That may be what would enter your head as a minor but I doubt most young people today are as ignorant or paranoid to take the SS rules to that hysterical end.
There are many young people (most of them) today that are intelligent enough to understand that rules are rules, and who have good mentors and parents that are able to answer the kids questions about the rules.
Most kids accept the rules because they are the rules. Their focus is on riding. Following the rules is the means to that end.
I found this gem among the comments on the NYT’s Facebook post of its George Morris article. It’s probably going to be unreadable, so will quote below. [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: Screen Shot 2019-08-08 at 8.02.35 PM.jpg Views: 1 Size: 17.1 KB ID: 10449819”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“10449819”,“data-size”:“full”}[/ATTACH]
Kyle Putnam “First, please refrain from using The Chronicle of the Horse message forums as a source. It’s populated by anonymous individuals, many of which are nothing in real life as they claim to be online and have their own mental health issues. Second, I would love to see some real journalism into the negative impacts of SafeSport, accusations of crimes, and ruination of someone’s reputation and career without being afforded a trial. I have zero opinion on George Morris. Rumors run rampant throughout at the horse world all the time. They should be taken with a box of salt. Abusers belong in prison, after they have been tried in court in front of a jury of their peers, not behind closed doors in a process that lacks any transparency.”
:lol: I guess she thinks she’s something in the equestrian world? Cause I never heard of her :lol:
@Peggy, now that’s funny. Ms. Pullman (I think that’s the name) discredits COTH but leaves Horseshow Diva alone? And who knew that we all have mental health issues? :lol:
Call me old-fashioned, but I think if people with concerns about Safe Sport want their arguments taken seriously, they should probably refrain from using the terms: witch-hunt, McCarthyism and SS Stasi.
That wasn’t directed specifically at you, although you did pose the question that irked me. And your point is fair. But given that all of her exes were horsemen (and so it could be any of them) and that it seems that the original question is a) irrelevant to the point at hand, and b) a bit nasty to want to “unpack” someone’s marital history, my point still stands IMHO. Speculating on which in laws were threatened isn’t productive.
ETA: If she had wanted to name the ex or in laws, she would have.
How are the rest of us supposed to know that if we don’t know the story on all the names? I didn’t know the background either.
Putnam. I went back and put her name in. My original copy/paste included her name, but it came out as a hyperlink to her Facebook profile, which didn’t seem entirely fair.
Safe sport and criminal law are 2 seperate entities.
SafeSports jurisdiction covers all victims under the age of 18. Period.
What was or wasn’t NJ criminal law then or now has no bearing on SafeSports ruling
Started by someone with no last name, no searchable FB activity & a weird profile pic??
Just say no please
Did anyone link the new NYT article? Sorry if this is a repeat.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/08/sports/george-morris.html
You can’t believe that. Why don’t you ask a young person what SafeSport conveys? You will get an entire different response that your fantasied version.
Yes, I think we all understand that.
The question is whether that could be challenged in court. People say, “a private club can do whatever it wants.” However, I’m not sure a court would agree that USEF is merely a private club, like Tarrytown Bridge Club or Norwell Elks Club. The reason is that USEF has near-monopoly control over a particular livelihood–i.e., being a hunter/jumper professional. And yes, I know you can still teach riding in your backyard even if you are banned from USEF, but let’s all be honest and admit it’s not the same, and if you were not already a famous trainer it would pretty much cut off your ability to become one. I think likening it to a state bar association or medical board is somewhat apt.
A true private club can make whatever rules it wants: “No women” “No Asians” or whatever. I’m not so sure that a group that exercises such powerful control over a particular profession can do so. Does anyone really believe USEF could make a rule barring Asians or women?
Remember, private universities are “private,” but courts have struck down their sexual assault tribunals on the ground they don’t provide adequate due process. So clearly there are limits on what some private institutions can do.
I don’t think these issues are simple. I will be very interested to see what legal challenges are raised and how they are decided.
I support SS’s mission, and i don’t defend GM, but as an attorney I’m definitely intrigued by how this will go.
As an attorney you must know that the Safe Sport requirement regarding the prohibition of instructor/minor sexual contact is absolutely not comparable to a private club denying membership to people based on their race or religion.
“Private universities” I’m sure you know, are not strictly private as they all, to an extent, receive funds that preclude them from truly private status. They are not free to break the law willy-nilly.
As a poster up thread mentioned, people that violate the rules of their organization regarding sexual or behavioral contact with minors, are not a protected class.
GM is shown as suspended on the FEI database - not sure if this link has already been posted, 20 more pages on this thread since I last looked!
https://data.fei.org/Person/Performance.aspx?p=472BA95B89E78029115E923865EA59E7
Tommy Serio was issued a temporary suspension, first- not a lifetime ban. This being issued “immediately before the email” is likely due to the “more recent” nature of the allegations made against him. SS code mentions it considers ongoing threat to members in the equation. So all these guys getting bans for old stuff is because it’s been investigated (and GHM knew he was being investigated long before we did). The temp suspension was put in place operating under the assumption TS might still be a “danger” to other girls/women before they could satisfy the burden of proof on whether he needs banning or not.
Secondly, he had to fight so hard because he wasn’t proving that he wasn’t having sex with an employee AT ALL- he was having to prove it was consensual and not a condition of employment. That’s a whole other kettle of fish. He could have saved himself time, money and embarrassment by not shagging his employee in the first place.
With regard to @541hunter 's statement about temporary measures, I believe the Center’s response to the Rob Gage suicide was indeed to stop the “initial temporary ban”… I would assume there are limits to this but it’s currently unclear where it will and will not be applied now. I have reached out to Teresa Roper for explanation and clarification on this. x
The FEI has reciprocity with SS and thus NGB suspensions. George will no longer coach for Brazil, or any other country.
No USEF, no FEI, no clinics arranged and attended by USEF members.
There is already one brewing! The Lopez brothers in Taekwondo had suspensions overturned in arbitration because the women did not want to testify in front of them. Apparently the bone of contention is that the women were never offered the option to testify live, remotely which is listed as an option in the policy? But there was an ongoing federal lawsuit against them (with an additional two plaintiffs beyond the 3 in the SS report)… They’ve added SS to the lawsuit saying the overturned suspension on those grounds was damaging. So they’re suing the Lopez men AND SafeSport now.
I stand with the victims. I have known GM since I was 9 years old. He is a brilliant coach, a master. He is also an incredible judge of people and a master manipulator, which is one of the reason why he can get the most out of his students. He is charming, he is funny, he can talk about just about any topic. He loves to travel and meet new and interesting people. I am now 42 years old and I last saw George about 4 years ago, we spent a few nights catching up at a weekend away with some horse friends and he helped me with my horse, got on him and jumped him around. It was wonderful.
Having said all that I must point out something which I am so surprised no one seems to have noticed. In his very own book he talks several times about how he has two sides to his personality. He discusses his wild party days, how he would go off the rails in the 70s and blow off steam after the horse show. There is a professional, very ‘grown up’ side to GM and there is a childish, petulant - what he would call ‘naughty’ side to him as well. He talks about those wild days to his friends often.
I did not actually train with GM, my mother wouldnt let me. I trained with his assistant coaches and did the equitation, not the jumpers. I did not witness anything but there have ALWAYS been - from the time I was a child until most recently a few years ago - much much younger boys /men around him. As he got older they were more ‘boy toys’ - definitely over the age of 18 but always way way younger than George himself.
His reach into the sport is extraordinary. Go back and read his book. With the exception of Missy and Andre (although Andre’s mentor was Judy Richter who has a long and close relationship with GM) - anyway, his ‘reach’ into the big name trainers and helping put them on the map in some way or other is why he is being defended / protected (call it what you will). He has doled out favours his entire career. He is not Santa and has never professed to be so. He has calmed down in his elderly age but believe me - in the 70s and 80s and most of the early 90s - if you were called on by George to do something, no matter how old you were - you did it.
Imagine having that kind of power and then imagine a teenage boy going to live with him. He had teenage boys living with him all throughout his years at Hunterdon. And whatever happened in that house (and I am not saying this was Jeffrey Epstein, mind you, I am not saying that at all), but can’t we all admit that there is an enormous power dynamic there just waiting to be exploited?
And then look at his protégées - his students, Let’s see. And in no particular order. Bill Cooney. Who had a relationship with Frank Madden who was a junior at the time. Frank who then went on to have a relationship with Stacia Madden who was a junior. And then went on to have another relationship with a junior. All of that is absolutely well known.
And then there are his other protégées which I think are noticeable for their ABSENCE in his book - Conrad. Ray Texel. Where are they in standing up for him? What did they see or experience?
I am a woman. I could very easily write something like Katie did - I never witnessed anything. He has been nothing but wonderful and supportive of my riding. My grandmother, mother and myself have known GM. My grandmother told me stories of GM when he quite riding and worked in NYC as an actor. That is how far back we go. I have never witnessed anything inappropriate myself but there have always been rumours.
Candice King, Molly Ashe, Katie Prudent. They can all stand up for George. But my darlings, you are women and you are not George’s cup of tea.
I stand for the victims.
Safe sport has many flaws but this has been in the works for a couple years. The public may be surprised but EVERYONE who is anyone in the horse community has known about this investigation. The investigation has concluded and he has been found guilty.
It is a sad sad week for our sport.
He is and always will be an amazing teacher, a “teacher’s teacher”. A huge guiding force in our sport for 50 + years. It is upsetting even for me to see him stripped of all that because he is VERY GOOD AT HIS JOB.
But people are complex and they are more than just one thing. And I encourage everyone to re-read his book with new eyes and take a breathe and try and take the great things he has taught us about horses and riding, but please recognise that there are victimS here. I believe the safe sport board would not have found him guilty without real proof. I really do. No one wants this to happen to our sport. It is a sad day for everyone involved.
Someone invited me to join. I see their posts. George must be so proud!
Edited because I spelled geirge/george
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