George Morris on the SS list

[BigMama1]

@Bogie

I am reading it now. The writing is atrocious. I’m appalled that he hired a ghost writer. He should have listened to her. There is a lot in there that I find disturbing, not just the subtext, which I find unsettling. I notice that whenever he does something illegal, he immediately calls out someone else that does it. For example, when he talks about poling his horse at a show with a tack-studded rail, he immediately says that Rodney Jenkins did it too. There’s also a fair amount about drugs used to calm horses. So far, the book has made me doubt his horsemanship, thank the saints that I never rode with him (too abusive), and wonder what else he’s going to reveal that’s unsavory. His “escapades” make me want to take a shower.

There’s one where he brings two young female students (one of whom he was dating, back when he dated both girls and boys) to an NYC nightclub and the evening ended with one of the girls getting dragged out by the hair and thrown in a snowbank. He concedes something along of lines of perhaps them being too young for the club scene.

[Gainer]

@Virginia Horse Mom

I was actually sort of curious as to what was up with this, and went back and looked at the website again, and realized I had misspelled a name. It’s Rick Eckhardt. He was a USET team member and has been a Pint Club examiner for the B and A levels, and also has a license to judge recognized shows apparently and was up until a few years ago.

Does anyone know if he is still affiliated with River Chase or an active USEF member? It seems odd that he would be tied to Navarro. I’m dubious of Navarro’s claims to have coached horses and riders up to the Grand Prix level And if a lowly ammy like me can spot some likely b.s. and resume inflation such as that, I would think a former USET team member could too.

Maybe Eckhardt distanced himself from Navarro a while ago and the website is out of date on that score as well.

If you look at the calendar, there’s no mention of Rick giving lessons at all, making me think he got the hell out. Kim does appear to be teaching. There’s always been a constant turnover of employees at River Chase, so nothing would be surprising.

Navarro definitely exaggerates his “accomplishments”. He once claimed to have groomed for Christopher Reeve; of course there’s the “Professor” at GMU claim; he once claimed to have been an Army Ranger (he was never in the military, believe me); the BS is pretty darn deep. Guess he thinks people are stupid, and I guess some are, since they continue to train with him. Mind boggling, when you consider how many decent, upstanding, really talented trainers there are in the area.

[BigMama1]

@HoolieB

Frequent lurker, infrequent poster.

I admit that early on I thought due process was completely disregarded by SS and that suspensions and permanent ineligibility were assigned upon accusations being made. I questioned SS and its flagrant abuse of power. When GM was affected, I thought it went too far. So I got myself to the forum here and looked forward to reading like-minded posts. Heh.

At first I was confused and put off by the more, er, passionate posts defending SS and the process. I mean, GM was the Grand Poobah of all things hunter/jumper. (For reference, I do fancy-prancing. Badly.) How could H/J folks not be up in arms about this injustice, this ancient and spurious charge of hedonistic behavior? So I kept reading here. And a funny thing happened: I got educated on SS and the process. I was reminded that abuse of power in the form of sexual abuse and the damage inflicted on victims has no expiration date. No longer can I put my head in the sand and think SS sanctions are a result of so-called witch hunts. In short, I am deeply embarrassed at my first reaction to the GM sanctions.

Thank you to everyone here who took the time to present facts. It made a difference.

Thank you. Now if you could just convince Robert Dover to drop by and give the thread a read too, that would be great!

[HoolieB]

@ladyj79

I mean, George Morris is a former USET member and chef. I don’t know that that is necessarily proof of great character or judgement.

Believe me, I am embarrassed about how I let the celebrity of GM affect my perception.

[MHM]

@Virginia Horse Mom

I was actually sort of curious as to what was up with this, and went back and looked at the website again, and realized I had misspelled a name. It’s Rick Eckhardt. He was a USET team member and has been a Pint Club examiner for the B and A levels, and also has a license to judge recognized shows apparently and was up until a few years ago.

With that spelling, he shows up as a USEF member, but not a licensed official according to the current list.

[dannyboy]

@ Gainer I was surprised to see Rick’s name on the trainer list as well. I’ve known him for many years (not well) but since his Pan Am Games days (he was on the 3-day team, which if memory serves, won a gold medal) and always thought him to be very fair and knowledgeable, certainly not the type of person to be impressed by inflated claims of “accomplishments”.
I don’t have much contact with Pony club, I know he’s judged a lot of unrated hunter shows on the local circuit, but it’s been a couple of years since I’ve seen him at all.

[Peggy]

@Alterforme

There is now a new petition on change.org
“Safe sport reform petition advocacy for George Morris and all usef members “.
I saw it on fb

Link - https://www.change.org/p/donald-j-trump-safe-sport-reform-petition-advocacy-for-george-morris-and-all-usef-members

It was started by Sherry Pace.

An excerpt from the petition:
“Below is a bullet point list of the constitutional issues that need to be addressed:

1. The right to know the charges and your accuser/accusers.
2. The right to counsel.
   3.The concept of timely,civil proceedure .
   4.The acknowledgement of statute of limitations.
   5.The distinction of felony and misdemeanor of charges.

In addition the process needs to be more in line with other organizations that have to handle similar situations.”

I believe that #1 and the sentence after the first list are incorrect. 🤦🏼”â™€ï¸

[Crashing_Boar]

@eeyore886

So I have not read every comment posted here. I’m pretty sure there is enough from both sides. But here’s my two cents for what it’s worth. I am outraged that someone can reach out from 50 years ago and destroy a man’s life with no proof except that it’s now PC to do so. We watched the lies during the Kavanaugh hearing trying to destroy a good man’s career and life with no proof, and no memory even. Now, because “me too” is trending, everyone who feels they were “abused” in some way is jumping on the band wagon. Without actual proof, it is wrong, even a sin, to ruin a man’s reputation and livelihood. And I’m sorry that proof can’t be had from 50years ago, but that’s just too bad then. You can’t destroy someone based on a memory. How can it even be answered., It’s all he said, she said. And that’s not good enough. If it did happen, it’s unfortunate. But there is no way that anyone can be held liable for it now. This Safe Sport has gone too far. I am disgusted.

This will not be a popular stand here, but I agree with the above post. What we are talking about is equal to sitting in judgment in 1950 (many of you were around in 1950!) on events from 1899. THAT is how far removed we are now from that distant day and its entire social context. If you would like to read, in depth, about the cultural background in which these alleged event(s) took place, please read this article straight through to the end: https://quillette.com/2019/08/10/the-rise-of-drag-kids-and-the-death-of-gay-culture/ First-hand historical detail about Studio 54 and more with emphasis on how free-wheeling it all was at that time and why that is equally unimaginable today.

The law may arbitrarily place the age of consent today at 16, 18, 21, the way things are trending it may soon hit 26! That is actually an historical anomaly; in just about all early cultures, women were considered marriageable post-puberty, and the Bar Mitzvah or equivalent for young men happened at 13 for a reason. Sexually mature older teens are not physically or mentally the same as “children,” and I think repeatedly branding GHM a “pedophile” right now is out of line; totally different levels of agency there. Rife speculation and gossip aside, until either SafeSport or someone else comes forward with the specifics of this allegation, WE DON’T KNOW what the issue was with GHM or when it took place. “Misconduct” could be an inappropriate relationship because it involved both age difference and power disparity, but that is neither the definition of rape nor pedophilia. And anyone paying attention knows #metoo is very much a moving target that erupted extremely recently. Many things are now considered “abuse,” just like in riding itself, that 50 years ago very few even thought about. We also know people can be wrongly accused; that’s why “Thou shalt not bear false witness” is one of those Commandments that could use dusting off.

It’s a sad fact of human nature that when dealing with sports legends, music stars, movie luminaries, or the rich and powerful who can make or break others’ rarefied dream careers, the “casting couch” is a lure. There are just as many young people (even their parents!) who think the ends justify the means to reach “the top” and bask in the limelight of that fame and fortune as there are “stars” whose human weakness or sense of entitlement takes advantage of it. If we were to memory-hole the work of every actor, model, musician, sportsman or even writer who exchanged sex for preferment, there honestly wouldn’t be much left to watch on TV. We seem to be in a strange, post-religious cultural moment where we elevate ordinary, flawed, weak humans as “gods,” and anoint them with perfection, then a few years later take great delight in ripping them down like wolves from the very pedestals we put them on to begin with.

As the participants in this thread have thinned out after 90+ pages, it’s quite noticeable that a majority of the remaining claim personal childhood abuse. Without in any way diminishing the experience of ANY victim, it must also be noted that such would be automatically excluded from jury selection in a case like this because any objectivity is impossible.

[Peggy]

@Crashing Boar

This will not be a popular stand here, but I agree with the above post. What we are talking about is equal to sitting in judgment in 1950 (many of you were around in 1950!) on events from 1899. THAT is how far removed we are now from that distant day and its entire social context. If you would like to read, in depth, about the cultural background in which these alleged event(s) took place, please read this article straight through to the end: https://quillette.com/2019/08/10/the-rise-of-drag-kids-and-the-death-of-gay-culture/ First-hand historical detail about Studio 54 and more with emphasis on how free-wheeling it all was at that time and why that is equally unimaginable today.

The law may arbitrarily place the age of consent today at 16, 18, 21, the way things are trending it may soon hit 26! That is actually an historical anomaly; in just about all early cultures, women were considered marriageable post-puberty, and the Bar Mitzvah or equivalent for young men happened at 13 for a reason. Sexually mature older teens are not physically or mentally the same as “children,” and I think repeatedly branding GHM a “pedophile” right now is out of line; totally different levels of agency there. Rife speculation and gossip aside, until either SafeSport or someone else comes forward with the specifics of this allegation, WE DON’T KNOW what the issue was with GHM or when it took place. “Misconduct” could be an inappropriate relationship because it involved both age difference and power disparity, but that is neither the definition of rape nor pedophilia. And anyone paying attention knows #metoo is very much a moving target that erupted extremely recently. Many things are now considered “abuse,” just like in riding itself, that 50 years ago very few even thought about. We also know people can be wrongly accused; that’s why “Thou shalt not bear false witness” is one of those Commandments that could use dusting off.

It’s a sad fact of human nature that when dealing with sports legends, music stars, movie luminaries, or the rich and powerful who can make or break others’ rarefied dream careers, the “casting couch” is a lure. There are just as many young people (even their parents!) who think the ends justify the means to reach “the top” and bask in the limelight of that fame and fortune as there are “stars” whose human weakness or sense of entitlement takes advantage of it. If we were to memory-hole the work of every actor, model, musician, sportsman or even writer who exchanged sex for preferment, there honestly wouldn’t be much left to watch on TV. We seem to be in a strange, post-religious cultural moment where we elevate ordinary, flawed, weak humans as “gods,” and anoint them with perfection, then a few years later take great delight in ripping them down like wolves from the very pedestals we put them on to begin with.

As the participants in this thread have thinned out after 90+ pages, it’s quite noticeable that a majority of the remaining claim personal childhood abuse. Without in any way diminishing the experience of ANY victim, it must also be noted that such would be automatically excluded from jury selection in a case like this because any objectivity is impossible.

Is there anything in the article linked in this post about adults having sex with 13-year olds? If there was, I missed it.

[smoofox]

@Crashing Boar

This will not be a popular stand here, but I agree with the above post.

In other news, the sky is blue. And George Morris is a bully.

It makes me cringe to see posters talking in elaborately verbose circles to make excuses for GM - at all costs. Toss in a liberal dose of victim-blaming - and poor, dear GM is apparently an innocent lamb.

You would also be eliminated from a jury selection in this case with your overwrought need to chastise, sneer and assert that GM should not have been ripped down like wolves from the very pedestal I never put him on to begin with.

This process /investigation has been going on for 18 months. GM has known about it. Now I understand why the annual GM clinic in June at the farm next door never happened. He knew what was coming down the pipe. How I miss listening to him berate riders at the top of his lungs!

SS does not need to provide any of us with “specifics” - nor do they rely on, as you dismissively call it, “rife speculation and gossip”. GM knows the “specifics”.

You still have a very flawed view of the entire process and seem to be clinging to that outlook rather desperately.

BTW - my abuse was not when I was a child - and I am sure that somehow that means (according to you) I was to blame, asked for it, deserved it, made it up, whatever…

[MHM]

@Crashing Boar

This will not be a popular stand here, but I agree with the above post. What we are talking about is equal to sitting in judgment in 1950 (many of you were around in 1950!) on events from 1899. THAT is how far removed we are now from that distant day and its entire social context. If you would like to read, in depth, about the cultural background in which these alleged event(s) took place, please read this article straight through to the end: https://quillette.com/2019/08/10/the…f-gay-culture/ First-hand historical detail about Studio 54 and more with emphasis on how free-wheeling it all was at that time and why that is equally unimaginable today.

The law may arbitrarily place the age of consent today at 16, 18, 21, the way things are trending it may soon hit 26! That is actually an historical anomaly; in just about all early cultures, women were considered marriageable post-puberty, and the Bar Mitzvah or equivalent for young men happened at 13 for a reason. Sexually mature older teens are not physically or mentally the same as “children,” and I think repeatedly branding GHM a “pedophile” right now is out of line; totally different levels of agency there. Rife speculation and gossip aside, until either SafeSport or someone else comes forward with the specifics of this allegation, WE DON’T KNOW what the issue was with GHM or when it took place. “Misconduct” could be an inappropriate relationship because it involved both age difference and power disparity, but that is neither the definition of rape nor pedophilia. And anyone paying attention knows #metoo is very much a moving target that erupted extremely recently. Many things are now considered “abuse,” just like in riding itself, that 50 years ago very few even thought about. We also know people can be wrongly accused; that’s why “Thou shalt not bear false witness” is one of those Commandments that could use dusting off.

It’s a sad fact of human nature that when dealing with sports legends, music stars, movie luminaries, or the rich and powerful who can make or break others’ rarefied dream careers, the “casting couch” is a lure. There are just as many young people (even their parents!) who think the ends justify the means to reach “the top” and bask in the limelight of that fame and fortune as there are “stars” whose human weakness or sense of entitlement takes advantage of it. If we were to memory-hole the work of every actor, model, musician, sportsman or even writer who exchanged sex for preferment, there honestly wouldn’t be much left to watch on TV. We seem to be in a strange, post-religious cultural moment where we elevate ordinary, flawed, weak humans as “gods,” and anoint them with perfection, then a few years later take great delight in ripping them down like wolves from the very pedestals we put them on to begin with.

As the participants in this thread have thinned out after 90+ pages, it’s quite noticeable that a majority of the remaining claim personal childhood abuse. Without in any way diminishing the experience of ANY victim, it must also be noted that such would be automatically excluded from jury selection in a case like this because any objectivity is impossible.

I don’t usually bother to reply to post like this, but I will make an exception here. And for the record, I could serve on any jury on the subject. That is my great good fortune.

Go to any USEF horse show right now. Today, tomorrow, next week. Any show you like. Go to the pony ring. Look on the schedule, and watch the medium pony hunter division show. According to the current USEF rules, any rider in the regular medium pony division must have a maximum show age of 14. Depending on when the birthday falls on the calendar, some of them actually could be 15, and still have a show age of 14. You watch that medium pony division, and tell me that any kid in that class could be considered old enough to be in a relationship with an adult. I don’t care which kid it is, I don’t care what the laws are in that state, I don’t care about any extenuating circumstances.

You watch the medium pony division, and tell me which of those pony kids is old enough to be in that kind of a relationship with an adult. This year, last year, next year, a hundred years ago, a hundred years from now.

Which kid on a medium pony?

Go ahead. I’ll wait.

[ladyj79]

@HoolieB

Believe me, I am embarrassed about how I let the celebrity of GM affect my perception.

sorry hoolie, my comment was for the person above you who fired being on a team as being indicative of intelligence or morality. (I know that wasn’t intended vhm, but for the peanut gallery it’s important to remind everyone)

[ladyj79]

@Crashing Boar

This will not be a popular stand here, but I agree with the above post. What we are talking about is equal to sitting in judgment in 1950 (many of you were around in 1950!) on events from 1899. THAT is how far removed we are now from that distant day and its entire social context. If you would like to read, in depth, about the cultural background in which these alleged event(s) took place, please read this article straight through to the end: https://quillette.com/2019/08/10/the-rise-of-drag-kids-and-the-death-of-gay-culture/ First-hand historical detail about Studio 54 and more with emphasis on how free-wheeling it all was at that time and why that is equally unimaginable today.

The law may arbitrarily place the age of consent today at 16, 18, 21, the way things are trending it may soon hit 26! That is actually an historical anomaly; in just about all early cultures, women were considered marriageable post-puberty, and the Bar Mitzvah or equivalent for young men happened at 13 for a reason. Sexually mature older teens are not physically or mentally the same as “children,” and I think repeatedly branding GHM a “pedophile” right now is out of line; totally different levels of agency there. Rife speculation and gossip aside, until either SafeSport or someone else comes forward with the specifics of this allegation, WE DON’T KNOW what the issue was with GHM or when it took place. “Misconduct” could be an inappropriate relationship because it involved both age difference and power disparity, but that is neither the definition of rape nor pedophilia. And anyone paying attention knows #metoo is very much a moving target that erupted extremely recently. Many things are now considered “abuse,” just like in riding itself, that 50 years ago very few even thought about. We also know people can be wrongly accused; that’s why “Thou shalt not bear false witness” is one of those Commandments that could use dusting off.

It’s a sad fact of human nature that when dealing with sports legends, music stars, movie luminaries, or the rich and powerful who can make or break others’ rarefied dream careers, the “casting couch” is a lure. There are just as many young people (even their parents!) who think the ends justify the means to reach “the top” and bask in the limelight of that fame and fortune as there are “stars” whose human weakness or sense of entitlement takes advantage of it. If we were to memory-hole the work of every actor, model, musician, sportsman or even writer who exchanged sex for preferment, there honestly wouldn’t be much left to watch on TV. We seem to be in a strange, post-religious cultural moment where we elevate ordinary, flawed, weak humans as “gods,” and anoint them with perfection, then a few years later take great delight in ripping them down like wolves from the very pedestals we put them on to begin with.

As the participants in this thread have thinned out after 90+ pages, it’s quite noticeable that a majority of the remaining claim personal childhood abuse. Without in any way diminishing the experience of ANY victim, it must also be noted that such would be automatically excluded from jury selection in a case like this because any objectivity is impossible.

yeah dude, just cause it’s probably you. shocker.

[ladyj79]

That petition is hilarious. And clearly not one person has actually read the safe sport rules and procedures. It’s really hilariously shameful legit stupid so many people in our sport are. this has gone well beyond ignorance.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Peggy

Link - https://www.change.org/p/donald-j-trump-safe-sport-reform-petition-advocacy-for-george-morris-and-all-usef-members

It was started by Sherry Pace.

An excerpt from the petition:
“Below is a bullet point list of the constitutional issues that need to be addressed:

1. The right to know the charges and your accuser/accusers.
2. The right to counsel.
   3.The concept of timely,civil proceedure .
   4.The acknowledgement of statute of limitations.
   5.The distinction of felony and misdemeanor of charges.

In addition the process needs to be more in line with other organizations that have to handle similar situations.”

I believe that #1 and the sentence after the first list are incorrect. 🤦🏼*♀️

  I thought this was a spectacularly badly written petition. I’m pretty sure the respondent knows the charge and the identity of the accuser and has right to counsel; not clear what 3 means; would be nice to spell procedure correctly; not sure what what is meant by 5.  

I suppose they want SafeSport to have a statute of limitations.

[Crashing_Boar]

@MHM

I don’t usually bother to reply to post like this, but I will make an exception here. And for the record, I could serve on any jury on the subject. That is my great good fortune.

Go to any USEF horse show right now. Today, tomorrow, next week. Any show you like. Go to the pony ring. Look on the schedule, and watch the medium pony hunter division show. According to the current USEF rules, any rider in the regular medium pony division must have a maximum show age of 14. Depending on when the birthday falls on the calendar, a few of them actually could be 15, and still have a show age of 14. You watch that medium pony division, and tell me that any kid in that class could be considered old enough to be in a relationship with an adult. I don’t care which kid it is, I don’t care what the laws are in that state, I don’t care about any extenuating circumstances.

You watch the medium pony division, and tell me which of those pony kids is old enough to be in that kind of a relationship with an adult. This year, last year, next year, a hundred years ago, a hundred years from now.

Go ahead. I’ll wait.

Obviously, and goes without saying. My hope is that when it all comes out in the wash, the finding will be that GHM’s relationship was with someone of the age of consent, who consented. I honestly don’t think the man is STUPID enough to have raped a 13-year old. Just because someone was a live-in student, it does not automatically follow that he was being predated at age 13 by George. My hope is that he was 16 plus. I make no apologies whatsoever for pedophilia.

A reminder: As of now no one but SS knows and they aren’t saying.

What I DO know is that on FB and IRL an impressive list of horse pros of stature have put their names (and therefore reputations and businesses) on the line coming out in public defense of George. People who’ve known him personally all their lives and worked alongside him all the way back to that time, vs.concern trolls who have no connection whatsoever.
To me, that speaks volumes, and drove my insufficient attempt to provide a more balanced perspective here.

[ladyj79]

@YankeeDuchess

I suppose they want SafeSport to have a statute of limitations.

No they want it to just go away so they can have their rapists and pedos to worship. Awesome. great folks.

[vineyridge]

Anyone one here read the allegations against Placido Domingo? They are basically about the Casting Couch.

Crashing Boar, whether or not the culture was different 50 years ago, or whether or not society’s views on sexual maturity in people were different, or whether or not homosexuality was legal or not legal, using a position of power over someone’s future–whether directly or by grooming-- to obtain sexual access is extortion. It was wrong then and it is wrong now.

[anon6003733]

del

[ohnoO]

Don’t flame me for this because I am just playing the devil’s advocate here…

I’m talking all professions, the coaches of any sport, the Harvey Weinstein’s, the professors, the CEO’s, the Bill Cosby’s, the priests, etal., if it isn’t for this, then what is in it for them?

I know they are not all pedophiles, but I would bet my bottom dollar that they are all narcissists, and what good is power if it doesn’t reward you with the sexual experience you want?