Goat folk, good resources? And a buck question~

I recently used a goat-based landscape service to start to clear out a brushy area, and to remind myself what having goats was like.

Well, I’m hooked again :slight_smile:

I’ve bought one of theirs that they were selling, but I’m trying to find a few more. I’m keeping an eye on Craigslist and a few local ag/livestock type FB pages, but so far I haven’t found anything that suits. (They’re letting me keep two others that they want back eventually as company, until I find a couple of my own)

I want big goats - Nubian for a preference (because I love the way they look) but any breed or mix will do. As I’m not breeding for meat or dairy I don’t need registered or top dollar, I basically want nice big muttly goats of any age.

On the various sale pages I’m seeing a lot of Nigerian & Pygmy goats, also a lot of bucks and bucklings. I have no problem with having the boys but not entire - they’d need to be castrated and I haven’t yet found a vet that does livestock other than horses.

So, they boys go cheaply enough, but how do I get them castrated and does it matter if they’ve already been in rut? (As in an older buck, not a kid)

And where else can I find “pet quality” goats that aren’t going for $400 ea?

I’m in central SC, Columbia-ish.

Any info or leads would be much appreciated :slight_smile:

Reported for forum change, 'cuz I’m a dope :stuck_out_tongue:

Okay, if you’re wanting goats as pets, get off of the scrub goat ads. Find local show goat breeders - but don’t be afraid of the high prices and pictures of ribbons and goat boobs.

We all produce an excess of bucklings, and there are only so many pet homes. The rest go for meat generally - so prices tend to stay low, even for high quality wethers. Let the breeder know you are looking for pets that will be cared for like your horse(s) is - we can’t get enough of those homes, they are rare.

You want disbudded kids, at least two, three is better, and you want them from a herd that is tested for CAE and CL at the very least. CL is contagious to horses and people so this is important. CAE is not dangerous to anything other than sheep (and risk of transmission is almost nothing in anything but a lactating female) but will shorten the goat’s lifespan and if they are symptomatic, they will be miserable.

Responsible breeders test, responsible breeders disbud, and a responsible breeder will have your back. Goats get sick quickly, they hide it ten times better than horses, and they appear to die overnight. Wethers in particular need attention paid to their diet to prevent urinary calculi, but otherwise, when it comes to keeping pet goats (as opposed to production breeding/milking animals) it’s honestly not that difficult.

Browse and a good quality hay, hoof trimming (get a milkstand, you’ll thank me), loose minerals (just like with horses, block minerals are useless), and you’ve got yourself a fairly easy pet.

If you want “dogs with hooves” which is what goats absolutely can be, I suggest bottle feeding them. You can use whole cow’s milk from the store - don’t mess around with overpriced replacer.

This is not the best time of the year to buy - depending on your location, most breeders will start kidding out in the Spring, unless you’re in the South as I am, in which case I kid out in January and am pushing for others to follow my example. Right now breeders are dumping culls and overstock before winter.

Now, when it comes to bucks, bucklings, and wethers - they can be banded like a calf, which is the most common procedure. If you are unsure, ask the breeder to do it for you. Some breeders use an emasculator and some simply cut and pull the testicles out. These are all fine methods. Do not believe the myth that the younger you castrate, the higher chance of UC - this is correlation but not causation. The urinary tract shrinks no matter what are you castrate. UC is caused by an imbalance of calcium and phosphorous in the diet, and is caused by the phosphorous - being fed too much grass hay + grain. This is why I get so many cases of intact bucks with it. Over fed, over fed, over fed. Almost every goat I lay hands on (that is not mine) is over fed and under conditioned. Goats are not meant to be fat in any way. They develop fat around their internal organs before any significant amount of subcutaneous fat.

A wether will not demonstrate the foul behavior of a buck if wethered early. Older bucks can be castrated, but will often continue at least some of the foul behavior, though the smell and intensity will be greatly lessened.

I have no clue if anything I just wrote flows in any kind of mindful order, but please feel free to follow my Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/knsfarm and know that I spend literal (and I do mean literal, not figurative) hours a day answering emails and messages about goats and their care.

If other breeders had not helped me when I started, I would not be where I am today, and I pay that back ten fold.

And re-reading, I’ve only just skimmed the surface really. You definitely need a draft free dry shelter - a wet and cold goat is a dead goat.

But if you have any specific questions, I’m generally wandering about the forums and the internet, as always!

^^ great post. I’m not a goat person but my best friend has Nubians for milk and she laments the bucklings they cannot keep. She would definitely pay for wethering and then sell them cheaply to someone like the OP. She avoids Craigslist like the plague, because there are too many crazies and you never know which ones looking for “pets” are really Jamaican restaurants. :slight_smile: A goat club would be a far better resource.

Thanks Epona!

I had goats umpteen years ago so a lot of this is familiar, I just need my memory jogged. Plus I’m sure that, as with horses, some care standards & vet medicine have changed a bit in 40 years! I do remember trimming feet and keeping an eye on how much grain they got.

I have a shelter of sorts already (big shed with a leaky roof, but they can get out of the wind and find a dry spot), and have a better one in the works. These guys will indeed (I hope) be hooved dogs, since that makes working with them that much easier. My horses are out 24/7 on about 10 acres with access to the barn. They are locked in for feeding and bad weather only, and have free choice hay when the grass is done for the year. My plan is that the goats will be out with them during the day, occasionally penned in certain areas with electric mesh for spot clean-up, and be in their own pen close to the house at night for safety.

I would be ok with culls and overstock, but $300 + seems steep for a grade goat. But maybe I’m wrong there? I know they are trying to recoup costs too.

What’s wrong with the boer/briar goat? Is it because they’re less likely to have been well handled?

I had one breeder tell me that their Nubians wouldn’t serve as pets for me because the udders were too big and would be caught by brambles. Never mind that they won’t be IN brambles, but… their goats, their choice of where to place them :slight_smile:

Anyway, thank you and you will probably hear from me again!

IME, which is more limited than Epona’s, Boers have less parasite resistance.
Other than that, I find the ones that have had handling to be quite personable.

It really depends on location, but the demand for goat meat far outweighs our country’s production of it. Which is a good thing for goat breeders obviously, but keeps prices of breeding stock up. But I personally would not pay generally $300 for anything but a nice registered milking doe or buck, but that is my location and my breed. I have paid more before in certain cases and I know people who have paid FAR more and just like with horses, it’s all about what you can spend for what quality.

If you get wethers or dry (non milking non breeding) does, you don’t need grain. Good quality hay and browse. If your winters are extreme, I could see it, but that is a territory I admit unfamiliarity with. I’m Texan through and through - so count me as an expert on internal parasites and pneumonia instead. LOL. =/

If you want hooved dogs, you don’t want scrub goats. You can tame wild goats, I’ve done it many a’time and used to get some really nice deals because I would take the wild ones, but the effort is extreme and it can and often does take years to become anywhere near the level of a bottle fed or handled from birth goat. I actually don’t like exclusively bottle fed kids - dam raised kids grow better and have better social behavior (which is what I am studying). People say dam raised kids cannot be tame and I say they are simply ignorant and don’t spend enough time with the kids. Which I understand, because it’s a great deal of effort even then. The best method is what I call the bottle-fed dam-raised kid. I walk around with warm bottles of milk and everyone gets it crammed in their mouths during their first few days of life. Goat kids don’t care WHERE the milk comes from and once they see me as a mother figure, I am set for life, all for the cost of a few (well in our case, a lot…) gallons of milk and a little extra time to give them a drink of milk a couple times a day. So our kids get the best of both worlds - I can’t stand chasing wild goats anymore, not with so many to care for. And since they start out so well, I can continue to reinforce the fact that people = awesome by scratches. Shoulder scratches and raisins - the way to any goat’s heart.

There’s nothing “wrong” per se with meat and cross breeds, but it’s an entirely different culture from the dairy world - we need to handle our animals at least twice a day, while meat goats are almost never handled - and meat goats were not bred to live a long time. In my experience, Boer have been some of the unhealthiest goats I’ve laid hands on. Necropsies were utterly fascinating. That’s not to say dairy goats are much healthier, and both sides have notable exceptions. For dairy goats, I’ve found the Nigerian Dwarf to be extremely hardy and healthy. They tend to be snottier with a stronger will and a great deal of mischief, but these are the true lady’s goat in my opinion, and my personal breed. When it comes to meat breeds, the Kiko and the Savannah are among the toughest. It makes sense - in the case of all of these breeds, they did not come from the high cold dry mountaintops like most, they came from hot wet places.

All the breeds have their different quirks (obviously, like any species) but any breed of goat can be a personal lovable pet with the right handling and care from the beginning.

Nubians are notorious for those horribly attached swinging udders - gross. And yes, they absolutely will tear them up in a browsing situation. We are an unusual dairy in that we allow our girls to browse a large tract of wild land - which is why we breed heavily for strong attached udders and we do not “udder up” our goats to create show-ready over filled udders.

But Nubian wethers don’t have udders, nor do does that are not being milked. Nubians come in many pretty colors and can be very friendly, and the wethers grow QUITE large (most wethers do outgrow their breed, much like geldings grow taller). In fact I promised my husband a Nubian doeling, because he so very wants one.

The girl I bought is supposedly a Boer cross, but to my uneducated eye she looks straight Boer. At any rate, she’s not as friendly as the other two I’m borrowing - she won’t let you walk up to her and keeps just out of hand reach. But if I DO get a hand on her (a bit of grain or carrot slices in a bucket and a quick horn grab) and she’s just fine with it. She doesn’t struggle and puts up with being scratched and looked over. She’ll stay as long as you’re still touching her, but the minute you let go she’s back to arm’s length. I still like her :slight_smile:

I can’t remember, can you sit goats on their butts like you can with sheep? I was an Animal Science major in college and we had sheep to care for as part of our curriculum. Flipping them to sit and lean against your knees was so funny, but a useful way to get a pretty good look at them.

I got my wethers for free from 4H kids; they (the goats) were already banded when I got them so have never had a stinky day in their lives and are indeed dogs with hooves, in fact better I think. I bought my Saanen doe from a homesteader-y type friend that raised her; bought her for $75 mostly to help out the friend.

I am a total back yard goat person, I’ve gotten mine from people that were ditching them or giving them away. One I rescued out of a back yard in a snow storm-he had been an impulse buy at the summer fair for a little kid and by the time winter arrived he was being ignored outside in the cold with no shelter. A friend was the neighbor and asked if they wanted rid of him and then called me; I picked him up in a blizzard at 11 pm and literally opened the back door of my Expedition and he jumped in like a dog and happily rode home with me without looking back or any kind of fuss. He was a great little goat and I still miss him.

I do feed my wethers a bit of grain to get copper into them b/c we get deficient here, very deficient. The imbalance of feed is the culprit for stones, more so that just having grain at all. It’s not difficult to manage since it’s similar to horses, the calcium and phosphorus has to be 2:1 for best health. http://fiascofarm.com/goats/stones.htm

My goats live exactly as yours do except I don’t lock them in. They wander around with the horses happily.

fiascofarm.com is a great resource (in addition to Epona). TONS of info including med dosing for goats since they’re off label for just about everything.

I’ll be back later with some tips that will help you :slight_smile: Off to town for now! If she comes close enough to grab, you are halfway there and this is more than doable.

I don’t know that much, but when we had our goat milking operation, we had nubians that were so nice and calm.
Then we had some Toggenburg that were very sweet but more active and smart and into all and everything.
They also got out regularly, one way or another.
The nubians were much larger but didn’t even look across the fence, happy in their pastures.

We had a few goat shows put on by the local dairy goat association, right in the race horse training barn, to the delight of the horses, that loved to watch the goats parading along.
Nothing beats a horse stall full of kids all climbing over you for their bottle.

Be sure to have places for them to play king of the mountain.
One thing with goats, you never get tired of watching them, they are so cute and funny.
Be warned that one bonded to people may be a love sponge, emotionally very needy, like a puppy that never grew up.
You can’t reassure them enough that you do love them back.
One of ours was a Toggenburg was over the top like that, lived to an old age for a goat and was a wonderful sweetie all her life and also was a beauty with exceptional face markings.

Edited, Toggenburg, not Alpine.

[QUOTE=saje;8401450]
I had one breeder tell me that their Nubians wouldn’t serve as pets for me because the udders were too big and would be caught by brambles. Never mind that they won’t be IN brambles, but… their goats, their choice of where to place them :)[/QUOTE]

:slight_smile: That’s what I thought while reading the post above. The does with big udders are probably not the ones you’ll find going as pet! (Unless they are being retired from milking, I suppose).

As I mentioned, my friend has Nubians and they are really beautiful - lots of color combinations. She loves it when the boys are born loud and splashy, because they tend to be more attractive as pets.

Anyone know of farms/breeders in the SC/NC/GA (northern) area? My Google-fu is lacking, it seems :confused:

[QUOTE=saje;8402171]
Anyone know of farms/breeders in the SC/NC/GA (northern) area? My Google-fu is lacking, it seems :/[/QUOTE]

Try starting here, they are in NC:

https://adga.org

They ought to help you with your questions and where to find some.

Around here goat’s milk/goat milk cheese is a huge new push. They always advertise tons of babies for sale, saying they take the boys mostly, to auction. You may want to contact/talk with them.

Unfortunately the ADGA site requires a paid membership, and as I’m not going to be a dairy I’m not sure it’s worth it. I may try an email to the general contact address though. And it seems that the local club sites are not maintained and none of the information is current.

4H?

I haven’t forgotten you, so sorry for the delay. I am an ADGA member and I know a few farms in those areas. I just need to check in on breeds - most of what I keep track of is, obviously, Nigerian Dwarves, and I actually am planning a trip out to a farm in Atlanta next year.

I haven’t forgotten I promised tips too. :slight_smile:

Today is just a bad day health wise. I’m sure to be back tonight.

Oh no hurry :slight_smile: I’ll get contacts eventually, I’ve put out a few FB feelers. I think there may actually be someone very local to me, like within 15 mi, I just need to do a little snooping & networking to make sure they’re ok. Breed aficionados of any species can have a streak of Krazy in there :stuck_out_tongue: