George Morris on the SS list

[OverandOnward]

@mvp

But my point stands: Does any adult, half-way moral reader of Lolita really see her as the causal agent of their affair?

Yep. It’s from an ancient twisted mindset, but so they do. There are those who think she’s the subtle initiator, and there are those who think that however it started, she kept it going for her own purposes. Of course that’s why her name became descriptive of a behavior pattern by underage girls as perceived by that point of view.

Wait, you said “half-way moral”. Not sure about that part.

But I am further disturbed that the stereotypical negative perspective of the Lolita of the book seems to be the peg that at least some of the anti-SS crowd is hanging their hat on, even though they haven’t used the name in their rhetoric. Finally we are down to it, it seems – they haven’t denied that things happened, they just deny that the accused is the responsible party. That leaves the underage girl or boy as the situational engineer.

[Peggy]

@Virginia Horse Mom Russian literature > 200 Years of Solitude. Though I haven’t read that much.

[skydy]

@Peggy, While reading the Russian literature I have read, I have said to myself “alright, why don’t you get on with it already, how long do you need to extend this thought, with it’s diversion into what should be footnotes at this point…”

Nothing to do with the subject at hand, but jeeze I’ve read most of it, including the Communist Manifesto of Carl Marx, even the Gulag Archipelago was written in excruciating detail. Bless their intellectual hearts but nope, not a fan.

Can’t blame them though, it’s a difficult life they’ve been writing about most often.

[ladyj79]

(marx was german)

[Ghazzu]

@skydy

@Peggy, While reading the Russian literature I have read, I have said to myself “alright, why don’t you get on with it already, how long do you need to extend this thought, with it’s diversion into what should be footnotes at this point…”

Nothing to do with the subject at hand, but jeeze I’ve read most of it, including the Communist Manifesto of Carl Marx, even the Gulag Archipelago was written in excruciating detail. Bless their intellectual hearts but nope, not a fan.

Can’t blame them though, it’s a difficult life they’ve been writing about most often.

Karl Marx was German.

[WB_Mom]

Been reading this thread as I have had time, not all of it of course, but a good part. Very entertaining at times, and certainly looking at the whole thread, a microcosm of our American Society and its Values. Lots of great input from all angles, moral, legal and ethical, etc. Big changes may be ahead for some in the well-insulated and sometimes well-protected folks in the Equestrian World. This Change began outside of our sport and is inevitable and coming whether someone likes or approves of it or not. Is it perfect? No, but evolving. I believe with great input, time and experience it has the ability to change all sports for the better. What can you do? Accept that things are going to change and help it be the best it can be.

This reminds me somewhat of my job. Someone makes a decision and you come in one day and here is what is going to change. Sometimes it is a small change, sometimes it will change EVERYTHING you do. To make the best of the change, you should try and minimize your instinctive resistance to the change and embrace it and make it the best it can be. This is really hard. In the world where you have change shoved down your throat over and over (like at my work), it can give you the tools to make the best of future changes.

[anon6923113]

@WB Mom

Big changes may be ahead for some in the well-insulated and sometimes well-protected folks in the Equestrian World. This Change began outside of our sport and is inevitable and coming whether someone likes or approves of it or not. Is it perfect? No, but evolving. I believe with great input, time and experience it has the ability to change all sports for the better. What can you do? Accept that things are going to change and help it be the best it can be.

REALLY well stated.

I am sure Safe Sport or MAAP policies, or other aspects of the whole process can be amended and improved in certain respects. And given that Safe Sport is essentially an oversight organization involving an administrative process… it’s not as efficient or responsive as is ideal. Probably not even close.

But I think it is better to have a way in which to address this sort of abuse, than to continue to ignore it. So I support it, and am hopeful over time that it will lead to less abuse and a change in the culture of many sports.

[skydy]

@Ghazzu

Karl Marx was German.

Sorry, It was a long time ago when I was reading that sort of thing. Mein Kampf was horribly long winded as well. I just remember the incredibly excruciating writing style and must have lumped all them all together.

I am now resisting the temptation of adding a link to Monty Python’s “Philosopher’s Song”.

[ladyj79]

I think some people confuse efficiency with speed of process, but they are not necessarily synonymous.

You can have a perfectly clear and efficient process that still takes time, especially when safe sport is spending years on certain investigations in order to be thorough, uncover relevant facts, and interview relative witnesses.

The human element is what often slows an efficient process, but the process itself remains the same.

[Belowthesalt]

@Capall

Alright guys, sorry. It has been a whirlwind last few months for me with my last quarter of nursing school (and well, two years of nursing school and two years of pre-reqs) eating my brain alive. I was 99% joking

100 years of solitude though… I am NOT joking about that. I salute anyone who found that enjoyable, but I did get an A on the paper I had to write about it :lol:

I am an avid reader of anything and everything. I got an “A” on my report on Moby Dick and I sure as &$*&)($% don’t want to read THAT again! I think that’s one of those books most people remember being FORCED to read. LOL

[Belowthesalt]

@skydy

Sorry, It was a long time ago when I was reading that sort of thing. Mein Kampf was horribly long winded as well. I just remember the incredibly excruciating writing style and must have lumped all them all together.

I am now resisting the temptation of adding a link to Monty Python’s “Philosopher’s Song”.

LOL…Immanual Kant was a real……. - Gotcha, Bruce.

[MHM]

This may have already been posted here, since there are a few similar threads right now.

But at the presentation at the USHJA meeting this week in Denver, the representative from safe sport said that they have had something like 4000 cases to work on since the organization started 2.5 years ago. Not just in equestrian sport, but in all 52(?) sports they cover under the Olympic umbrella. I believe he said they have about 20 people for that work, and they are in the process of doubling their workforce.

Anyone who wants to know more about the process should really watch the video of that Denver presentation when it becomes available from USHJA. It really answered lots of the questions involved, and the representative did a very thorough job of explaining how it all works.

[smoofox]

@skydy

I am now resisting the temptation of adding a link to Monty Python’s “Philosopher’s Song”.

AAARRRGGH!!! NOOOOOO!! earworm crawls into place for the next week or so :eek: :lol:

What I find depressing about the ISWG crowd’s apparent lack of comprehension skills is their repeated indignation and outrage about things that have been repeatedly and patiently explained and pointed out - but any such input is just summarily swept aside as it is not an exoneration of dear George.

They do not care about facts. They do not care about the careful process SafeSport follows. All they care about is their own righteous indignation and George … and maybe some are squirming a bit and wondering if their past (or present) may smack them upside the head.

Embarrassing and just plain depressing.

…there’s nothing Nietzsche couldn’t teach ya 'bout the raising of the wrist…

[YankeeDuchess]

@Capall

Ok can we please stop with saying people who haven’t read “Lolita” are ignorant, illiterate etc? I have never read it nor seen the movie, and I do not believe that makes me somehow less of a person. It’s just never been something I’ve read or desire to read! I consider myself to be well-read and just graduated from a very tough nursing program so I am definitely not an idiot!

Tongue firmly in cheek, but kind of :rolleyes: at the comments that "ermagerd yer derdernt rerd ther berk yerd dermb!

No one is saying you’re ignorant for not having read “Lolita”. BTW, in the movie version, I think the Humbert character (the middle aged man who seduces/is transfixed by Lolita) is played by Jeremy Irons.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Capall

I have a BA in Anthropology and no, I never read it. Never needed to, never wanted to. Have heard of the gist of it but never read it. I still have no desire to read it. Basically all I’ve heard about it was a younger girl and older guy and some sort of seduction going on. So, I guess you can be surprised that not every college educated person in the US has read every book that is considered “canon.”

I HAVE read 100 years of solitude and would like those hours of my life back…

I think there is a generational or vintage effect going on here. I’m old enough that the story was too shocking to have been assigned in high school (gasp) or college; twenty years later it was probably common in college and even high school, perhaps for someone young enough to be a newly minted nurse, it’s just not near the top of the heap of books they might have read.

Am I culturally illiterate for not knowing what the hell Tik Tok is?

[anon6923113]

Moby Dick was not something I made it through. I also wasn’t a fan of Hawthorne… I read both the House of the Seven Gables AND The Scarlett Letter, and found both tedious.

Kind of interesting given the whole reason for this thread, and the fact that many of us commenting are very sensitive to issues involving abuse of women and children… but I really didn’t like the Scarlett Letter, and emotionally, it fell completely flat with me.

Anna Karenina however? Similar topic, but a Russian writer. The whole novel moved me, and made me cry and cry.

In terms of much more more recent literature, that is BEAUTIFULLY written from an international perspective… but should only be read if you are comfortable reading DEEPLY intense stories about really challenging topics involving women and children…

All three of Khaled Hosseini’s novels. “The Kite Runner” is the most well known. It’s incredible… and very sad. The second, “A Thousand Splendid Suns” was the story that most deeply impacted me. The third book “And the Mountains Echoed” was also very good. But I found the first two better. I’m not sure if he has written others yet. Possibly. All three are worth reading if you like literature, a vivid, very specific writing style, topics addressed by literature that cause a reader to do some intense soul searching and thinking, and if you have an interest in literature addressing global history issues that frankly span continents, and are cross cultural in nature.

I’m not saying Hosseini is a Tolstoy of the modern era… but I personally plan on having my kids read some of his novels once they are young adults, and discussing the novels with them, in the context of trying to understand the tragedy that is Afghanistan from about 1970 to present, and how complicated it all is, and how we should take care to think about and discuss current issues with that part of the world with a measure of deep empathy for the very human tragedy that has unfolded, and the suffering other human beings have experienced.

Good literature about intense topics that we experience as human beings should help a reader to more deeply comprehend and FEEL the experience of other humans that a writer is attempting to convey.

I think the thing that has MOST upset me in terms of the reaction to Safe Sport rules, and the ban of RG and GM in particular, is that I am NOT seeing or hearing any indication of empathy for victims from some of the key people who want to be right in the middle of “reforming” Safe Sport.

I find it interesting that many of the folks who have posted on these forums and these specific threads about Safe Sport share a love of several of the same books, and literature of a specific variety. Except for 100 years of Solitude :lol: I’m the apparently the only one who was moved by a dreamlike experience reading about multiple generations of a dysfunctional fictitious family in a fictitious South American town that all eventually faded away into nothing because of their own unhealthy insular and bluntly incestuous tendencies. These people were legends in their own minds though.

Something to consider… oh well. I tried to draw a parallel Probably failed. But tried.

[YankeeDuchess]

@mvp

Hold up!

The whole “illiteracy” remark was mine and it was used in the literal sense-- to refer to people who didn’t read Nabokov’s novel (for whatever reason) but could merely view the same story in movie form.

If you want to extend that limited and actual meaning of the term “illiterate” as it was used in my post to mean “dumb,” and pull over from the topic of this thread to get butt-hurt about that, you can. But that’s not what my post and the term in it requires of you.

BTW, I think I have seen the movie, too. I barely remember the movie in and of itself. It’s a 1955 or so movie so it implies a lot rather than shows a lot. I remember thinking all that innuendo was even creepier because I had read the novel.

   How can the movie be 1955 with Jeremy Irons as Humbert?

[Capall]

@Belowthesalt

I am an avid read of anything and everything. I got an “A” on my report on Moby Dick and I sure as &$*&)($% don’t want to read THAT again! I think that’s one of those books most people remember being FORCED to read. LOL

I don’t know what was worse… 100 years of solitude or my pharmacology textbook haha!

[TheMoo]

100 Years of Solitude loses A LOT in translation.

The people wanting Safe Sport reform do not care about the victims, they don’t care about the people on the banned list beyond their friends. They just don’t care.

I wish they would use the donation money to start their own circuit.

[MHM]

@YankeeDuchess

How can the movie be 1955 with Jeremy Irons as Humbert?

I believe the 1955 version had James Mason in it, and Jeremy Irons was probably in a remake, although I have not seen either one, nor read the book.