GM is nothing but a bully.

[H_J_Anonymous]

[QUOTE=Lucassb;5337515]
George is not the kind of guy you go to if that kind of comment is going to bother you. If he believed the rider was not trying hard enough or not paying attention or whatever… that is the type of comment he will make.

As hellerkm stated - and pretty respectfully, IMO, so there’s no need for any bashing - this topic comes up pretty much every time GM does a public clinic. Some people shrug and say, “hey, that’s George,” and others echo rileyt and say

(hey, at least GM didn’t use the F word…)[/QUOTE]

Agreed with the above. And I would like to add that the best in every industry is met with opposition and is not always the norm. In order to be the best, you need thicker skin than to let comments like that weigh on you.

I would take it a step further to say the OP is not the best since it bothers her. Do you think GM cares if someone says he is demeaning? Do you think Beezie cares if you think she is dumb or would go home crying or start a post on the Chronicle about it? No.

These adults/young adults are on their way to professional careers that far surpass the ordinary rider. They might even represent our country at some point. No time than the better to get tough!

[Sunnyhorse]

IMHO the tears were because the rider couldn’t do something right and wanted to be the super star of the the lesson…

I don’t doubt that this is true in many cases, but I think it’s unfair to tar everyone with the same brush. (I’m talking in general terms now, not about the people in the Horsemastership clinic.) Who’s to say that those tears don’t represent the rider’s disappointment and frustration with herself because she’s trying but still not getting it right? We are not all naturally talented riders, and Lord knows I’ve had plenty of those lessons myself. I make sure to let my trainer know that it’s my issue and not her I’m reacting to – and then I get back to work.

[sptraining]

[QUOTE=Jumphigh83;5337796]
Yeah I guess it is the trainers BUT there is tremendous pressure on them to have little Suzy or Johnny succeed. The parents spend zillions of dollars on the perfect horses to get results immediately. You don’t learn to ride over night no matter how much $$/success you have…Big dollars means big pressures and big results. Like an old horseman I know used to say (Henry Schurink for those who know him) “America is the land of instant coffee”…No one wants to pay dues, no one wants to earn it, they want to buy it. Those hapless kids are reaping what they (their paretns/trainerrs/etc) have sown. Sad, but true.[/QUOTE]

Yup, and we encourage it…

Not to derail, there’s some interesting talk on Bernie Traurig’s website about what to do to change our sport for the better. There’s been some interesting comments so far. Go post your own.

[KateKat]

okay sorry, but if someone called me a “dumbell” I think I might burst out laughing. That is hardly a bad or insulting word, and can think of many more stinging insults. Plus, as others have said the girl wasn’t doing what he asked. So she got called a dumbell snigger

[sptraining]

[QUOTE=MHM;5337805]
I’ll agree there are wanna-be types who try to use GM style methods without the ability to back it up with results. Hopefully those people winnow themselves out as they produce unhappy customers, rather than successful competitors.[/QUOTE]

I really wish that I say that they have disappeared but they don’t. They just find a new crop of people ever two to four years who believe that this is the only way to learn. Students get put in dangerous situations and have their confidence stripped which only makes them more likely to get hurt.

And this is why I believe we need our USHJA certification process to include teaching as well as riding…

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=KateKat;5337817]
okay sorry, but if someone called me a “dumbell” I think I might burst out laughing. That is hardly a bad or insulting word, and can think of many more stinging insults. Plus, as others have said the girl wasn’t doing what he asked. So she got called a dumbell snigger[/QUOTE]

:lol::lol: :yes::yes:

[findeight]

@dags;5337781

Of course, reading the FULL write up wouldn’t paint any more of the story now would it?

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/2011-george-h-morris-horsemastership-training-session-day-3-whos-afraid-big-bad-water

What, put it in context and read the whole thing??? And spoil the fun???

Oh, whever said other trainers emulate GM in the harshness department? That is his fault because??? Incompetent trainer/instructors get the harsh part without the talent to back it up and he is to blame??? And parents of lower level kids put up with it because???

One more time, thses are not young kids, got into this Master session to prove their talent and ability to go right to the top and they ALL knew exactly what they were getting into. I do not see that anyone, including the “dumbell” left in tears here.

[Bethe_Mounce]

One of the better known trainers in America sat me down and “splained” to me how one gets to the Maclay Finals…I about lost it. I had no idea that “equitation” horses were “leased” for exorbitant sums of $$$$ for a specific season of equitation. I had no idea that there is a waiting list for certain equitation horses. I have always known the short stirrup ponies are leased and passed around from rider to rider. The hundreds of thousands of dollars it takes to get to the finals just about sent me into orbit. There are parents out there willing to pay and have the financial means to pay…more power to them, but they are doing a disservice to their kids…money may buy the win, but it doesn’t buy character and integrity. Who you are matters more than what you have accomplished!

There is tremendous pressure on the equitation trainers for their students to succeed. But a trainer cannot ride the horse for the student or hold their hand while student is riding a course of fences in the show ring.

I see the win purchased all the time. It is like that in many of the riding disciplines…what a shame. Those folks have no clue what they are missing. Then again, for them, it is about winning and collecting the points to get to the finals.

Winning is the icing on the cake. Good horsemanship principles come first. Riding is a priviledge, not a right. I must shut up…otherwise I am going to get more and more long winded!

Great posts and comments by everyone! Seems like there are some issues that need to come to the table with solutions in place. Here on the COTH boards, the problems of the world can be solved, right?

[Rosie]

GM is nothing but a bully.

“GM is nothing but a bully.”
That is where you are wrong. He has a long and respected resume and career that I doubt anyone here would argue with.
He may “bully”. He may push, prod and possibly even insult on occasion. I’ve seen him in clinics make statements I don’t agree with.
But I’ve never seen him mis-represent himself or the type of training you will get in his clinics.

And…was she being a dumb bell?

[Linny]

Is the video archived someplace?

[loshad]

I ride like a drunken monkey and thus would not waste GM’s time clinicing with him, but IIRC the big commandments of riding with him are:

1. Thou Shalt Pay Attention

2. Thou Shalt Try Hard

3. Thou Shalt Make Every Attempt To Do As You Are Told

4. Thou Shalt Be Fit Enough To Perform As An Athlete

Sounds like the girl from the OP violated 3 of the 4. Dumbbell is probably about right.

[BetterOffRed]

[QUOTE=Mara;5337577]
It’s not George’s job to stroke their self-esteem and promote their self-worth. He’s there to help them improve their riding.

His teaching style isn’t for everyone. I couldn’t handle it. But at this point, it’s hardly a secret that he can be harsh and direct with the criticisms. I am sure all those riders had a pretty good idea of what they might expect.[/QUOTE]

If these riders want to make it to young riders to the ‘big show’ they are going to have to handle a lot worse in the real world. They need to get a thick skin now.

I am sure these riders are just like the riders that keep sending in their photos for his critique…it is a badge of honor. Now they have the t-shirt too. I bet they all went back to the barn, had a laugh and compared who got called what by THE GEORGE MORRIS…but I bet they made sure to not repeat the same mistakes the next day. They’ve got 1 week with GM…they need to get it NOW…not on the last day of training.

Personally, I suffer from bad show nerves I need the honest criticism and a little bit of pressure in my training so that I don’t freak in the show ring. That’s why I’ve opted to ride with a judge…and she doesn’t cut me any slack and has called me out on stuff…but I just laugh it off and try harder. I don’t pay to be coddled to have my criticism packaged up for me pretty words- just rip the band aid off and get it over with!

[DLee]

It reminds me of when I’ve seen artists in a workshop get really upset because the instructor <gasp> painted on (or over) their painting or even worse, wiped something out! Omg!
Honestly, the instructor paints better than you, if not, why are you there forking over the money??
I think “dumbell” is pretty mild. In fact I haven’t heard it for a long time. Dumba$$, maybe.

[indygirl2560]

I don’t think it was a big deal. I’m not saying the comment was warranted but that girl just did basically the same circle over and over, barely going in at all. That whole group seemed to have major issues with spirals and following directions in general. When he says make at least 3 circles, getting progressively tighter, wouldn’t you think it would look better if you actually made more than 3?! I mean come on! How hard is that?

[Ibex]

There’s a difference between being tough and being abusive. GM crossed that line a long time ago…

What I did like were the comments that people NEED TO IMPROVE THEIR DRESSAGE. Maybe the message will finally sink in and more people will actually learn to ride.

[sptraining]

@findeight;5337834

Oh, whever said other trainers emulate GM in the harshness department? That is his fault because??? Incompetent trainer/instructors get the harsh part without the talent to back it up and he is to blame??? And parents of lower level kids put up with it because???

I do believe we should try to lead by example. Even adults are impressionable and often fail to use good judgment. It leaves a hole where trainers who are prone to abuse can say, “well he does it and is successful, therefore it’s okay for me to do it.” I’m not saying it’s right or that this is the reason why some trainers are abusive, I’m just saying that it leaves a statement that lesser trainers can hide behind and uneducated parents can use to justify why their kid is being abused daily.

I have ridden with someone who tried to emulate his style, rather unsuccessfully. This person broke more horses than this person helped and destroyed the confidence of students. It doesn’t make it right, it just makes it what happened. And this person has had a rather “successful” (in terms of making money) for longer than I’ve been alive.

If GM was nothing but polite but demanding AND got the results he gets…well that would pretty much eliminate all these threads. His style detracts from his knowledge because we spend time talking about etiquette instead of content.

[MHM]

[QUOTE=Linny;5337854]
Is the video archived someplace?[/QUOTE]

Www.usefnetwork.com/GeorgeMorris/2011/

I haven’t tried to watch the archived ones yet. I hope they work, since I was not near the computer this morning.

[sunshinestate]

Actually I would like to see a clinic where trainers, or so-called trainers, work with George in a riding clinic. (I’m not talking about the Grand Prix Riders of today). Now that would sell some tickets and popcorn.

I would almost bet if 100 trainers were offered a free clinic that was being videotaped orlive streamed that more than half would have something more important to do.

[H_J_Anonymous]

Focus on the Message!

[QUOTE=Ibex;5337869]
There’s a difference between being tough and being abusive. GM crossed that line a long time ago…

What I did like were the comments that people NEED TO IMPROVE THEIR DRESSAGE. Maybe the message will finally sink in and more people will actually learn to ride.[/QUOTE]

This second point is super valid. People are not getting the message because they are so focused on the he said/she said/feelings aspect that the miss the big picture. Rileyt is a prime example.

If these riders are focusing on comments like the dumbell one, they might as well quit now, because they have reached the most successful point in their career now.

IMHO, I hope he continues to cross the line each and every second he does what he does. It is about building better riders and that is what he does. He has more passion for this sport than the majority and he shows it. Go GM!

[MintHillFarm]

Results speak.

Is his style for everyone? Probably not.

But those riders had a choice (or opportunity as many feel) to participate in his clincs/lessons. And given this chance, in his arena, the try has to be 110% or he will likley make it known.

Competitive “anything” is tough. The workplace, sports, and life in general.

No, he is not for the thin skinned. However, his record of training excellent riders as well as teachers has a list many decades old.