If that was my horse I’m not sure I’d have let GM on it - I was waiting for a buck (saw it in the attempted fly change). I’d have been mortified if it had hurt the man. His hands were firm but never jabbing, and it would take some time for the horse to give in, but that’s George - he gets on (without stirrups) and gives it his best. No abuse seen in tht video.
[QUOTE=spirithorse;5343035]
You have no idea what I think.
I apply pressure even bitless, but I damn sure do not apply what GM is. And I was schooled with bits and never allowed to take such a hold…I was schooled to ask release and then take a soft hold then let go…PATIENCE…
If anyone thinks this is ok, then please please let someone do it to you.
Never said a damn thing about coddling the horse, however, if you are expecting a horse to “learn” then you ask and let the horse respond…ask over and over if necessary.
This is not teaching the horse, this is merely making the horse submissive by force not by horsemanship.[/QUOTE]
REALLY??? You are REALLY going to question George’s schooling of a very resistant horse??? I don’t care if you criticize his “insults” of an inattentive rider, but to challenge this man’s ability to TRAIN A HORSE??? You really have crossed the line. He has been training elite level horses since the 40s. Have you done NO reading about hiim and his teachings? He has perhaps the MOST educated hands I’ve ever seen on a rider. But you wouldn’t know that, because you have never actually seen him ride, or heard him teach, or read his books. And YOUR credentials are, what?? You clearly show your lack of knowledge when you think that maintaining steady contact is forceful??? The horse is doing all the gyrations to resist, and George doesn’t MOVE his hands but maintains steady, even contact no matter what the horse does. Please, get educated as to what putting a horse on the bit means before you make yourself look any more like a DUMBELL!!!
I guess I only have one point to make here. There’s a difference between frustrated name-calling, ie “You are a dumbell!” and frustrated description of behavior ie “You are ACTING like a dumbell!”
I’ve found, myself, that descriptive criticism isn’t nearly as offensive as name-calling criticism. "Stop acting like an idiot " sounds a lot less scarring than “You are an idiot.”
George could make his point, scream as loud as he likes, and still not be so scarring to young people. My trainer grew up learning from George, and she was a screamer for years. I finally left for quite a while.
You know what Laurie…people who don’t get George will never get him, and its sort of like arguing with a fencepost…sigh
Yes, I agree, but my hands were getting numb from sitting on them! And it isn’t even getting GM in this instance, it is making asinine statements about the schooling of a horse which is so CLEARLY a non-issue!
AMEN
Well, I would venture a guess that NOT one single person callin GM abusive had an Olympic Medal in their possession…lol
Thank you, well said.
Oh, and to the poster just prior to me…you may want to consider that the tone of your post makes you look really unprofessional. I just went to your website, which is listed on the bottom of your ranting post. It looks lovely. Unfortunately, many people would now have second thoughts about your program, due to your response here on the forum. In your post, you sound very easily threatened by a different point of view. Haven’t we all learned over time that, as horsemen and horsewomen, there is always more to learn? That there is always another method, and that it may be better than ours, worse than ours, or equal to ours—but it’s never a bad thing to add tools to our toolbox?
My last post was for Laurie.
Did you quote the wrong video? Maybe? Hoping…
Because that was a great example of patience when training a young horse to a more advanced level of aids.
Manhandling? I just don’t even see how that can be in the same universe as this…
pretty speechless on this one.
Oh, lordy, lordy! Had to lol at the thought of Laurie’s numb hands - you are doing a better job than me of sitting on them.
Lauriep is one of the few here who know GM (I don’t know how well) and she is entitled to feel annoyed when people make anti- statements to someone she respects.
GM has many students who teach who have some of his knowledge but are not screamers, so there is choice out there. And if you don’t care for classic function and form, try any other trainer for the correct ‘perch’…they pull in ribbons, too, though I don’t know how.
I give up. COTH is just weird this week.
[QUOTE=MissyA84;5342764]
He communicates poorly [/QUOTE]
GM might be a lot of things, but a poor communicator is not one of them. I’ve participated in and audited quite a few clinics in my life and this man is crystal clear. I’ve audited 2 of his clinics and I’m totally gobsmacked by what I learn from him. And, that’s just sitting in the audience.
I think the reverse is true…nobody truly listens anymore.
[QUOTE=spirithorse;5343035]
You have no idea what I think.
I apply pressure even bitless, but I damn sure do not apply what GM is. And I was schooled with bits and never allowed to take such a hold…I was schooled to ask release and then take a soft hold then let go…PATIENCE…
If anyone thinks this is ok, then please please let someone do it to you.
Never said a damn thing about coddling the horse, however, if you are expecting a horse to “learn” then you ask and let the horse respond…ask over and over if necessary.
This is not teaching the horse, this is merely making the horse submissive by force not by horsemanship.[/QUOTE]
You have made it abundantly clear what you think on this BB for quite some time. Your old website as well as your new website makes it very clear what you think and do not think.
I recall a very disturbing picture of you riding a horse over a fence that you had NO balance on and it was far more “abusive” than any riding GM has done. Please do not insult the collective intelligence on this BB by suggesting you have a better handle on training high-level horses than GM. Like him, love him, hate him - I really do not care. Forget the man’s personal life - I’m writing about his riding and training accomplishments - the man is undisputed when it comes to training champions in Eq and jumpers - hunters as well.
What have you done?
I didn’t think so.
[QUOTE=Spartacus;5343153]
My last post was for Laurie.[/QUOTE]
If you hadn’t clarified this, I could have just as easily thought it was directed at the poster to whom Laurie responded.
I concur!
[QUOTE=Spartacus;5343153]
My last post was for Laurie.[/QUOTE]
On most things, yes, Spartacus, I would agree with you. And I have listened to posters taking shots at GM for years now, and that is all good, when referring to his teaching style, mannerisms, whatever. But to challenge his training, no. I know too much about the classical training he has had in dressage, from the GREATS of the discipline, the training he has had, and from whom he developed his system, from the GREAT h/j trainers of our era, and earlier. There simply is no one else with his depth of experience and I won’t stand to have that called into question by someone with NO credentials in evidence. If someone with equal training/experience/capabilities were to question it, maybe some room for discussion. But that isn’t the case, and the video in question is completely innocuous! If you are going to call the man out for being rough, at least find a video to back up your case.
Sorry you don’t like my manner, but I call things as I see them. It in no way affects my ability to care for a horse.
I definately agree with Laurie’ post above and have to chuckle at those that have the absolute audacity to call into question GM’s education and riding ability. He can ride you and me under the table—make no mistake about that.
I have watched a few of the clinics and I have to tell ya that some of the riders act as though they are so out in left field it is scary. Is it any wonder the man starts to hurl insults to wake these riders up.
Here’s another news flash for those so concerned with the “self esteem” and feeling that these riders should be stroked:
At the last clinic I attended, GM asked me why I wasn’t riding. I told him that I was not riding as much as I should and would not have been prepared and that if I didn’t want to get yelled at I should sit it out. He laughed and said “exactly”.
This is a sport like any other. Be fit, be prepared, pay attention, try your best and he will appreciate that.
[QUOTE=mroades;5343138]
Well, I would venture a guess that NOT one single person callin GM abusive had an Olympic Medal in their possession…lol[/QUOTE]
AMEN… that’s exactly what I said…
I know firsthand what it is like to be “insulted” because my trainer is very harsh sometimes if we are not trying or listening. The only thing I do not agree with, is one time my friend did a clinic with GM and called her “too fat to ride.” That was completely uncalled for and VERY rude. Too fat? Please look up Carol Dean Porter and tell me she is too fat to ride. You don’t have to be stick thin to ride and be successful. Carol Dean Porter is an AMAZING rider and she is by no means stick thin. I think when GM said that, he crossed the line. Otherwise, I do not question his riding abilities at all.
