George Morris on the SS list

[Saskatoonian]

(Hmmm, looks like I’ll have to keep slogging through that mess of a book now.)

[RugBug]

@Jealoushe

Bernue Traurig just posted he stands with GM and has relinquished his USEF and USHJA membership on FB.

Ok, so then he posted he doesn’t show so not sure how it effects him.

I feel like he might have something to hide based on his similar response after RG.

Comments like this just fuel the fire of ‘guilty until proven innocent.’

You don’t have to support Bernie, but why don’t you let SS do what it’s there to do?

He teaches a lot of USEF members, so he still has a lot to lose if someone makes allegations against him.

[Palm_Beach]

@McGurk

Excerpt re: the reserpine testing.

I am flabbergasted at the arrogance - he is on the Drugs and Medication Committee and gives an “iconic, wonderful” hunter reserpine??? And then, aw shucks, people eventually forget when you CHEAT and get caught.

[Palm_Beach]

@Saskatoonian

(Hmmm, looks like I’ll have to keep slogging through that mess of a book now.)

Please share anything insightful. I am still refusing to pay $13.99 for the Kindle version. But if you post some insights and suggest a charity, I’ll donate $13.99 to that charity.

[findeight]

@Silk

Yes…and from what I remember, a now-California based trainer took the fall for it (willingly)

Thats what I was remembering too. She fell on the sword for him.

And HHVs late (ex?) hubby had a bully streak too from what I have been told, one gal related to me he kicked her when she was a Junior some 30 years back when didn’t react quick enough but got told to shut up and suck it up when she told others. Not really very surprising.

[McGurk]

@Palm Beach,

Oh, no, he was just experimenting by giving to a few horses, assuming it would be out of their systems by the show. (Reserpine was well known for its long lasting effect - up to 30 days.)

Just bad luck he was caught, that’s all.

That is in sarcasm, font, by the way.

My reaction to the book as a whole was “Wow, he really is that big a jerk!”

[caffeinated]

@McGurk

Excerpt re: the reserpine testing.

There’s something about that excerpt that just makes me want to vomit, and sort of sums up the horse show world at the same time.

[CPL713]

@Crashing Boar

A few observations:

No authority in this land can legislate or mandate “lack of compassion” or “empathy,” a word never heard before 2 years ago. Ditto teaching style. The marketplace can take care of this very nicely; simply take your business elsewhere, and tell people why. To date, GHM has had zero problems filling any of his clinics. Not your style? Find someone to train with who embodies the traits you seek.

The top levels of any sport are very, very tough–tough to enter, tough to attain, and in this sport, very dangerous and with hundreds of thousands of dollars riding on the outcome at the Grand Prix level. A bad mistake can kill you or that very expensive animal you’re sitting on, and that’s why trainers don’t always have time to sugar-coat it. Frankly, if all it takes is words/attitudes/gruff style to destroy you mentally, you’re nowhere close to the caliber that’s ever going to jump the big stix. Go ask your brothers how much “empathy” coaches are dishing out in topflight lacrosse or ice hockey or football!

Torch-and-pitchfork brandishers here are now accusing GHM, publicly and in writing, of animal cruelty. That’s a serious criminal charge, and if not true would certainly be actionable as slander/libel. I’d be a little careful of that.

Are…are you trying to tell us that “empathy” is a word that was recently…made up? Or did you just not have that particular word in your vocabulary or something?

There is nothing wrong with being gruff, with not sugarcoating things, with being blunt. Those traits and empathy are not mutually exclusive. Those things don’t cross a line into being cruel, or being a sexual predator.

[atl_hunter]

@poltroon

I’m going to take a moment here, not to disagree particularly with what you wrote, but to open a bit of a redirect. I don’t know if JS is a claimant or not nor if that’s what GM wants us to think… or even why anyone would want us to think it, because if it’s true it’s pretty awful.

I also don’t know JS and don’t care to vouch for his character in any way.

But. Possession of child pornography, and his comments about his love/hate relationship with the sport that have been in articles about him for decades… those are completely consistent with someone abused by a coach or trusted adult. Same with drug use and other self-destructive behavior. It’s exactly why we consider them to be such serious crimes. The trauma sometimes eats the survivors from the inside out. That these behaviors also discredit the victim is exactly part of the problem we’ve had with convicting perpetrators… the “he’s no angel” reaction.

Has GM ever said anything publicly about the situation with JS? After all, JS supervised minor students at GM’s operation and direction.

What an interesting and excellent question.

But then one might also have to stand with RG as the question has been raised as to whether he was groomed by JW. Quite the conundrum…

[Irish_Ei_s]

More members of the FB group
Holly Hugo-Vidal
Ron Danta
Robert Ross
Vanessa Brown
Dianne DeFrancieux-Grod (sp?)

I have not really read the posts, I’m just listing names as they appear,regardless of their reasons for being there

[lonewolf]

@Irish Ei's

More members of the FB group
Holly Hugo-Vidal
Ron Danta
Robert Ross
Vanessa Brown
Dianne DeFrancieux-Grod (sp?)

I have not really read the posts, I’m just listing names as they appear,regardless of their reasons for being there

someone posted a statement from Katie Prudent as well.

for what it’s worth, I didn’t find Bernie’s comments so bad, even if I dont agree with them. They were mostly about SS processes. At least he didn’t victim blame or say there’s no way GHM is guilty.

the most horrific comment came from someone suggesting everyone file false sexual assault claims to screw over the system… eeeek

[541hunter]

@atl_hunter

But then one might also have to stand with RG as the question has been raised as to whether he was groomed by JW. Quite the conundrum…

Explanation of behavior is not an excuse. One can recognize the sad fact that past trauma affects how a person acts in the present without giving them a free pass for those actions.

[BigMama1]

@Palm Beach

I am flabbergasted at the arrogance - he is on the Drugs and Medication Committee and gives an “iconic, wonderful” hunter reserpine??? And then, aw shucks, people eventually forget when you CHEAT and get caught.

The arrogance is breathtaking

[Saskatoonian]

COTH posted Prudent’s comment.
https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/equestrian-community-reacts-to-george-morris-safesport-suspension?fbclid=IwAR0PSpswbqYX8Hug3qf3dE1bcexW3qXmDnkUfNM3-klWbeU7-6vWrMYZryQ

I’m having a hell of a time with the level of ignorance on display. Time to go ride and be grateful for my barn.

[Irish_Ei_s]

@Irish Ei's

More members of the FB group
Holly Hugo-Vidal
Ron Danta
Robert Ross
Vanessa Brown
Dianne DeFrancieux-Grod (sp?)

I have not really read the posts, I’m just listing names as they appear,regardless of their reasons for being there

Junior Johnson
Scott Canard
Teddi Ismond
Katie Prudent, under an alias username

[ladyj79]

Well he didn’t have sex with Robert, a well established criteria for establishing sexual predation…

[INoMrEd]

^ I agree it is breathtaking… Like his big name will protect him!

[Texarkana]

@Saskatoonian

COTH posted Prudent’s comment.
https://www.chronofhorse.com/article…eU7-6vWrMYZryQ

I’m having a hell of a time with the level of ignorance on display. Time to go ride and be grateful for my barn.

Can we at least give Beezie Madden a hand for not being despicable and actually making an appropriate statement? :applause:

And Robert Ridland at least dodged the question.

I was thankful for Jennifer Baas’ insight.

[541hunter]

Tex, I thought the exact same thing. I do a lot of media responses in my job and that is a perfectly crafted statement that is fair and balanced.

[Bensmom]

@541hunter

I see there are still people popping into this thread to wail and gnash their teeth about due process and constitutional rights and so on. I won’t quote any of them in hopes that they’ve decided to leave but I am going to paste my response to similar sentiments an acquaintance posted on Facebook:

Doctors can be prohibited from practicing medicine for misconduct without a criminal trial (just investigation from their state medical board). Lawyers can be disbarred. Social workers can have their license revoked. Every professional licensing entity I can think of to look up has some kind of internal investigation process that can result in a licensee being banned from the association without criminal conviction in a court of law. It’s a near-universal practice in the professional world and pretty clearly NOT a violation of anyone’s constitutional right to a fair trial. Why should voluntary participation in an organized sport be different? We obviously don’t know the facts in this case (though the NY Times reporter who wrote the Jimmy Williams story has been investigating GHM for months before the sanctions dropped and is poised to publish an in-depth article), and the appeal may well overturn the sanction. But to say that the sanctioning process is a violation of constitutional rights is obtuse at best.

I’m not taking any position other than that anyone who abuses anyone else that has placed their trust in them should be punished.

But, as professional that works in a system dealing with the discipline of professional licenses, while every state is different, in ours, your case is public when probable cause is found, and a public charging document is filed, which an accused person has the opportunity to request a full hearing (also public) and contest the charges, and the charges have to be proven before an administrative judge, before anyone’s license is acted upon.

There are statutory conditions that would allow for an emergency suspension, but in 11 years, I’ve only been involved in two, and if that route is necessary, the accused gets a speedy evidentiary hearing in front of a judge. The only time our Board considers allegations and hands out punishments without a trial is when the Respondent/licensee elects to agree to a settlement, or doesn’t contest facts and asks for fines/punishment. (which is frankly, what happens most of the time, because our investigation system is quite thorough, and my cases are seen twice by a panel after investigation and usually the written report of an expert.)

Also, appellate law has held, and our state law says, that when a professional license is put in jeopardy, you are entitled to due process, and states what that is. The big difference here is that USEF is NOT a licensing agency and horse shows and sanctioned events by USEF are private and can ban people.

So, no info on the whole Safe Sport situation, just a bit of information on how licensing law works in our state. Having reviewed the helpful flow chart, the Safe Sport process is not super similar to our process. Disclaimer though, other states are different.

Carry on!