German Requirements for a Licensed Stallion

[Kyzteke]

In a discussion about breeding and mare testing I was having w/a friend of mine (also a WB breeder), she mentioned that “In Germany, a mare cannot produce an approved stallion unless she has been performance tested (MPT or via showing). It’s been the law for years.”

True or false?

I was not aware of this, but she is pretty knowledgeable about these things. Let me be clear - I am not talking about a simple APPROVAL of a mare like we do here. She meant an actual jumping/riding test – a MPT.

I just went through 2 mos of TRYING to get one of my mares in a MPT w/no luck, and I’m sure I’m not the only breeder out there who faces this challenge.

Do the American branches of the German/Dutch registries have this rule?

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7048150]
In a discussion about breeding and mare testing I was having w/a friend of mine (also a WB breeder), she mentioned that “In Germany, a mare cannot produce an approved stallion unless she has been performance tested (MPT or via showing). It’s been the law for years.”

True or false?

I was not aware of this, but she is pretty knowledgeable about these things. Let me be clear - I am not talking about a simple APPROVAL of a mare like we do here. She meant an actual jumping/riding test – a MPT.

I just went through 2 mos of TRYING to get one of my mares in a MPT w/no luck, and I’m sure I’m not the only breeder out there who faces this challenge.

Do the American branches of the German/Dutch registries have this rule?[/QUOTE]

Contact Alexandra, she knows the ins and outs, as well as Aurum…

But I am inclined to say it’s not quiet correct, but the requirments vary from registry to registry, and many of the laws have been scrapped. After all, it used to be illegal for a private, non state stud entity to own and stand stallions, regardless of qualification. Private stallions are a rather new thing…

But the mare would probably have to be first and foremost have a complete pedigree, dating back at least 5 generations with no <unknown> for dams, and something like Staats premium as inspection grade.

mares have never really been ridden much past initial starting and maybe lower end tests, after all, if it’s good enough in the shed, why waste precious years under saddle…

But the two ladies mentioned above can actually tell you the current situation.

[alexandra]

There was /is a rule and I am not sure whether it was/is just hanoverian or german wide that a stallion out of an untested mare had to have a better test himself. Need to check in the stallion licensing catalogue, there was something about it. As said: no idea if this rule is still in place or not.

[alexandra]

Found something in catalogues of 2004:
stallions out of dams born after 31.01.1989 can only be provisionally added to hanoverian stallion book 1 as 3 or 4 yo, if their result of the 30 day test is above the average in that test.

They changed the homepage of the Verband and honestly all these things that could be found there sort of vanished or are hidden. Do not like the new HP…
I guess the above rule is not in place anymore - at least could not find anything about it anymore.

[Blume_Farm]

This is for the AHS, so not German, but I believe the parameters are similar. I will check my books from my courses when I get home as I know it was covered. Obviously, this only pertains to the Hanoverian.

One of several requirements for AHS breeding approval is that a stallion’s sire and the sires of the five female ancestors in the direct dam’s line of the stallion must belong to the AHS’s own breeding population or to a recognized breeding population approved by the AHS (six generations altogether). The dam must be entered in the AHS or HV Main Studbook or belong to a recognized breeding population. Her dam (the second dam) must also be in the Main Studbook or belong to a recognized breeding population, or if she is a Thoroughbred, Arabian or Anglo-Arabian mare that is not in the Main Studbook she must have scored an overall seven (7.0) and be in the AHS Studbook. The third dam (the great-granddam) on the dam’s side must at least be in the AHS Studbook or belong to a recognized breeding population. Under certain circumstances the rules placed into effect in 2008 will permit an AHS-registered Main Studbook F1 Hanoverian mare (i.e. a mare with a Hanoverian sire and Thoroughbred dam) to be a stallion mother. The conditions are that the F1 mare herself must have scored at least an overall seven (7.0) or better on inspection, and her Main Studbook or Studbook Thoroughbred dam must have accomplished the same qualifying overall score in addition to the necessary subscore of 7 or better for impulsion and elasticity (the trot). Additionally, as of 2008, AHS Main Studbook Thoroughbred, Arabian and Anglo-Arabian mares are now eligible to produce stallion candidates as they are in Germany. It is recommended that the dam have taken the Mare Performance Test.

[Blume_Farm]

This is for the AHS, so not German, but I believe the parameters are similar. I will check my books from my courses when I get home as I know it was covered. Obviously, this only pertains to the Hanoverian.

One of several requirements for AHS breeding approval is that a stallion’s sire and the sires of the five female ancestors in the direct dam’s line of the stallion must belong to the AHS’s own breeding population or to a recognized breeding population approved by the AHS (six generations altogether). The dam must be entered in the AHS or HV Main Studbook or belong to a recognized breeding population. Her dam (the second dam) must also be in the Main Studbook or belong to a recognized breeding population, or if she is a Thoroughbred, Arabian or Anglo-Arabian mare that is not in the Main Studbook she must have scored an overall seven (7.0) and be in the AHS Studbook. The third dam (the great-granddam) on the dam’s side must at least be in the AHS Studbook or belong to a recognized breeding population. Under certain circumstances the rules placed into effect in 2008 will permit an AHS-registered Main Studbook F1 Hanoverian mare (i.e. a mare with a Hanoverian sire and Thoroughbred dam) to be a stallion mother. The conditions are that the F1 mare herself must have scored at least an overall seven (7.0) or better on inspection, and her Main Studbook or Studbook Thoroughbred dam must have accomplished the same qualifying overall score in addition to the necessary subscore of 7 or better for impulsion and elasticity (the trot). Additionally, as of 2008, AHS Main Studbook Thoroughbred, Arabian and Anglo-Arabian mares are now eligible to produce stallion candidates as they are in Germany. It is recommended that the dam have taken the Mare Performance Test.

[Kyzteke]

Of course I agree that a dam who produces a licensed stallion must have a complete pedigree – farther back than 5 generations would be my choice.

But many of us breeders here in the hinderlands do not have access to a MPT, or the registry we are involved with don’t offer one here in America. And showing is SO expensive.

If I think a filly I bred is so nice I would like to breed her on, I would like to have her evaluated by registry officials & tested, but for some of us it’s just not possible.

Yet another challenge facing American breeders…:o

[Sundance]

It’s only been the Hanoverians, that preferred MPT to promote it and increase the amount of information for their own breeding value calculations.
No other German studbook ever required MPT for the dam of a licensed stallion.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7048229]
Of course I agree that a dam who produces a licensed stallion must have a complete pedigree – farther back than 5 generations would be my choice.

But many of us breeders here in the hinderlands do not have access to a MPT, or the registry we are involved with don’t offer one here in America. And showing is SO expensive.

If I think a filly I bred is so nice I would like to breed her on, I would like to have her evaluated by registry officials & tested, but for some of us it’s just not possible.

Yet another challenge facing American breeders…:o[/QUOTE]

well, I know of breeders of non-Han horses kind of laughing about the 5 generation thing, since at the time (late 70s, early 80s) that put the Hanoverian horse right into heavy WB territory! We are talking plow horse heavy, with heads as big as barns!

other registries have different requirements.

[horsey1cr]

[QUOTE=Blume Farm;7048216]
This is for the AHS, so not German, but I believe the parameters are similar. I will check my books from my courses when I get home as I know it was covered. Obviously, this only pertains to the Hanoverian.

One of several requirements for AHS breeding approval is that a stallion’s sire and the sires of the five female ancestors in the direct dam’s line of the stallion must belong to the AHS’s own breeding population or to a recognized breeding population approved by the AHS (six generations altogether). The dam must be entered in the AHS or HV Main Studbook or belong to a recognized breeding population. Her dam (the second dam) must also be in the Main Studbook or belong to a recognized breeding population, or if she is a Thoroughbred, Arabian or Anglo-Arabian mare that is not in the Main Studbook she must have scored an overall seven (7.0) and be in the AHS Studbook. The third dam (the great-granddam) on the dam’s side must at least be in the AHS Studbook or belong to a recognized breeding population. Under certain circumstances the rules placed into effect in 2008 will permit an AHS-registered Main Studbook F1 Hanoverian mare (i.e. a mare with a Hanoverian sire and Thoroughbred dam) to be a stallion mother. The conditions are that the F1 mare herself must have scored at least an overall seven (7.0) or better on inspection, and her Main Studbook or Studbook Thoroughbred dam must have accomplished the same qualifying overall score in addition to the necessary subscore of 7 or better for impulsion and elasticity (the trot). Additionally, as of 2008, AHS Main Studbook Thoroughbred, Arabian and Anglo-Arabian mares are now eligible to produce stallion candidates as they are in Germany. It is recommended that the dam have taken the Mare Performance Test.[/QUOTE]

This makes my head spin.

[DownYonder]

OHBS/GOV rules for stallion licensing/approval can be found here (beginning on page 11 of the PDF).

http://oldenburghorse.net/upload/pdfs/OHBS-GOV-RuleBook.pdf .