Good Guinness Missing

I feel sorry – if that’s the correct sentiment for animals that live a lot better than many people in this world – for the horses. And, BTW, I’m far more of a horse/dog/cat/any other non-human animal fan than I am a people fan.

Beyond that? It’s stupid human tricks time. I’m honestly not sure who to be more aghasted at: The people who shipped the horse months ago and never checked on him, despite reports of his drop in ability level; the person who took the horse on a no-upfront-cost basis (apparently based on YouTube videos alone and the questionable rep of a certain person’s word – will you take MY horse on the same basis? :rolleyes: ) yet never paused over its drop in talent or difference in appearance and quality or its absence of front teeth (which alone should have raised the question of, “Does this wee beastie have special feed needs??”); the person who got a supposed children’s level horse “on trade” and had it magically morph into a more talented animal capable of winning at least one championship in the high Jr/AO division; or anyone – i.e. barn managers and grooms :wink: – who could look at the paperwork that followed these two animals and not have gone, “Uhhhhhh…”

Or maybe I just place a whole lot higher of importance on my “horseman” card (albeit being a female) than anyone else in this charade.

The people I feel sorry for? The kid and her family who thought they’d leased the bargain horse of the century and the hauler, who will have to fall on his sword (regardless of his supposed mistake) to save his business.

Oh Beezer you said it beautifully.

While the dontbotherme post was a little strange there were a number of other replies on HSS that suggested the same thing. Nobody has any right here to point fingers at anyone, especially when all their involvement is providing suggestions and opinions.

Why can’t everyone be happy GG I’d being returned? If the rider is bummed that GG is leaving then her momm needs to teach her a lesson about what’s right and wrong. She should be glad to take that darling little imposter horse! I assume she is glad things are turning put how they should though, an so should everyone else.

And while people are taken back, ashamed, disgusted etc… By the lack of brain activity between agent, seller, shipper, trainer, owner… Keep in mind these trainers especially are very well known and respected men, rightfully so. HUMANS make huge mistakes, the smart ones learn from them.

My one question and concern…

What’s happening to the Imposter?!?!?

[QUOTE=Mardi;3944028]
Funny how someone comes out of the woodwork and does the right thing, when BNT’s seem to have trouble with doing the same (meaning sloppy barn/horse management).

There’s still one thing that has not been taken care of. I’m not yet convinced that
it was all just a mistake.

What would possess the poster known as “dontbotherme” to register and log on to the COTH board, and suggest, with alarming accuracy, that the horse showing in Gulfport was GG ?

“dontbotherme” must have had knowledge of a purposeful switch, otherwise what would cause him/her to post here and blow the whistle ?[/QUOTE]

I don’t really agree with that. I don’t know about other folks but I look through photographer’s proof albums all the time, sometimes out of sheer curiousity, sometimes looking for a specific horse or class, or future competition at a show. It would be easy enough to be someone reading this board and also looking at show proofs - especially from a major photographer like Flashpoint and major show like Gulfport. It’s possible they are a regular poster using an alter (I guess if I were in the h/j world, showing, selling, or breeding I wouldn’t necessarily want to be the one to blow the whistle if there was something nefarious going on, and have people know my identity) - or just a lurker that reads the boards and came across the proof album.

Plus, there have been comments about the stop at the Ward’s prior to the stop at Madden’s- people were clearly on the trail. I am betting whoever it was is probably a poster with an alter.

I think donotbotherme has reason to not want to be bothered. I mean, most of us posters would be crowing like roosters to be the first one to find and post a link like that.

Ergo, donotbotherme feels he/she might have something to lose by being that one.

I think Kan-ye/kon-ayre are the same name and the same horse. Hope he finds his people.

[QUOTE=MelantheLLC;3944120]
I think donotbotherme has reason to not want to be bothered. I mean, most of us posters would be crowing like roosters to be the first one to find and post a link like that.

Ergo, donotbotherme feels he/she might have something to lose by being that one.

I think Kan-ye/kon-ayre are the same name and the same horse. Hope he finds his people.[/QUOTE]

Also don’t think the names are necessarily related or that they got Kanye from Con Air…Kanye West is a pretty popular celeb at the moment - junior leasing the horse…not very likely they got Kanye out of “Con Air” :lol: More likely just named after the hip hop star…:winkgrin:

Maybe donotbotherme is someone from the lessee’s barn and recognized the horse-but didn’t want to be a “whistle blower” or make anyone mad if it wasn’t GG.

[QUOTE=Dun Ciarain;3943854]
It sounds like the owners had notified their insurance company. Now they have to withdraw their claim and pay to have the horse transported back. Then board/training. Then hope they can sell the horse locally, I guess. Now that Thermal is wrapping up, that isn’t an option either.[/QUOTE]

I’m not exactly crying for the owners here, sorry. It is THEIR horse and it is THEIR ultimate responsibility. Not buying into the “blame the trainer” scenario here, at least not 100%. They coulda picked up the phone and called, too, or flown to Fla. There are no guarantees of profit for horse owners - if anything, exactly the opposite! They were suspiciously quiet throughout the whole thing.

As to donotbotherme, whoever s/he is, s/he had VERY good reason to want anonymity. I mean, look at the names involved in this horse’s “disappearance” and do the math…

I am still onfused on a couple things…without being Nancy Drew…why was a horse marketed as Grand Prix/HighJR/AO/Young Riders Horse…which i am just guessing at…showing in Children’s? If you look at the WEF Results two different kids rode him and you know we see horses competing well below their scope max all the time, but it just seems odd…that a horse with that potential and ability wasn’t being ridden by a junior in at least the Lows…difficult or not something should have seemed off months ago?

Also if GG is a difficult ride…what about Kayne…I can see the horse being marketed to a junior wanting to move up…and doing childrens to get things going especially at WEF…but if the imposter GG was suddenly this easy horse with maybe not as much scope as expected thani would thinkingsomeone would wonder…

And is the Kanye horse, the real one a children’s jumper or a junior jumper? If the horse is a children’s jumper than why the real GG shown in the juniors…didn’t anyone try the horse before the lease? Notice anything…

I think it all comes down to people being busy taking things for what they seem to be and are reported to be and just huge human mistakes…

Now another question…maybe Janet knows…GG’s wins…are legal of course but the double registration and horse not shown under his real recording…what does that mean for awards and everything for the USEF?

Of course all of this is hindsight…and I can definitely see this happening but it still is curious and has been a very interesting thread and story!!!

Here’s my question…

If it was an honest mix up because there were 2 very similar looking horses on the trailer at the same time… why didn’t the shipper volunteer that information IMMEDIATELY once it became clear GG was missing?

Owner goes to a show and sees GG has been swapped. APB goes out. Owner seems intelligent/well connected. I am sure owner or Frank Madden or SOMEONE called the shipper to say “the horse you delivered is not the correct horse!” If there were 2 similar horses shipping together, don’t you think that’s when the shipper would say “let me see what horses were on the rig” and compare records and discover that the mix up was possible?!

Are they NO controls that allow commercial shippers to track what horses are loaded, who they are, and when they’re to get off? No paperwork? No halters with name tags. Nothing. Just blindly loading horses up and hoping the right one comes off at the right time.

If it was just a mixup caused by 2 black horses shipping together at the same time and being confused, you would think that mixup would have been identified the MINUTE someone told the shipper there was a problem-- and not only would it have been identified but through the shipper you would know EXACTLY who to call because you’d know who the swapped horse belonged to.

Why didn’t this happen here?

After reading all of this I just have to post. I still don’t believe it is a mistake. Yes the grooms unload the horses, but all of the horses I have seen come and go at sales barns have their halters clearly tagged with their names. These guys are professionals, and these are not $100 horses. Say all you want, I just don’t believe it.

As to the rest of it - why don’t the real owners recoop some of the money from the lease that was paid to the Ward’s? Their horse was used, the Ward’s profited. There must be some way to collect - perhaps under a liability policy? In addition, the shipper should have some kind of policy to cover mistakes. I am guessing negotiations are already in the works - or should be!

I can not understand why so many people have their pantie bunched about the missing front teeth thing.
How many high level jumpers depend on grazing to fill their calorie needs? Not many I am thinking. So missing a couple of front teeth is not going to really affect the horses diet.
And it for sure does not affect its value if it knows how to jump.

Why didn’t this happen here?

Hindsight is 20/20. If the shipper can remember every horse on his truck, I’d be suprised. Surely things get confusing. Likely that the people handling these horses are paid staff, probably somewhat poorly paid. I doubt MW or FM are unloading these horses or even tacking them up. I imagine if MW was expecting some modest childrens jumper that he did not even lay eyes on the horse or sit on it.

As a kid, my trainer worked with a big sales barn to get in horses for us to try. I had one for a week trial that stayed for over a month because the sales barn forgot about him. You’d get in horses that were X and they’d turn out to be Y. I think a lot of the times they never even set hoof in the sales barn and I doubt the owner of the sales barn ever set eyes on many of them, much less rode them to assess. I think that’s how nobody realizes good old GG’s more than a childrens jumper… And who the hell calls up and says “hey- that children’s jumper you leased me is spectacular- I think there is something funny going on…”.

I don’t know anything about any of these businesses. But I have a feeling that you have a few star horses that get careful treatment and the rest, due to sheer volume probably don’t get the same level of attention/thought that our privately owned horses do. Yes, they get care, very good care, but don’t have one individual really watching over them.

What would possess the poster known as “dontbotherme” to register and log on to the COTH board, and suggest, with alarming accuracy, that the horse showing in Gulfport was GG ?

“dontbotherme” must have had knowledge of a purposeful switch, otherwise what would cause him/her to post here and blow the whistle ?

DING DING DING!!!

This story, no matter how heart-breaking and happy-ending and made-for-TV, does not add up. Investigators look at inconsistencies, and there are TONS of convenient oversights in this one.

And one very important point, one poster said that a daughter was at the barn in NJ with the real GG, AND THE POLICE, waiting to get GG sent safely home. If this discovery was made and all parties are saying “I’m so very sorry that this mix-up occurred”, why the need for a police presence?

My thoughts exactly…too strange.

[QUOTE=magnolia73;3944254]
Hindsight is 20/20. If the shipper can remember every horse on his truck, I’d be suprised. Surely things get confusing. Likely that the people handling these horses are paid staff, probably somewhat poorly paid. I doubt MW or FM are unloading these horses or even tacking them up. I imagine if MW was expecting some modest childrens jumper that he did not even lay eyes on the horse or sit on it.

As a kid, my trainer worked with a big sales barn to get in horses for us to try. I had one for a week trial that stayed for over a month because the sales barn forgot about him. You’d get in horses that were X and they’d turn out to be Y. I think a lot of the times they never even set hoof in the sales barn and I doubt the owner of the sales barn ever set eyes on many of them, much less rode them to assess. I think that’s how nobody realizes good old GG’s more than a childrens jumper… And who the hell calls up and says “hey- that children’s jumper you leased me is spectacular- I think there is something funny going on…”.

I don’t know anything about any of these businesses. But I have a feeling that you have a few star horses that get careful treatment and the rest, due to sheer volume probably don’t get the same level of attention/thought that our privately owned horses do. Yes, they get care, very good care, but don’t have one individual really watching over them.[/QUOTE]

I don’t expect the shipper to necessarily remember right of the top of his head-- but are there no records? No controls/methods to ensure horses are correctly delivered?

Imagine this was a package and you got the wrong one (someone else’s package whose name is spelled very similarly to yours). The UPS driver might not recall the package from memory but if you gave UPS the date, they could pull up a list of all the packages and maybe figure out if some got swapped based on similar name/addresses. That’s the first thing they would do if you reported a problem with a package, pull up the records and see if that had any clue to explain what happened. They wouldn’t respond “golly gee, what could have happened” and provide no info. They’d be looking for possible explanations based on the records they have of what was delivered that day from that truck/driver.

Why, when notified of a mixup-- didn’t the shipper seemingly have ANY information about possible avenues to search. Even if there were 20 other horses on the truck and they were neon blue colored-- you would have thought the shipped would have the names/drop off addresses/contact info and would be calling those places to see if there was some confusion. How many horses were on this truck and how many stops? Why didn’t the shipper call all the stops and ask if a horse was accidentally unloaded. If the mistake was a simple swap of two horses on the trailer, it ought to have been a snap to narrow down where the horse was and explain what happened. It was a finite number of horses/stops. Even if he made lots of stops and loaded/offloaded lots of horses-- it’s still a finite number of avenues to check.

Can anyone just take any horse off a trailer? Is that how it works? No recordkeeping or control at all? Any old groom can saunter up and take off any horse s/he’d like. No signing for the horse? No checking coggins/records? No inspection of the horse’s condition? Nothing? I genuinely want to know, I have never used a large commercial shipper like this and would have THOUGHT there was lots of control/recordkeeping-- to protect the shipper himself/herself!

Taking poetic license:

“What you got on the truck Earl?”

“Well, I got this little black horse for you, these two hunters who are going to Stable X, and I got this other black horse, a Grand Prix horse from California.”

“Oh, really…?!!” :cool:

Hmm I ship horses commercially all the time to tracks, and any commercial haulers knows what horses is in which stall and where horse is going.
They also roll and wedge into space in halter rings securly a tag w/ sender/horse name/ destination.
That is such a lame excuse, they got mixed up on the van.
don’t you think who ever got G.G. knew they got the wrong horse…

Taking poetic license:

“What you got on the truck Earl?”

“Well, I got this little black horse for you, these two hunters who are going to Stable X, and I got this other black horse, a Grand Prix horse from California.”

“Oh, really…?!!” :cool:[/QUOTE]

DING DING DING Now that is I do believe, the most logical thing I have read as an explanation!!!