German vet discusses flawed breeding and issues with movement

[JB]

@Bluey

That was a strange comment on cattle nutrition?

It wasn’t really, I guess I just didn’t make my thought process clear.

I’m not talking about the nutritional content of silage/haylage, I’m talking about the differences in what cattle can eat vs horses from a health perspective.

Haylage for horses is really not done much in the US. My “not the healthiest” comment was about the stuff that’s questionable for horses, and therefore, is by default also not the healthiest for cattle. That’s not the same as saying “haylage isn’t healthy for cattle”

Some people absolutely to try to feed haylage/silage to their horses, and get it from people who SAY it’s for horses, but it’s really questionable quality to start with, from a safety perspective, no matter who you’re feeding it to.

US - doesn’t do haylage much for horses, and those who do are often - IME - not doing it well enough
Europe - a lot more horse-quality haylage is produced.

[Bluey]

@JB

It wasn’t really, I guess I just didn’t make my thought process clear.

I’m not talking about the nutritional content of silage/haylage, I’m talking about the differences in what cattle can eat vs horses from a health perspective.

Haylage for horses is really not done much in the US. My “not the healthiest” comment was about the stuff that’s questionable for horses, and therefore, is by default also not the healthiest for cattle. That’s not the same as saying “haylage isn’t healthy for cattle”

Some people absolutely to try to feed haylage/silage to their horses, and get it from people who SAY it’s for horses, but it’s really questionable quality to start with, from a safety perspective, no matter who you’re feeding it to.

US - doesn’t do haylage much for horses, and those who do are often - IME - not doing it well enough
Europe - a lot more horse-quality haylage is produced.

That makes sense.
Here every fall we know to give feedlot managers a break as they are very stressed putting silage up.
Silage is their insurance for the whole year that they will have a steady good supply of roughage for their rations, is how important silage is.

For horses, I guess if there was a demand, someone would produce it, as they say they have suppliers that do in Europe.

[Willesdon]

Haylage and hay are both conserved grass, obviously, but the methods used are different. Hay is mature grass left out in the sun to dry and is about 85% or above dry matter. Haylage is cut younger, left to wilt for a short time then baled and wrapped up tight in several layers of plastic to keep out oxygen and prevent mould, so it is 50-70% dry matter. Good hay requires good weather as damp hay doesn’t store well and will go mouldy so can’t be given to horses. Given the uncertain UK weather, haylage is often a better, safer way to produce fodder as it is quicker and will have less dust and possible mould. Haylage is drier than silage. Silage brings greater risk of colic and botulism when fed to horses. Vit E disappears quickly once grass is cut, regardless of conservation.

[DownYonder]

@Willesdon

Haylage is drier than silage. Silage brings greater risk of colic and botulism when fed to horses.

Thanks, I was wondering what the difference was between haylage and silage. What I saw in Germany at many establishments was referred to as silage, but it was being fed to the horses so I wonder if it was a simple translation issue. There were often huge mounds of it just outside the barns, covered tight with plastic (often weighted down with tires), and giving off a slightly “sweet” aroma.

[Willesdon]

That does sound more like a silage clamp. Haylage in the UK is generally sold in bags as it will go off if not used within three days or so.

[sascha]

@Willesdon

Haylage is drier than silage.

Not in North America. Hay for haylage (packed piles covered in plastic, or bagged in long, white, plastic “sausage casings” and corn for corn silage are both ensiled around 60 - 65%

If we’re talking about hay for baleage, it is baled and wrapped at 45 - 55% Baleage can also look sort of like haylage if it’s done in rounds and the wrap is continuous, but the sausages of haylage are much bigger diameter and end up quite flat on the bottom.

[MapleBreeze]

Haylage is made out of grass silage is made out of corn.

[Scribbler]

@MapleBreeze

Haylage is made out of grass silage is made out of corn.

I think there is grass silage as well. The difference between silage and haylage is how wet and perhaps how fermented it is. I understand the wet climate in Britain makes haying a challenge so they’ve moved towards haylage for horses. But there are lots of dry belt areas to make hay in North America so we’ve stuck with hay. But lots of cows get silage here

[sascha]

@MapleBreeze

Haylage is made out of grass silage is made out of corn.

No. Corn silage is silage made out of corn. Haylage is silage made of hay. Both are ensiled products. Both can be called silage. It’s just that haylage is easier to say than hay silage where corn silage rolls off the tongue.

If a farm makes both they are clearly differentiated as corn silage and haylage (and not simply silage and haylage) so that feeding charts are accurate and those mixing batches of feed on farm know how much of each ensiled product is required in the mixer. It seems like a stupid little thing, but it is important

[sascha]

@Scribbler

silage and haylage is how wet and perhaps how fermented it is

Nope. Haylage is just the easier version of saying hay silage or alfalfa silage. It’s treated exactly the same as corn silage. The only thing is that it’s slightly more of a pain in the ass to harvest and pack.

[Scribbler]

@sascha

@Scribbler

silage and haylage is how wet and perhaps how fermented it is

Nope. Haylage is just the easier version of saying hay silage or alfalfa silage. It’s treated exactly the same as corn silage. The only thing is that it’s slightly more of a pain in the ass to harvest and pack.

In Britain they distinguish quite clearly between silage, which is soupy and only good for cows, and haylage which is still visibly green grass and suitable for horses. The word haylage was totally new to me when I took a UK based nutrition Coursera, and I’ve never seen either haylage or silage IRL. But because it was a new word for me I asked about and tried to get my head around the idea you’d be feeding basically lightly fermented green hay the total horror in my world.

[bdj]

So is ChaffHaye alfalfa silage?
https://chaffhaye.com/
I remember looking into it several years ago for my grumpy old man. Turns out there are a handful of local-ish dealers in my area and now I’m wondering if it would be something to consider for the grumpy old lady…

[omare]

In my youth I worked at a racehorse yard in Ireland and they tried to make baled hay. It was a disaster as they had to bust open all the bales they were so wet and got so hot they were afraid of a fire! I can see why hay-silage might be a better choice if properly made. I assume with modern tools to test moisture content etc at baling they can get pretty scientific about it. (Also interesting about the botulism being less of an issue in Europe-but regardless you can vaccinate for it?)

[quietann]

Tractor Supply sells Alfahay, which is labeled haylage. It seems to be very similar to Chaffhaye in that it’s mostly alfalfa and has been lightly fermented. Prices are around $21- $24 per 50 pound bale, with Alfahay being on the lower end of that range.

[bdj]

Thanks @quietann! That’s good to know if I decide to give it a shot!
I also noticed that Tractor Supply is now carrying Santa Cruz products (though they’re online only). Doesn’t look like the pricing is any better than going direct through Santa Cruz, but it’s nice to have options.

[CanteringCarrot]

Baleage? Hm. That’s a new one.

We always reffered to haylage (a wrapped round bale) as just haylage. I’ve not heard baleage in the Germany or in the UK.

[sascha]

@Scribbler

silage, which is soupy

Soupy? No silage should be “soupy”.

@bdj

So is ChaffHaye alfalfa silage?

Yes.

@CanteringCarrot

We always reffered to haylage (a wrapped round bale) as just haylage. I’ve not heard baleage in the Germany or in the UK.

In NA, it distinguishes between hay that’s been chopped before packaging into giant bags or bunkers or tiny horse bags (haylage) and hay that destined for wrapped bales which may or may not have been chopped (baleage).

Baleage is the coolest thing ever. When you open a bale of not chopped baleage in the dead of winter, it’s like opening a bale of summer hay that’s just been cut, not even dried in the sun at all, literally as though you followed behind the mower and grabbed an arm full. That said, it’s a pain in the ass because it’s usually done in desperate times (sudden weather changes right after cutting/equipment problems/bagger rental not available) and is done in large bales that have to be fed very quickly. On small - medium dairy farms that can be a giant headache that no-one wants. Chopped baleage in med-large squares would be the easiest option.

All that said, whatever ensiled hay is called it’s all the same thing whether chopped or not, bagged or baled - it’s all fermented hay.