I don’t see why people are surprised that the trainer wanted the police present- after all, he didn’t KNOW whether this was an honest mix-up or not, didn’t know the people who were keeping him, and wanted to be sure there was no question that he legally regained custody of his horse.
[QUOTE=Dun Ciarain;3944583]
why would they go to Florida to check and see if it was the right horse?[/QUOTE]
Well, if I owned a GP horse, agreed for it to be sent to a sales barn, and the next thing I heard about it was that it wasn’t living up to its potential and had been kicked back down to the low/children’s, I would be (a) livid, (b) suspicious and © on the next plane.
Yes they are. In both the good and the bad.
Just curious
I wonder if everyone would have the same reaction/comments if the mix up had gone the other way: GG was expected at Ward’s barn, but ended up at Frank Madden’s and was leased out by him.
It seems that BW’s reputation places him under a cloud of suspicion right away… but would you all be as suspicious if FM had had GG when he expected another horse?
I hope we find out what happens to Con-Air!
[QUOTE=FalseImpression;3944638]
I hope we find out what happens to Con-Air![/QUOTE]
Well, it sure sounds like offers had been made for him while he was being ,marketed as GG.
[QUOTE=War Admiral;3944623]
Well, if I owned a GP horse, agreed for it to be sent to a sales barn, and the next thing I heard about it was that it wasn’t living up to its potential and had been kicked back down to the low/children’s, I would be (a) livid, (b) suspicious and © on the next plane.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t be surprised if the attorney/owner is not a rider and possibly daughter is. Owner is susposed to be a prominent attorney, probably extremely busy, and yes, should have been more directly involved. I don’t know any successful attorneys who don’t document/verify the crap out of every transaction. With this amount of money involved, every transaction needs to proceed as a business transaction, not as your kid’s hobby. I document/verify everything. Saves time and agravation in the long run.
Yeah… a disapointing offer on a GP horse is probably quite a decent on on a children’s horse!
[QUOTE=FalseImpression;3944638]
I wonder if everyone would have the same reaction/comments if the mix up had gone the other way: GG was expected at Ward’s barn, but ended up at Frank Madden’s and was leased out by him.
It seems that BW’s reputation places him under a cloud of suspicion right away… but would you all be as suspicious if FM had had GG when he expected another horse?
I hope we find out what happens to Con-Air![/QUOTE]
I guess for me it’s more that the trailer stopped FIRST at the Ward’s and THEN to Frank Madden’s - meaning there was more opportunity for deception / mix-up to happen there since both horses were at the Ward’s. Only one was delivered to Frank so he sort of had little opportunity to swap the horses… JMO
Now if micro chipping was the norm it would all be so much easier.
Check chip BLEEP load on trailer…(this is the cross country drive)…unload BLEEP and there’s your horse
shipper has no blame… if this had been the norm.
And everybody talks about how easy it is to mix up at those big barns, and I agree, however, that doesn’t justify anything. Since when is it ok to pay big bucks for your horse to fall by the waste side??? (and I’m totally aware that that happens all the time)
OK…NOW I need a scorecard. Is this correct?
- GG and Con Air get on the trailer together.
- GG is dropped off AS Con Air at the Wards’ – name is changed to Kanye and he’s leased out to someone who has nothing else to do with this mess
- Con Air (or the horse that SHOULD be Kanye) goes to Madden, dissapoints, owner discovers it’s not the right horse
- GG is ID’d as Kanye, and picked up.
So…are there TWO horses involved, or THREE?
WAS Con Air the horse that was to become Kanye, or was that another one?
Where is the “real” Kanye now and what does he look like (there were conflicting descriptions, yes)?
Who is Con Air’s owner/trainer and has he been claimed?
I"m soooo confused…
Now, as to requiring documentation, let me tell you the story of when my friend, a Foreign Service officer, had his car shipped back to DC from Russia. He was in training, so I agreed to receive the car - he gave me a full set of paperwork, including a notarized authorization to give the car to me.
The delivery guy arrived and asked if I was expecting a Subaru. I said yes. He offloaded the car, handed me the keys, asked me to scribble a signature on line3 and left. NO request for ID, no verification, nothing!
I tell you, if you want to steal a car, just find out when a diplomat’s vehicle is scheduled to arrive and pick it up!
So, it’s possible there could have been a shipper mix up. But I’d suggest that sloppy deliveries would have to be the rule for the shipper, not the exception. And it would seem odd that a top-notch trainer would use a sloppy delivery service, except that the State Department seems to do the same, so…
2 horses are involved. The real GG, thought to be Con Air, had name changed to Kanye. The real Con Air, thought to be GG… I don’t exaclty know where he is!!!
Microchip scanners are not that expensive. I’ve seen some for sale at $350 or so. It wouldn’t be an outrageous expense for shippers to have them. There is an EU wide standard for horse chips, which is probably the same type chip that Weatherbys uses for TB race horses and has since 1999.
I fault the USEF for not taking an aggressive stance in favor of required microchipping for show horses. Heck, they could even rent out the correct scanners to shows.
TB type lip tattooing would work, but there is so much more information that can be encoded in the chip and registered to that chip.
The state of Louisiana already requires either tattooing, branding or microchipping by law. So what’s the beef about the USEF doing the same thing? Don’t many Western states have brand laws?
The USA is going to end up with NAIS probably, and this is one good reason why.
[QUOTE=lesson junkie;3943405]
… I’m still hung up on the brand…no matter how faint, isn’t that something that would be on a Coggins test and health papers like other characteristic marks?.. [/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. The Coggins that was done on one of my horses last year - well, let’s say there’s no way you would recognize him from the description that was written on the paperwork. Of course, he’s grey so part of it can be from the lighter-colored coat he grows in winter, but all of a sudden he was “white”, had no leg markings (he’s got one up-to-the-knee stocking in front and a sock behind - and still has some darker points on his legs that outline his leg markings) and his star, strip, snip, underlip became a ‘faded blaze’. (He’s semi-retired, so it’s not a huge deal - but it sure was odd to read.) (That description would also keep the nasty NAIS people from recognizing him - lol!)
Anyway, glad to read GG has been located and returned. The article was cross-posted just about everywhere and it’s always good to hear of a successful resolution to something like this (tho the junior rider is out one spiffy horse).
Quick question…
Somewhere back 10 pages or so when all this was figured out, it said that the trailer stopped first at BW’s, but it didn’t mention the horses being on the same trailer. Is it possible that Kanye/Con Air was not actually on the trailer but instead had been at BW’s for a few days and the hauler stopped there to off load another horse and/or overnight there? If they overnighted, wouldn’t all the horses have been unloaded from the trailer and stalled? GG possibly next to CA/Kanye? Then perhaps the next day they reloaded all the horses and got the wrong one by accident? Grooms/barn workers could have moved horses and/or halters around before the hauler realized what happened? I imagine in a huge barn like that, it would be hectic.
Still gives no excuse for the mistake not being discovered before now, but maybe a possiblity?
Caitlin
[QUOTE=LetsChat;3944766]
I guess for me it’s more that the trailer stopped FIRST at the Ward’s and THEN to Frank Madden’s - meaning there was more opportunity for deception / mix-up to happen there since both horses were at the Ward’s. Only one was delivered to Frank so he sort of had little opportunity to swap the horses… JMO[/QUOTE]
I meant IF the trailer had stopped FIRST at Frank Madden’s and second at Ward’s… would people be as quick at pointing a finger at the sales barn… is this a case of “reputation” putting a slant on the situation?
I’m just glad that all of the horses concerned have been located, and the owner of Good Guinness has a living, breathing animal back–a much better ending for all involved than the unfortunate outcomes we’ve all run into on the BB lately.
Does anyone know where Kanye/Con Air came from??
And where is Con Air? I must have missed that when reading!
[QUOTE=Dispatcher;3945075]
And where is Con Air? I must have missed that when reading![/QUOTE]
That’s the “imposter” horse that Frank Madden has. I assume he’s going to be shipped back to the Wards (hopefully with some better shipping security/precautions).
[QUOTE=Dun Ciarain;3944715]
I wouldn’t be surprised if the attorney/owner is not a rider and possibly daughter is. Owner is susposed to be a prominent attorney, probably extremely busy, and yes, should have been more directly involved. I don’t know any successful attorneys who don’t document/verify the crap out of every transaction. With this amount of money involved, every transaction needs to proceed as a business transaction, not as your kid’s hobby. I document/verify everything. Saves time and agravation in the long run.[/QUOTE]
Point for Dun Ciariain!! Lawyers = paperwork/documentation… Lawyers with super expensive property = more paperwork/documentation. Why wasn’t this done here? Just blind trust in the BNT they were dealing with? Because in the horse world, they should know better!!!
I’m just a poor, overworked grad student dealing with finals. I don’t know what to think about this anymore… mistake? deliberate? someone tell me! haha
In the meantime, all my horses (not expensive GP horses at all…) are getting chipped next week… too many threads on COTH have freaked me out!
