George Morris

[bumknees]

[QUOTE=Dispatcher;3673040]

I find it odd that GM is so revered for what is typically called “bad behavior”. Other greats in the horse world don’t act like that. Call it brutally honest if you want, in reality it is just bad behavior[/QUOTE]

I wish more would practice ’ bad behavior’ in all walks of life. Today we tend to soften things so peoples feelings do not get hurt or people are not offended… Good ol Pc… If it were me I would rather head an honest blunt assesment of somehting over candy coating it. If that is ‘bad behavior’ then so be it… But blunt doesnt leave aything for interpertation perhaps more people in the real word should go back to practicing ‘bad behavior’.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=horseless no more;3673101]
I wish more would practice ’ bad behavior’ in all walks of life. Today we tend to soften things so peoples feelings do not get hurt or people are not offended… Good ol Pc… If it were me I would rather head an honest blunt assesment of somehting over candy coating it. If that is ‘bad behavior’ then so be it… But blunt doesnt leave aything for interpertation perhaps more people in the real word should go back to practicing ‘bad behavior’.[/QUOTE]

That sound good in principle, but in reality, there are ways to teach all that don’t include being insulting.
That is the difference, that some can teach without coddling, just being professional and don’t have to be putting their students and their horses down to make their point.

If more students would have walked off when he started to teach like that, he would have learned better teaching methods, that’s all.:yes:

[Mav226]

[QUOTE=Beverley;3671895]
The bigger problem, I think we might agree, is that no one proceeds beyond crest release any more- no one has for some time, seemingly. The winners of the big eq classes have won for how many years with crest release? Can anyone remember the date of the last winner using what is now called automatic release? Apologies for the digression…[/QUOTE]

I was yelled at (on almost a daily basis) in college for a ‘sloppy release.’ After many frustrating years, we videotaped said ‘sloppy release’ only to discover that what the instructor was calling sloppy was, in fact, an automatic release. After watching the video, I tried doing a lesson using a crest release (which was awkward, as I wasn’t used to doing it). The instructor beamed with pride at my apparent sudden turn around. When asked why I wasn’t allowed to do an automatic release, the response I received was, “What do you mean when you say ‘automatic’?”

My point is, even some of the best trainers don’t realize the progression GM intended. Worse, some don’t even recognize an automatic release for what it is.

[MHM]

Just out of curiosity, how many people commenting on GM’s behavior have actually seen him in action in person?

I’ve only had first-hand experience with him occasionally for the last dozen years or so, but in that time, I’ve never heard him say or do anything in a teaching situation that struck me as inappropriate.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=MHM;3673209]
Just out of curiosity, how many people commenting on GM’s behavior have actually seen him in action in person?

I’ve only had first-hand experience with him occasionally for the last dozen years or so, but in that time, I’ve never heard him say or do anything in a teaching situation that struck me as inappropriate.[/QUOTE]

Maybe he has mellow in his later years?
All of us do change and learn thru our lives and it is good he has done so also.

[lauriep]

EVERYONE can take away something from GM’s message. NOT everyone has the mental toughness to do so. He wants it right, he doesn’t want excuses, he will NEVER fault you if you try to do what he tells you, and I’ve NEVER seen him be wrong in his assessment of a problem, either with horse or rider. He will NOT say anything about your weight unless it is affecting your ability to ride WELL. Heck, I am trying to get it together to finally ride in a clinic of his (he is my DEAR friend, but my knees knock just thinking about it). I am 55, somewhat overweight and I haven’t ridden for over a year. BUT, I want to actually be able to learn and ride at the same time. My game plan is to join the gym and get stronger, take lessons from someone who can teach me the exercises I will need to know, and have a horse who I can trust enough to be able to concentrate on my riding. Yet, even with all this preparation, I know that I am fair game for him. But it is SO WORTH IT.

Kids today ARE coddled too much, in the effort to never have a loser, level the playing field, etc. But they are done a disservice, IMO, because they never learn to lose gracefully, win humbly and come back fighting after a loss. They also don’t develop a “self-esteem” shell to allow them to not take personally a harsh personality such as GM (although I don’t consider him such) and filter out the MESSAGE that is so important. The horse business is TOUGH and you can’t be a shrinking violet and be successful. If you want someone who is going to sugarcoat everything and spoonfeed you, then GM is not for you. But neither is the horse business.

[Ware_Whip]

@MHM;3673209

Just out of curiosity, how many people commenting on GM’s behavior have actually seen him in action in person?

I’ve only had first-hand experience with him occasionally for the last dozen years or so, but in that time, I’ve never heard him say or do anything in a teaching situation that struck me as inappropriate.

Touche`! I have never seen him be un bussinessman like .

[boosma47]

Anyone who attends a GHM clinic and comes away ‘hurt’ and upset because he was ‘mean’ shouldn’t attend in the first place!

There is a reason he has been so successful, why he is the icon he is. He has worked for everything he has gotten, worked hard. I can imagine he has been much harder on himself than on anyone who has ridden with him.

GHM has defined the best of the H/J and Eq world. He has the right to point out where details and preserverence, committment and respect are lacking.

He has been a guiding star in my horse career, from the '50s and '60s to the present. I have lessoned with him, audited his clinics and still learn from him.

When my son rode with him for a few lessons at Hunterdon, GHM encouraged his enthusiasm and was interested in his opinion regarding the following lessons.

He always has followed up, in person, phone calls and notes. He remembers people who have worked with him.

Long live Goerge Morris!

[Sonesta]

[QUOTE=MistyBlue;3672015]

A few years ago (3 or 4?) he could still ride the hide off a horse too…despite age, wear & tear and a bad cold at that time. he certainly didn;t just talk the talk when he hopped up on that grinchy mare full of tricks at the EA clinic in MA. :winkgrin:
Someone on here had a video of that…anyone remember who that was? Could they post that one again? I’d love to see it again.[/QUOTE]

OMG! Was the mare a big bay TB named Jodi? I sold that mare as a very green bean 4 months off the track to a lady up east who two years later rode her in a GM clinic. I have the video.

The mare was being a cow and GM got on her and told owner he had renewed respect for her ability to handle her. Then he proceeded to work her over those fences. She refused on him more than once.

I need to find that old VHS and convert it to upload. He did a GREAT job with her.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Ware Whip!;3673336]
Touche`! I have never seen him be un bussinessman like .[/QUOTE]

GM is a great person in many ways and more accomplished with horses than most anyone we care to mention in his field.

That doesn’t mean that he is beyond criticism about some things, like the students that would get sick before a class, or those that left in tears.
Maybe not today, his reputation probably weeds those students before they even think of participating and maybe he IS better today with his formerly seemingly harsh criticism.

We have several other well thought of instructors and coaches, you name them, like De Nemethy, Le Goff and many others that don’t have that reputation.
I think that is what some here are trying to point out.
Sometimes, where there is smoke, there is fire after all.

[poltroon]

I can take tough and brutal honesty, but I think some of these people with tough reputations are quite different in a clinic situation, where they make a snap impression in five minutes and stick with that for a weekend, than in a long term coaching situation where they are working with a rider on a regular basis for months. I think in clinics, sometimes these high end clinicians get a little cynical, assuming that the rider is there to bask in glory rather than to learn. I’m sure some riders are. But they can be quick to assume the worst of the rider sometimes.

It probably matters too that GM used to clinic in addition to running Hunterdon with his regular students, and judging, and all that, so the clinic was more of a sideline. Today clinics are a larger part of his activity, and so maybe he’s come to enjoy them a little more.

[theoldgreymare]

@Bluey;3673445

We have several other well thought of instructors and coaches, you name them, like De Nemethy, Le Goff and many others that don’t have that reputation.

And there were several BNT’s of GM’s generation who were considered as tough as GM. The two that come to mind (now deceased) demanded the same excellence from their students and their students were as competetive on a national level as GHM’s. GM is not the first trainer to reduce a student to tears and will certainly not be the last. Those that don’t like his brutally honest criticism should stay home.

[dalpal]

[QUOTE=findeight;3671958]
Accepted…I am usually pretty general on here. And am on call today with no official life and the knowledge if I start anything, the phone will ring. So B-O-R-E-D. Cold too:no:.

Anyway, the absolute worst I personally heard him do was rip into this one young 20 something. After failing to complete several excercises, he told her to add more leg, horse kicked out. He told her to repeat and add spur…and she halted and said “horse is very sensitive TB and does not respond to leg, spur or whip”…:eek:

Well…he lambasted her for the horse’s lack of respect and response to the aids. Got on her for failing to understand basics, failure to teach the horse to and failure to ride consistently then expect to do complicated excercises in his clinic…and turn around and give the excuse the horse was too sensitive. He also said if they are not broke (to the aids) and you cannot get them that way, you have no business jumping and less in his clinic.

Please note that many in there were on lesser horses, less well dressed and, even, one that was a little heavy, that was the only one that brought out that side of him. And he was RIGHT if not too PC.[/QUOTE]

Well hell, I gotta agree with him…how the hell do you ride a horse that doesn’t respond to any aids??? I think she should have probably spent her money sending the horse to a trainer rather than a clinic.

[boosma47]

[QUOTE=Sonesta;3673419]
OMG! Was the mare a big bay TB named Jodi? I sold that mare as a very green bean 4 months off the track to a lady up east who two years later rode her in a GM clinic. I have the video.

The mare was being a cow and GM got on her and told owner he had renewed respect for her ability to handle her. Then he proceeded to work her over those fences. She refused on him more than once.

I need to find that old VHS and convert it to upload. He did a GREAT job with her.[/QUOTE]

The one I recall was a grey Riverman mare. There may have been a bay, as well, in a different session.

He sure didn’t shrink from a challenge!

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=theoldgreymare;3673623]
And there were several BNT’s of GM’s generation who were considered as tough as GM. The two that come to mind (now deceased) demanded the same excellence from their students and their students were as competetive on a national level as GHM’s. GM is not the first trainer to reduce a student to tears and will certainly not be the last. Those that don’t like his brutally honest criticism should stay home.[/QUOTE]

Just because others also taught a little too tough on the students still doesn’t make it right, really.
Many didn’t then and don’t today and turn out just as good, accomplished students.

Anyway, that seems to be now water under the bridge of time, for what others say of GM’s later teaching.

[LochNessD]

No, George Morris INVENTED Chuck Norris.

[Tilly]

[QUOTE=LochNessD;3673746]
No, George Morris INVENTED Chuck Norris.[/QUOTE]

That’s right! After all, there is a similarity in the last name :winkgrin: It explains everything!

[Pat]

@Mav226;3673207

I was yelled at (on almost a daily basis) in college for a ‘sloppy release.’ After many frustrating years, we videotaped said ‘sloppy release’ only to discover that what the instructor was calling sloppy was, in fact, an automatic release. After watching the video, I tried doing a lesson using a crest release (which was awkward, as I wasn’t used to doing it). The instructor beamed with pride at my apparent sudden turn around. When asked why I wasn’t allowed to do an automatic release, the response I received was, “What do you mean when you say ‘automatic’?”

My point is, even some of the best trainers don’t realize the progression GM intended. Worse, some don’t even recognize an automatic release for what it is.

Dear GOD!! That is so beyond sad… Hey, wait aminute… Am I having a bad senior moment, or did you go to VIC? EEK. Please refressh my sad memory. This upsets me.

It’s a well known fact that the dude can be harsh. If you ‘bring it’, then he doen’t have much to rag on you for, now does he??

He’s not a complete a$$. The fella who was the handy man at the Leones (I must assume he’s retired now) used to drive the boys from Franklin Lakes to thier lessons at Hunterdon. He told me in 1996 that now many YEARS later some of the same grooms are STILL THERE. How much of a jerk can he really be if people stay in his employ for so long?

[kellidahorsegirl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UggOc7mVRzY

here’s a vid of GM riding a bay mare at a thing
“Top hunter/jumper trainer George Morris rides Sloane Coles’ mare at his 2007 Horsemastership Training Session.”

don’t know that this is the one everyone else is talking about, but its something to see him go. If you search George Morris on youtube, you get quite a few options for viewing him giving the lessons or riding a student’s horse

I would LOVE to clinic with GM,but I can’t afford it and while I think I’m pretty tough, i havea feeling I couldn’t handle what he’d say to me HAHA Just being honest. I’d definitely love an opportunity to audit him though.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Pat;3673823]
Dear GOD!! That is so beyond sad… Hey, wait aminute… Am I having a bad senior moment, or did you go to VIC? EEK. Please refressh my sad memory. This upsets me.

It’s a well known fact that the dude can be harsh. If you ‘bring it’, then he doen’t have much to rag on you for, now does he??

He’s not a complete a$$. The fella who was the handy man at the Leones (I must assume he’s retired now) used to drive the boys from Franklin Lakes to thier lessons at Hunterdon. He told me in 1996 that now many YEARS later some of the same grooms are STILL THERE. How much of a jerk can he really be if people stay in his employ for so long?[/QUOTE]

All you have to do to see where the crest release is today is look thru any of the COTH issues.
Those pictures don’t lie.

No one is saying GM is not very good or just with his comments, just that his delivery used to have something to be desired.

Glad to know that his helpers stayed with him, that speaks well of him and of his helpers and the success he has had.
No one training more than a few horses stands alone, it takes a good team.:yes: