What drives me equally crazy is the guilt heaped on people to keep an unsound horse. A person who really deserves to be able to ride, but that is supposed to give up, for the rest of that unsound horses life, that love, and it is called “noble sacrifice” for the good of the horse? What about the person. I don’t think the horse has a clue that he or she is getting put down, and the bleeding hearts that rip people to shreds, or pompously say “I will sacrifice everything for the horse”, remind me of a quote from Shakespeare of the not lamented crazy Richard. When does sanity come into question? It take a great deal of funds and time to care for any horse, why is it more nobler to sacrifice for the horse than it is for the human to have a joy which is critically necessary for their emotional and physical health? If one wants a pet, fine, but a horse is not a dog or a cat. It takes a great deal of effort to have one unless you are wealthy. Should only the wealthy be able to ride and enjoy a hors that way?
Here we go again. Chronicles forum will not let me edit. I mean to say of course “more noble” not nobler.
I to hate to see those ads. For me they scream I don’t want to take care of the horse now that its a problem, but you can.
It’s funny to me when people act like selling horses is a horrid act for not giving the animal a “forever home.” I’m like, how did you your horse? Someone sold it to you? Alright then.
[QUOTE=ChasPonyCat;8998751]
It’s funny to me when people act like selling horses is a horrid act for not giving the animal a “forever home.” I’m like, how did you your horse? Someone sold it to you? Alright then.[/QUOTE]
Indeed, someone sold him to me.
He was 6.
That person who sold him to me, got him for free themselves.
They agreed to take him.
And probably broke even on the deal after keeping him a few months.
But again, he was SIX.
And sound.
And a prospect. Not a has been.
There is a HUGE difference between the 2.
Is it a crime to put out feelers? No.
If you find the ideal situation with people you know well enough to know that they will not do wrong by the retiree… well congrats on finding a needle in a haystack.
But it is not common to do so. And therein lies the rub.
I breed and sell horses and have no expectation that any buyer will provide a forever home. What I do look for in a buyer is someone who will do something with the horse and give it some type of skill set. I acknowledge that one can’t predict future injuries or illnesses, but it often boils down to giving the horse. Training helps protect the horse. I remain befuddled by people who think a horse is valuable without some sort of job skills.
I am lucky in that I have a farm and I have a place to keep the horses. I have a number of my older horses buried there, some dead of natural causes and some euthanized. I’m lucky to have a vet who is pragmatic and will euthanize even though a horse is pasture sound. Euthanasia not that expensive where I am located. I understand the emotions, but my job is to do the best I can by the horse. I owe a good death to my horses just as much as I owe them a good life.
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;8998758]
Indeed, someone sold him to me.
He was 6.
That person who sold him to me, got him for free themselves.
They agreed to take him.
And probably broke even on the deal after keeping him a few months.
But again, he was SIX.
And sound.
And a prospect. Not a has been.
There is a HUGE difference between the 2.
Is it a crime to put out feelers? No.
If you find the ideal situation with people you know well enough to know that they will not do wrong by the retiree… well congrats on finding a needle in a haystack.
But it is not common to do so. And therein lies the rub.[/QUOTE]
My fault for posting unclearly on my mobile device and quickly while getting ready this morning…my comment, the part which you bolded, was intended in response to the prevalent culture of people who believe it is always wrong to sell a horse. I see PLENTY of that on the interwebs…not talking about dumping old horses, but that it is always wrong to sell.
[QUOTE=crosscreeksh;8998563]
THIS is what “Horsemen” do!!! No one else is going to take “good” care of YOUR horse!! Nor should they be asked to!! A lot of the “forever homes” don’t have a clue as to the needs and costs of any horse…let alone an older horse with soundness issues!! Can’t take care/afford to keep your old horse??? Suck it up and give him/her a peaceful, safe end!![/QUOTE]
crosscreek, I usually agree with you but this just sounds ridiculous. You’re saying you’re not a real “horseman” unless you keep every horse you own until death? No one else on earth is capable of providing good care to your horse? Sounds extremely elitist and judgmental.
Honestly asking for opinions …
What about people who give away/inexpensively sell horses that are older and past their prime, but not otherwise unsound? For example, a rider (who boards and can only afford to keep one at a time) retires their 20-year-old horse because it is no longer able to compete at the level they would like, and gives the older horse away to a family that wants a horse for their grandkids to trail ride … and then buys a younger horse to continue competing with. Even if the original owner asks for references, first right of refusal, etc … if the horse is no longer in their possession there is always the possibility the older horse could at some point end up in a bad situation.
So is the rider a “bad horseman” because they chose to rehome the older horse and then get a younger one to continue competing?
What about a rider that buys a 4-year-old as a resale project, and a week later it gets an injury in turnout that will render it only pasture sound for the rest of its life? Must the rider commit to paying its bills for another 20 or more years to be a “good horseman”?
These are both totally made-up rhetorical situations, albeit one that most likely have happened to people plenty of times… but it seems that some are very quick to judge anyone who doesn’t keep every horse they own forever, without taking into account that not everyone has the financial resources they do, or a barn in their backyard for an unsound horse to live out their days without being charged $500 per month on board.
[QUOTE=Sticky Situation;8999009]
Honestly asking for opinions …
What about people who give away/inexpensively sell horses that are older and past their prime, but not otherwise unsound? For example, a rider (who boards and can only afford to keep one at a time) retires their 20-year-old horse because it is no longer able to compete at the level they would like, and gives the older horse away to a family that wants a horse for their grandkids to trail ride … and then buys a younger horse to continue competing with. Even if the original owner asks for references, first right of refusal, etc … if the horse is no longer in their possession there is always the possibility the older horse could at some point end up in a bad situation.
So is the rider a “bad horseman” because they chose to rehome the older horse and then get a younger one to continue competing?
What about a rider that buys a 4-year-old as a resale project, and a week later it gets an injury in turnout that will render it only pasture sound for the rest of its life? Must the rider commit to paying its bills for another 20 or more years to be a “good horseman”?
These are both totally made-up rhetorical situations, albeit one that most likely have happened to people plenty of times… but it seems that some are very quick to judge anyone who doesn’t keep every horse they own forever, without taking into account that not everyone has the financial resources they do, or a barn in their backyard for an unsound horse to live out their days without being charged $500 per month on board.[/QUOTE]
Many have suggested that there are fates worse than euth.
Putting either horse you describe down is always an option [considering your Vet will].
.
[QUOTE=talkofthetown;8998950]
crosscreek, I usually agree with you but this just sounds ridiculous. You’re saying you’re not a real “horseman” unless you keep every horse you own until death? No one else on earth is capable of providing good care to your horse? Sounds extremely elitist and judgmental.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately I see this sentiment expressed often. I’m not sure if there have always been a lot of people who felt this way, if it’s some reflection of societal trends, or if the voices are now just louder because of the interwebs.
I understand people’s sentiments regarding dumping old horses, horses with health issues, etc. Obviously there’s another set of issues there. But yeah, it’s extreme to act like you are only a horseman if you keep every horse for its entire life.
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;8999016]
Many have suggested that there are fates worse than euth.
Putting either horse you describe down is always an option [considering your Vet will].
.[/QUOTE]
I agree 100% … but it’s likely that with either of these cases the horse may not be considered to meet criteria for euthanasia… so then what?
[QUOTE=Sticky Situation;8999009]
Honestly asking for opinions …
What about people who give away/inexpensively sell horses that are older and past their prime, but not otherwise unsound? For example, a rider (who boards and can only afford to keep one at a time) retires their 20-year-old horse because it is no longer able to compete at the level they would like, and gives the older horse away to a family that wants a horse for their grandkids to trail ride … and then buys a younger horse to continue competing with. Even if the original owner asks for references, first right of refusal, etc … if the horse is no longer in their possession there is always the possibility the older horse could at some point end up in a bad situation.
So is the rider a “bad horseman” because they chose to rehome the older horse and then get a younger one to continue competing?
What about a rider that buys a 4-year-old as a resale project, and a week later it gets an injury in turnout that will render it only pasture sound for the rest of its life? Must the rider commit to paying its bills for another 20 or more years to be a “good horseman”?
These are both totally made-up rhetorical situations, albeit one that most likely have happened to people plenty of times… but it seems that some are very quick to judge anyone who doesn’t keep every horse they own forever, without taking into account that not everyone has the financial resources they do, or a barn in their backyard for an unsound horse to live out their days without being charged $500 per month on board.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, people are very black and white about these situations.
When I was doing horses growing up, it was just normal for horses to be bought and sold, and at varying stages of life. At my lesson barn as a kid, there were numerous lesson horses for whom it was a second career. I’m sure the original owner retired the horse from showing/needed a different horse to compete with/any number of situations and thus sold the horse.
Showing horses growing up it was normal for horses to change hands according to rider’s goals. One guy at a barn I worked and boarded at had a nice teenage gelding. He wanted to start showing more seriously and needed a different horse for that purpose. He sold his gelding to a family with kids, and the kids loved the horse, had a great home, etc.
Yeah, any time you sell a horse it could theoretically end up in a bad situation. It seems like taking the extreme point of never letting the horse go for the fear of what MIGHT happen seems a bit extremist.
I am 100% Lucky that my 17yr old retired Intermediate horse and my 34 year old QH can live at home. They also live with a track throw away who is sound due to growing out his feet for a year and some TLC. My old guys are not going anywhere. God forbid I had to sell the farm then I would put both of them down and bury them there.
People asked why I didnt sell my older guy when he retired last year. He was still sound and could easily jump 3’ courses. Well because when he got home from a training level event which was a warm up for the season, he didnt feel 100%. He was sound and he was going fine, but for me something was off. Sure enough, he tweaked his old injury so I made the decision to retire him. I could have masked it and dumped him for a few thousand but why? He gave me more than I could ask for. He did his job and it was time for me to do mine as a good horse owner.
He sits in my pasture and he still gallops like a stupid fool sometimes and I quash the thought of bringing him back when he shows off. He could live for 10 or 20 more years. I have one horse who is going to be 35 this year. He hasnt had someone on his back in 10 years but here he is still keeping weight and kicking along. The thought of dumping either of them has never and will never pass my mind.
Quick story, a large vet clinic has reduced rates for euthanasia in the winter months. Friend is a vet and works there. Horse came in because he required front shoes in the winter and they refused to shoe him. Horse is sound otherwise, nice horse, sweet. Vet pulls him and calls up our mutual friend who is an eventer. In six months horse is rocking around and winning BN/N events in Area II with AA rider. Sometimes it works out. That being said this wasn’t a 25 year old crippled animal, it was an 8 year old, sound with front shoes, TBx.
Owners can say they are looking for options when they post these free crippled horses, but at the end of the day they are either selfish or completely oblivious. If you dont want the crippled horse why would anyone else?
It’s definately a case by case basis on this one.
Personally, my horses are a lifetime commitment.
I don’t think advertising all over FB or CL is a great idea when trying to regime a lame horse but asking your vet, farrier and any friends in the horse community to put the feelers out can work well. I can think of two people who have given great homes to lame horses. One is an older lady who is done with riding but will probably never be done with horses. Her old gelding gets lavished with attention and the gold standard in care. The other is a young family with an autistic kid. Kid has no desire to ride but again that horse gets better care and attention then most.
Guess it depends on your area. Around here know many who thought they could re home horses with limitations, never got a single nibble despite going through all the usual word of mouth channels. In most cases, these owners did not own property or had to sell it, didn’t have unlimited discretionary income to divert to the horse and most had experienced life changes…job loss, illness, divorce, unexpected early retirement or planned retirement from companies that reduced or eliminated the pension plan without enough years left to recover before retiring, even death of the family member involved in horses.
Saying you’ll keep forever is not a black and white path and the only plan owners should have. Need to have exit plans A and B unless you have a crystal ball.
No one has acknowledged that the OP in this case has multiple plans and is not looking to dump her horse.
Every situation is different, each owner has his/her own circumstances. I posted my mare on here as a free lease; she had had two colic surgeries and a nasty bout of enteritis, all in about 2 1/2 years. Did not appear able to get back to the PSG work that I was looking for in my primary horse. But she knew a lot and could be beneficial to lower level rider. It didn’t seem reasonable to offer her as broodmare in spite of very good breeding…
I “advertised” a number of places including facebook, here and locally through GMO. Why would anyone care where I choose to market? Yes, got some iffy answers there, but also found a lovely woman (and a new friend) to ride her for a while at my barn until a formal lease opportunity came up.
So quick to judge without full information…
Don’t think most are judging, just making the topic more general hence educating owners about tough decisions one needs to realize they may have to make if they own horses.
[QUOTE=findeight;8999217]
Don’t think most are judging, just making the topic more general hence educating owners about tough decisions one needs to realize they may have to make if they own horses.[/QUOTE]
True, and really this has opened up a much wider discussion about these issues beyond the post that started the OP and the morals of horsekeeping generally. It’s been pretty interesting reading different viewpoints.
There’s been one going around, slightly different situation as the owner died, and family doesn’t want to keep the horses. But they are two pets, never trained to ride, in their late teens. One is blind and the other serves as his guide. The guide horse is sound with maintenance. IIRC one also is metabolic. And the GUILT to save these poor souls from a horrible fate! Sure, see if you can find a soft spot for them, but quit with the weekly posts threatening to send them down the road if someone doesn’t step up to rescue them. Give them some treats and good scratches and have them PTS. Sucky, but really this is the kind of situation that calls for it.
