Getting more entries at Kentucky 5*

[beowulf]

Are those events seeing more participation than ever before because they are the only event remaining in a previously saturated market? Or is it because at ground level, there are more competitors now than 10 years ago? Is it both?

It’s my impression that the pool of UL riders is shrinking. We’ve lost a lot of stalwarts in the last 15 years, we’ve lost a ton of legacy events, and many of the UL riders have swapped to other disciplines or stepped down from the level but still coach. I also think that increasing costs have pushed riders that might have found themselves close or on the cusp of UL away – as well as owners who could have put a nice horse on the payroll for an UL rider.

I’m in Area 1. I haven’t gotten the impression our sport is bigger than it was twenty years ago. The competitor pool seems stretched over fewer venues, driving up participation in these events because they no longer have multiple options to choose from.

I have noticed that events that previously had a big field of moderate level riders (Training - Prelim) now might have one division instead of two to three like days of old. However, I suspect we’ve lost a few competitors to better climates like Area 2 or 3.

[athelas]

In the last 7 years at UL, just off hand: Philippa Humphreys died, we all know what happened with EDH, Kim Severson, Madeline Backus, Caroline Martin, Woodge Fulton, Holly Jacks Smithers, Holly Payne Caravella, Sinead Halpin, Lainey Ashker, Lynn Symansky, Joe Meyer don’t have 5* horses currently, Alyssa Phillips broke her ankle and is out for a while.

And that’s not even the riders who are choosing to hop over and ride Badders instead.

I think we’ll see more entries in the 5* in the coming years as riders who didn’t necessarily have a huge string come back up the levels.

[trakehners]

IMO the lack of a string is a huge part of it - there’s more than a handful of genuinely competent “small name” pros that are capable of riding at the level, but the horse (and financial) pipeline isn’t there for them, and when something goes wrong or circumstances change… say goodbye to another 5* run for potentially years.

My trainer has successfully completed Kentucky in the last ten years. She hasn’t had another 5* horse since the first one due to a combination of selling to invest in her business for the long term (in the form of building an indoor and barn addition with the proceeds from the sale of her next top horse to another 5* rider’s string), EDM resulting in her having to euthanize her homebred mare, and a career-ending KS diagnosis.

Every one of her clients and our vet would love to see her back at the 5* level, but none of us really have the financial ability to support her in that beyond what we already pay in training and lesson fees. There aren’t the deep pockets for any of us to be owners and she’s had multiple sponsors offer to work with her and then drop her a short time later because we’re in a weird corner that’s “too far” from the core parts of Area 2 (even though she travels all over to compete). Combine that with COVID cancellations of events and some things in her personal life that essentially kept her out of competition for over a year, and that’s a lot of potential horse development and support lost.

Curiously, nearly every person I know (of which there are many) who left my former trainer’s program (H/J) has made the switch to eventing. I can only think of a couple of exceptions. I don’t know how many of them have the drive (or financial ability) to go beyond Training at maximum, but at least at the lower levels, we’ve got a solid base here and hopefully at least a couple of them will take it further than that.

[Texarkana]

@trakehners

IMO the lack of a string is a huge part of it - there’s more than a handful of genuinely competent “small name” pros that are capable of riding at the level, but the horse (and financial) pipeline isn’t there for them, and when something goes wrong or circumstances change… say goodbye to another 5* run for potentially years.

This is so true.

It has gotten so expensive to bring a horse along to the top. Not that it was ever cheap, but the price keeps skyrocketing.

Plus, now you can’t just go pick up a cheap OTTB and stay on if you want to be competitive. It’s a different sport now. Sure, some still make it to the top, but you can’t compete with these purpose-bred, usually imported eventers putting down sub-30 dressage scores even on their bad days.

I could easily add another dozen names to the list @athelas posted of riders without a 5* horse at the moment.

[athelas]

Oh totally! Those were just the ones that floated up from the top of the 'ol memory hole first

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

This is a thought provoking thread. As with many complex situations, I think there are multiple factors in play… my top choices for lower entries at the Kentucky 5* are Covid impacts on the eventing pipeline and a number of top riders without a horse at the top level right now (including several women who have been in the “foaling paddock” as John Kyle would say). I do categorically object to including EDH in the list in @athelas post as she is kind of in a class by herself - and not in a good way.

I’ve encountered and taken lessons from multiple, successful young eventing pros who I don’t think have it as their overarching goal to get to the 5* level. I think if the right horse with supportive ownership came along, they might try to go all the way to 5*, but they realize it would take a really fortuitous confluence of circumstances for it to happen and otherwise aren’t putting a whole lot of energy into climbing the * ladder. They are busy running their businesses and bringing along projects and teaching lessons and organizing clinics, etc., etc.

As far as people switching to and from eventing - I think at the young rider and amateur level it’s a lot more doable financially to be a serious eventing competitor than a serious hunter/jumper/eq competitor, and that is a draw for some people. For the eventing pros I know personally, I think they tend to love the sport itself - and may appreciate a generally more self sufficient client base than what you typically see in h/j or dressage barns.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

@athelas

And that’s not even the riders who are choosing to hop over and ride Badders instead.

Only two US riders at Badminton this spring: Katherine Coleman with Monberg Senna and Lillian Heard Woods with Barnaby. Lauren Nicholson and Bug were entered but scratched.

I think with the Paris Olympics next year at the end of July, anyone who is seriously vying to make the US team has that goal firmly in mind and is trying to find the balance between staying on the selectors’ radar and applying bubble wrap. I think you’d only go to Burghley this year if you thought you could make a case for yourself as a team possibility by a good showing there (or wanted a Burghley completion more than Paris).

It should be noted I am not an upper level rider, never have been, never will be - might have breathed the same air as a few, but that’s as close as I get so my thoughts are purely conjecture.

[initiate1987]

@Groom_amp_Taxi

Only two US riders at Badminton this spring: Katherine Coleman with Monberg Senna and Lillian Heard Woods with Barnaby. Lauren Nicholson and Bug were entered but scratched.

Isn’t Katherine Coleman also based out of the UK? I think it should also be noted that there are a lot more US riders trying out Pau and Luhmulen in recent years than it seems there were in the past.

[athelas]

I only included her because in that time frame my brain grabbed, she’d ran Kentucky. Hence why I said as much and didn’t include her in the list of riders that don’t currently have a 5* horse–we all know what happened there. I agree re: being in a class of her own and definitely not a good one.

[Jealoushe]

I think there are more grants helping with that too. A bunch are going to Aachen this year, also. A lot of riders are aiming for the Pan Am team, too.

[Bonnie2]

Sorry, it was not intended as a criticism! Not everyone is old enough to remember.

[trakehners]

I talked to my trainer about this tonight because I was curious if we had the same thoughts (and, since I’ve known her since I was a literal child, we did). She listed off a bunch of people who were in her same general (small-name pro) group of competitors during her 5* years (mid-2010s) who have all gone through variations on the exact same thing—they did their run(s) and stepped down their 5* partner, they had the next horse they were bringing up, they made it to 2* or 3* (3* and 4* now), and then something happened and the horse broke (not literally in most cases, just… to a degree that a continued top-level career was neither viable nor fair) or things happened in their personal lives, and they just haven’t been able to claw their way back yet.

She has a yearling that she bought last year and sometimes she’ll say that if anything happens to that horse, she’s quitting because she can’t go through losing another one again. I can’t say I blame her with the way the climate is if you aren’t a big name with a lot of money behind you, especially if you are genuinely a horseperson first and a competitor second.

[SmlHpy1]

As someone that has photographed this event since 2005 I feel the entries have been all across the board through the years. In 2019 we had 41 riders starting XC. That was the last year before the additional 4*. I’ve seen it vary greatly if it’s a selection year. I felt like we were missing some international competitors this year as well. This event is a lot of work to photograph and I was just pondering this weekend in what capacity they limit the total entries across both divisions? I personally miss it being 5* only. But that’s just my opinion.

[emeraldcity]

@SmlHpy1

I personally miss it being 5* only.

Emotionally I do too. But logically I think overall it’s a good thing to have the lower level.

[Marigold]

@SmlHpy1

I was just pondering this weekend in what capacity they limit the total entries across both divisions

They do limit it to four horses per rider (I don’t know if that includes the Grand Prix, but definitely across the eventing divisions). Liz withdrew Cooley Quicksilver because she had four others that needed runs.

[SmlHpy1]

I see, so you could run 3 in 5* and 1 in 4*? I did hear her say something about not being able to enter any more, but I wasn’t sure if it was limited per division or how it worked. I’ve been there with 80-90 horses running XC if I remember right. Photographing all of those was exhausting and that was 5* only, so I’ve kind of wondered what the max number of horses running XC across both divisions might be.

[SmlHpy1]

I find the course hard to navigate with them being intertwined. That’s the hardest thing for me as I’m racing around trying to photograph and not miss a horse/rider.

I heard someone mentioned that KY applied for a 3* but I don’t know if it’s accurate or what the details are. Nor do I know how they’d schedule that. That would be a lot!

[RAyers]

When the top levels are relegated to ultra wealthy owners who support a few professional riders, what should we expect? The quality amateur has been closed out of the sport (as designed per statements from various high level governing officials). Of course the pool is going to get smaller. In my calculation, a true 5* horse now will be close to a $300k initial investment with roughly $75-$100k annual cost. That is beyond stupidity in terms of encouraging new blood at the 5* level.

As mentioned, you still see the perhaps under prepared rider at Badminton and Burghley. However this is how you get prepared! You don’t learn to swim in the baby pool, nor in the schooling ring/at home. The only way to get more going is to accept that unprepared but game riders and horse need to be included. Personally, I am ok with seeing less competency provided they have good mentors. That is how I build future doctors and scientists. A spine surgeon doesn’t learn on cadavers. A metallurgist doesn’t learn on computers. (and, yes, I’ve seen people killed or maimed doing both). Failure does more to teach than success so long as the person has an open mind.

[Marigold]

@SmlHpy1

I see, so you could run 3 in 5* and 1 in 4*?

That is my understanding, yes. None of the riders with 3 in the 5* had an entry in the 4S that would confirm it, but that seems to be the case.

[emeraldcity]

That makes sense! I haven’t been in person since the 4* was added.