George Morris - Showjumping Dumbed Down-- Response to Katie Preudent

[Lexie55]

I kind of remember GM saying something just as sh!tty about 2’6" hunter riders a few years back. That “talentless amateurs” jumping less than 3’6" were ruining the sport.

He and Katie can both kiss my a$$. I am a 50 year old amateur trying to have fun. My mom and dad couldn’t pay for nice horses growing up so I watched little b!tches like Lisa Druck (i.e. Ryelle Hunter) with horses that were so expensive they got killed for the insurance money, and watched the latest rich kid from suburban NYC win the medal and maclay every year, albeit from afar because I didn’t have the money to play the game. Every life choice I have made since I was 13 years old was made with the end goal of being able to have a nice horse and go to horse shows. Well, GM and KP, I now have the money - but not the youth, fitness, or ability - to go ride, and if I want to buy a $50,000 horse to truck around a .9 meter jumper class, it’s my da#n money and I’ll spend it how I please. Would you be happier if I went and bought a western pleasure horse, or spent my money on a 4D barrel horse? Because that’s all I’m physically capable of doing now that I spent 12 hours a day for the last 30 years riding a desk and building a business.

Sorry to be late to this party, but I’m spitting nails reading how I suck and I’m ruining her beloved sport by going to little local shows and doing the best I can. God forbid I should want to have a little fun before I die.

[kirbydog]

@Lexie55

I kind of remember GM saying something just as sh!tty about 2’6" hunter riders a few years back. That “talentless amateurs” jumping less than 3’6" were ruining the sport.

He and Katie can both kiss my a$$. I am a 50 year old amateur trying to have fun. My mom and dad couldn’t pay for nice horses growing up so I watched little b!tches like Lisa Druck (i.e. Ryelle Hunter) with horses that were so expensive they got killed for the insurance money, and watched the latest rich kid from suburban NYC win the medal and maclay every year, albeit from afar because I didn’t have the money to play the game. Every life choice I have made since I was 13 years old was made with the end goal of being able to have a nice horse and go to horse shows. Well, GM and KP, I now have the money - but not the youth, fitness, or ability - to go ride, and if I want to buy a $50,000 horse to truck around a .9 meter jumper class, it’s my da#n money and I’ll spend it how I please. Would you be happier if I went and bought a western pleasure horse, or spent my money on a 4D barrel horse? Because that’s all I’m physically capable of doing now that I spent 12 hours a day for the last 30 years riding a desk and building a business.

Sorry to be late to this party, but I’m spitting nails reading how I suck and I’m ruining her beloved sport by going to little local shows and doing the best I can. God forbid I should want to have a little fun before I die.

RIGHT ON SISTER!!! You are my favorite kind of client! No body tries harder than an earnest adult rider who finances themselves. You do it for the love of your horse, for fun, and for competition against not only other A/A’s but your self

[Texarkana]

Does anyone else feel like we’re at an awkward equestrian holiday dinner at this point? :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P37xPiRz1sg

[vineyridge]

Speaking of Morris’s thoughts, the Aachen Nations Cup ran today. Germany finished first on three double clears, and the US and Switzerland tied for second with eight faults each. Both McLain Ward and Laura Kraut had double clears for the US. Horse and Hound didn’t mention the results for the rest of the US Team.

Just looked at the result on the Aachen site. Beezie was the drop score with eight faults each round, and Kent Farrington had 8 faults in the first round and a clear in the second round.

We sent the team that GM was talking about–the really big guns. The ones who are competitive with the best of the rest of the world.

[AltersAreUs]

@Lexie55

Would you be happier if I went and bought a western pleasure horse, or spent my money on a 4D barrel horse? Because that’s all I’m physically capable of doing now that I spent 12 hours a day for the last 30 years riding a desk and building a business.

I think they’d be happier if you bought that $50,000 horse and gave it to them (or a younger version of them) to ride … oh, and spend that showing money sending them to those A shows instead of yourself.

Used to be that those of us who couldn’t face the big fences financially supported (sponsors, co-owning, etc) those who could. Now, we say “no thanks” and spend the money on ourselves. That’s what a lot of that “fearful talentless amateur” & low fences grumping reads as to me …nothing more than sour grapes that those of us who CAN afford nice horses are spending that money on our own fun instead of supporting someone with the talent who Prudence thinks deserves to be at an A show.

[2bayboys]

Please allow me to play devil’s advocate.

As the parent of two 20-something young adults who, thanks to me and my support, are currently well educated and financially self supporting contributors to society, I have a question for Morris and Prudent and all the others who complain about young people being soft, entitled, and spoiled.

WHY should I financially and logistically enable my child to reach the top of your sport? What does your sport have to offer my kid, who is smart, talented, and committed enough to excel in whatever direction he may choose?

Does your sport offer financial stability? A secure future? How about benefits such as basic retirement plans and healthcare? Does fame at the top level of your sport ensure lucrative endorsements? Does it translate to respect for the profession that is transferable to other careers? Does it offer the opportunity to serve others who are less fortunate?

Tell me again how my kid is not “good enough” to be at the top of your sport and I might just tell you that your sport is not deserving of my kid, except solely as a form of recreation and personal enjoyment.

This H/J sport does a crap job of selling itself to the general public, and these articles are just the latest examples of how and why.

[veritas]

While I respect GM, his era was a different time. If he brags about being “tough” and toughening his students… he flipped my trainer and his junior jumper when my trainer was young and training with GM. My trainer has too much respect to say anything negative, but his mother (also my trainer) has said that the horse “was never right” again afterwards and was later sold. I have ridden in a few clinics with GM, and this was always at the back of my mind because he can set up some challenging exercises, although I think he has mellowed with age. If something got too sketchy, I wouldn’t want to put my horse at risk. Does that make me “soft”? Or perhaps not ambitious enough? So be it.

[hb]

@AltersAreUs

I think they’d be happier if you bought that $50,000 horse and gave it to them (or a younger version of them) to ride … oh, and spend that showing money sending them to those A shows instead of yourself.

Used to be that those of us who couldn’t face the big fences financially supported (sponsors, co-owning, etc) those who could. Now, we say “no thanks” and spend the money on ourselves. That’s what a lot of that “fearful talentless amateur” & low fences grumping reads as to me …nothing more than sour grapes that those of us who CAN afford nice horses are spending that money on our own fun instead of supporting someone with the talent who Prudence thinks deserves to be at an A show.

I’m beginning to think this has a lot to do with it. I think some of these trainers are resentful that wealthy amateurs are spending money on themselves, pursuing goals that some consider not worthy, rather than sponsoring a pro in the higher classes.

[AffirmedHope]

@veritas

While I respect GM, his era was a different time. If he brags about being “tough” and toughening his students… he flipped my trainer and his junior jumper when my trainer was young and training with GM. My trainer has too much respect to say anything negative, but his mother (also my trainer) has said that the horse “was never right” again afterwards and was later sold. I have ridden in a few clinics with GM, and this was always at the back of my mind because he can set up some challenging exercises, although I think he has mellowed with age. If something got too sketchy, I wouldn’t want to put my horse at risk. Does that make me “soft”? Or perhaps not ambitious enough? So be it.

I really don’t understand why not wanting to have multiple head concussions and broken bones means that we are “soft” and don’t work hard. Why is a rider wanting to take a sip of water during a lesson so horrible? Would these trainers rather they pass out (actually probably yes, so they can scream at them and call them lazy and entitled to make themselves feel big and important). Why should I pay $$$$$ a month to these people to get fat shamed and called names when I don’t get an exercise perfect on the first try? That’s not teaching/training, it’s verbal abuse and it floors me that people pay so much money for such treatments.

Excuse me for not wanting to be crippled or having severe memory problems at 40 because of my hobby.

[poltroon]

[quote="“LuvRedHeads,post:8,topic:434956”]

@hillary again

I liked George’s response a lot. It’s not about riding nutty horses, or who has a lot of $ and who does not.

What he said: “The comfortable, well-to-do people of the 50’s and 60’s, up to the 80’s, their parents wanted it tough. Their parents wanted the trainers to be tough. Now if you look twice at a kid, often the parent criticises the trainer and takes the kid to another trainer – they want soft. It’s a cultural thing, the parents want it soft – it’s not the child’s fault, it’s their upbringing.”

This is not a problem unique to riding. My husband coached high school football and wrestling in competitive programs for 20+ years. The last few years all he did was complain about the work ethic of the kids and how annoying and intrusive the parents had become. I heard the ‘back in my day’ speech more times than I can recount before he finally quit coaching and took up golf.

I don’t know what the answer is. I just know it is not limited to the horse world. It is a broader change in society that we are largely unaware of until we deal with the after-effects.[/QUOTE]

I think it’s worth asking ourselves though if everything in the past was better, or if some of that shit was just stupid.

I’ll rag on football for a moment, though someone has already posted an article. What is it that’s good about school having organized whack-kids-on-the-head lessons that interfere with them getting their math homework done again? Is football really the best use of the typical kid’s energy and time? I think that’s a thing we as society are reconsidering, and not just for football.

They’re remembering how it was in their day and they remember themselves as survivors. They don’t know about or don’t remember the kids who failed in those systems, the kids who not only didn’t become elite athletes but maybe also didn’t finish high school and were left without a lot of future. And they aren’t thinking about some of the coaches who egregiously abused the power they had over kids. This too is a Thing.

I love what Denny wrote. Kids are individuals. Circumstances matter.

Some parents suck. I completely reject the idea that parents never sucked before the 1990s or whenever our current benchmark is.

Honestly if anything I think the general trend is for more balance and more recognition that sports should be lifelong activities and sustainable and meant to be good for the athlete, not that the athlete is a disposable cog to be ground up for the good of sport. Not young human athletes… and not equine ones either.

[alternate_universe]

@nutmeg

It was practically a job requirement to be able to stay up all night waking up your concussed rider in the hospital.

What. The. Hell.

Please tell me you are not trying to imply that getting traumatic brain injuries are somehow indicative of being a good rider/better than other riders? That is nothing to brag about.

[ladyj79]

@poltroon

I think the general trend is for more balance and more recognition that sports should be lifelong activities and sustainable and meant to be good for the athlete, not that the athlete is a disposable cog to be ground up for the good of sport. Not young human athletes… and not equine ones either.

10 heart emojis.

[Allusion]

I love the discussion that’s happening in this thread.

When I read the article I was taken aback. God forbid that horseback riding be accessible at any level! I am that “fearful, talentless amateur” that she rags on; I achieved my goal of showing gasp 3’ this year, and it’s my goal to show 3’6" (you know, the level that “used to be” the kid’s division) and I can tell you right now that it isn’t going to happen tomorrow or maybe not even next year… but I can also tell you that I’m going to work my arse off to achieve my goal. HOWEVER - this is my life, it’s my money. I work full time and ride 5 days a week to enjoy riding and I want to enjoy it, not be berated for being a talentless ammy.

I feel like others have said everything I want to say in a much more eloquent manner, and I want to shout out to @Lexie55 for this awesome post:

“I kind of remember GM saying something just as sh!tty about 2’6” hunter riders a few years back. That “talentless amateurs” jumping less than 3’6" were ruining the sport.

He and Katie can both kiss my a$$. I am a 50 year old amateur trying to have fun. My mom and dad couldn’t pay for nice horses growing up so I watched little b!tches like Lisa Druck (i.e. Ryelle Hunter) with horses that were so expensive they got killed for the insurance money, and watched the latest rich kid from suburban NYC win the medal and maclay every year, albeit from afar because I didn’t have the money to play the game. Every life choice I have made since I was 13 years old was made with the end goal of being able to have a nice horse and go to horse shows. Well, GM and KP, I now have the money - but not the youth, fitness, or ability - to go ride, and if I want to buy a $50,000 horse to truck around a .9 meter jumper class, it’s my da#n money and I’ll spend it how I please. Would you be happier if I went and bought a western pleasure horse, or spent my money on a 4D barrel horse? Because that’s all I’m physically capable of doing now that I spent 12 hours a day for the last 30 years riding a desk and building a business.

Sorry to be late to this party, but I’m spitting nails reading how I suck and I’m ruining her beloved sport by going to little local shows and doing the best I can. God forbid I should want to have a little fun before I die."

[kirbydog]

@poltroon , I love your comment about football. The rules and equipment have changed considerably from “back in the day”. While it is still a dangerous, fast game, rules are implemented to protect the players. Think of all the irreversible damage that has been done to the players, indeed, deaths of many. Does that make the current players less capable? No, as a matter of fact, most of the old timers, even in their hay day, could not play the game like today’s professionals.

I think the same holds true for our sport at its upper levels. Sure there were the few freakishly talented horses that could probably compete at today’s standards, but it is so much more technical now. Courses are designed for horses, to ask questions of partnerships, but not to kill anybody.

The part about the water/baby just pisses me off. If you have ever had heat stroke, it’s a big deal. You can die from it.

The people at the top should be working as ambassadors for our sport, not behaving like the elitist snots that they are. God bless Mclain <3, he is a great example of work ethic and talent

Seems that I am ranting, sorry:D

[SendenHorse]

I very much dislike GM, really. I think he is very knowledgable but I don’t like how he delivers his message.

I never found the “hard luck” school to be long-term effective. At some point you run out of steam and burn out, maybe the rich can just replace horses. I don’t know…

[skyon]

@"poltroon

]I’ll rag on football for a moment, though someone has already posted an article. What is it that’s good about school having organized whack-kids-on-the-head lessons that interfere with them getting their math homework done again? Is football really the best use of the typical kid’s energy and time? I think that’s a thing we as society are reconsidering, and not just for football.

I’m equally amazed at how football turned into whack-a head. Safety equipment making people think they were safe…with less sprinting and fitness and more bulk and whack-a-head. Irony.

Sports use kids energy. It’s a necessary thing. The best is when there is a medium but for sure safety is going to be more an issue, especially with healthcare and cost of college etc. Just don’t make it so safe that you forget why it was a sport.

We used to have lots of swimming and diving by me. The main reason my mom wanted me to swim was so I would know how to do it and not drown. All diving, long gone. Swimming has become shallow water with slides. Slides becoming so amusement park oriented for cash that they are in the news for killing kids. Full circle.

@kirbydog

@poltroon ,

The part about the water/baby just pisses me off. If you have ever had heat stroke, it’s a big deal. You can die from it.

I have had heat stroke. I am prone to it… I have helped someone who I found passed out from it. This is where I understand that statement. When people are not adequately prepared in the first place and they then expect all bars to meet their inadequate condition. On top of which people cater to said person’s pocket book vs note the reality that maybe they aren’t all that prepared.

if this were horses, sure you can buy any horse, but not every horse is a suitable ride for everyone and if you get out of breath and constantly need water ( on a reasonable cool day) and your horse needs xxxx prep before you step on, hey, go for it… Just don’t lower the bar for everyone if something goes wrong and you should have been capable,

I remember having a casual conversation 20 yrs ago in an arena when a woman mentioned she broke her neck/back. She blamed herself since she hadn’t announced to the trainer that she would ride her horse, and therefore the horse wasn’t prepped/aced. Not where I expected the conversation to go, lol, but , at least that was a mutually understood agreement, but not one without risk.

[CarrieK]

@Lexie55

Sorry to be late to this party, but I’m spitting nails reading how I suck and I’m ruining her beloved sport by going to little local shows and doing the best I can. God forbid I should want to have a little fun before I die.

I’m right there with ya! :: thumbs up ::

[Jumphigh83]

@ladyj79

Is Denny Emerson ever wrong?

No.

where are my ten heart emojis???

Deny has made it abundantly clear his dislike of GM. He’s openly mocked H/J riders (weak, soft, coddled from not running xc) in his many (mostly excellent) editorials. While he’s very articulate, he’s not without his own set of prejudices. Just setting the record straight.

[beowulf]

@Jumphigh83

Deny has made it abundantly clear his dislike of GM. He’s openly mocked H/J riders (weak, soft, coddled from not running xc) in his many (mostly excellent) editorials. While he’s very articulate, he’s not without his own set of prejudices. Just setting the record straight.

I agree. I’ve known Denny a long time and was his WS back in HS. I learned so much from him but I think you need to take anything he says with a grain of salt - Denny loves to rile the crowd :winkgrin:

Denny is a little different than GM or say, Jimmy Wofford, in that Denny does love a soft HJ rider who is a hard worker… he’s mocking the system that produces these riders, not the individuals. Denny also puts his money where his mouth is - he’s taken many “less privileged” kids under his wings and given them his tutelage (including me!). Whereas GM and JW, it’s all about the money…

[Foxtrot_s]

Denny Emerson and Jimmy Wofford - (eventers of course) - but they give the impression of being on the rider’s side, not scorning them for struggling with finances…or name calling. Sorry - life is real and life is earnest, but support goes a long way. Of course, only a small percentage of any of these riders makes it to the big time - and all through hard work.