I’m kinda odd that way. :winkgrin:
Anyhoo, @YankeeDuchess, not sure if this addresses your question above regarding what exactly the appeal process covers or not - but this is what is stated in the manual…
R-2. Scope Arbitration shall resolve only whether a Responding Party violated the SafeSport Code for the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Movement (Code) and/or the appropriate sanction (if any). Challenges to, or complaints about, any organizational practices or procedures shall not be addressed and the arbitrator shall be limited to evaluating whether a Covered Individual violated the Code and, if so, the appropriate sanction.
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I think it’s only natural when you only know the accused and you know nothing about the claimant or the claims for your instinct to be to protect the accused. Especially so if you’ve never had any contact with a case like this.
These kinds of HR style investigations are essential and necessary and very often have to act on information that doesn’t make a neat and tidy case. But there may be enough evidence, and a pattern, for a reasonable person to believe there’s a problem. Each case alone may not be enough for a criminal conviction, but when you have multiple independent stories come to you it’s not credible to believe that nothing happened.
I feel that many people who are upset have glossed over the fact that SafeSport has tools other than a permanent ban. They can informally mediate between the parties. They can write a letter of reprimand. They can give temporary restrictions. They can tell the claimant the claim is groundless. They can hold information against future data. We don’t so much hear about those cases.
The temporary suspensions confused people. There are certainly still cases where that will continue to be appropriate. I don’t know if they’ve decided to use it less. But, understand, it’s exactly what we’d expect if it was a teacher or 4-H leader or scouting leader or youth coach in any other sport.
A permanent ban is only appropriate for really egregious cases. They’ve given out very few that aren’t of the automatic variety that would come with a criminal conviction.
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Yes, thanks, that it helpful. Big Mama asserted that the appeal was focused on procedural issues, and was not analogous to a trial on whether the violation was committed, but the excerpt clearly says that the appeal process is focused on whether the violation occurred, and not on procedural issues.
Would still love to hear from FiSk123.
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Eventhough the code indicates organizational practices or procedures will not be addressed, I would expect some lawyers do address it in their attempt to defend their clients.
The code also says the Reporting Party’s name will not be disclosed. Kathy Serio states that the infomation regarding the case cannot not shared (even to a wife); however, this is not true. Any attorney will tell you they can’t defend their client and provide evidence and witnesses if they don’t know the other party. So, while it appears to be a violation of the code, names are absolutely disclosed. The Responding Party’s witnesses know who reported.
As I stated before, many of these cases are within the statute of limitations. And it has been said multiple times that there isn’t a penalty administered that is comparable to that of a criminal or civil trial. No jail time, no probation, no financial restitution to the Reporting Party.
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I do want to interject here that, although SS does not seek restitution or take any further action once a penalty has been decided, I would expect that in future, when the statute of limitations has not been exceeded, or has been waived by the state in which the actions took place, the victims would pursue civil or criminal cases. i also would imagine that a ban by SS would be admissible in evidence. (but I’m not a lawyer).
