Good Guinness Missing

[Roulett]

[QUOTE=Wanderluster;3948279]
WHY would he change his story if it is in fact the truth. Good lord I now understand why CSI has so many fans. It is so much more fun to suspect collusion ,deception and complicity. The truth of human error is so BORING. If you simply change the system for identifying horses as easily as packages are by Fed Ex and UPS the chance of having the same mistake happening again shrinks to practically zero.[/QUOTE]

I guess it’s up to everyone to decide for themselves what to believe. The emails blasts
were coming hot and heavy and the whole scenario blew up so fast – is it all over-blown,
I don’t know. If Mr. K who owns GG is OK with it all then I would think that would
be the end of it. JMO

[Wanderluster]

@Fairview Horse Center;3948386

So what does this tell us? Do we treat shipping like a hurricane? Braid luggage tags into their mane & tail? Paint SS numbers onto them? Engrave cell phone #s onto their hooves? :eek:

I bet most people when receiving a horse don’t really check that well. I know here, the owners are usually around, but what if I am shipping a foal several states away to a person that has only seen a few photos? Probably conformation and movement taken from the side. I will from now on make sure all of the markings are included.

When I receive a horse and have to sign for it, I am usually mostly concerned about the condition. Any injuries, does it seem comfortable, no signs of illness? All I usually get is a Coggins Test, and those are often done by very poor artists.

You know Fairview whether you meant to or not you may have come up with the perfect temporary solution to animals being shipped nationally. If the horses name and USEF/Passport number were written on a white hoof with a black sharpie that would stay there for any mix up to be discovered. If hip numbers were put on all animals shipping intrastate it would make tracking easier.

I think that you may have fallen on a simpler solution then micro chipping but it would not address wiping out a horses past show record by relocating and re registering the horse with USEF.

[SEFBH87]

While I have not been involved in this thread nor do I personally know any of these people involved, I just wanted to add something after reading the saga…

If the horse had a layover and was then transported to the Maddens by a two horse trailer, doesn’t that pretty much go against what the shipper is saying? I mean I could be dead wrong but I don’t think that the shipper was the same person driving the two horse right? Unless the original shipper was based somewhere very near BW’s farm it would not make sense to hang out for 4 days. At least to me. That’s why the shippers have drop-off points so that one makes that run and someone else picks up from there. Wouldn’t that then fall on the person who is entrusted to care for the horse at the layover point (aka BW)??

Again, I am a paranoid type person. And I may be reading way too far into this and be dead wrong.

[Ambrey]

[QUOTE=checkwriter;3948020]
Good Catch MARIEKE. You are right I did “fall off my UFO.” Here is the correct information.

Patrick Seaton, as quoted in a Phelp’s Sports Exclusive Report by Alden Corrigan, titled “Good Guiness Found” said:

“The horse arrived at Madden’s on the 14th, which I didn’t realize, as he was supposed to arrive on the 10th. He laid over a few days in Nashville, and had been to the Ward’s, but at the time I didn’t know any of this. I just heard that the horses arrived safe and sound.”

He also states that he sent the horse on the 8th. So the horse arrived 4 days after Patrick thought it did, and six days after he sent it on its way.

My aplogies for leading the herd astray on it’s very effective, collective investigation.[/QUOTE]

Wow. Nothing against Patrick, who sounds like a nice guy and all, but if a trainer ever ships my $200,000 horse across the country to be sold I would hope that he’d know exactly when it left, when it got there, and where it was in the meantime.

[Come_Shine]

[QUOTE=Ambrey;3948550]
Wow. … if a trainer ever ships my $200,000 horse across the country to be sold I would hope that he’d know exactly when it left, when it got there, and where it was in the meantime.[/QUOTE]

Ummm. You would think so. That part is pretty baffling.

[Peggy]

We had one come in via a shipper that did have a hip sticker. That would prevent honest mistakes, sort of like the string I use to attach the scissors to the front of the lab room that reminds honest people not to walk off with them but doesn’t prevent the dishonest ones from simply snipping the string with the scissors. But, by and large it works. Until someone gets desperate or has a particularly princess-y attitude. Something more permanent (like the magic marker) in addition would be better. But add me to the camp that says they should be microhipped (horses, not scissors!).

[scpezold]

How can you not know your horse is stopping for a four day layover? Did I read that right? And why four days? Did they get snowed in (snow in September is possible)? Aren’t the two farms relatively close in proximity? If I am reading correctly it just does not seem to add up. On the other hand with all of BW extra “baggage” it would seem like he would want to lay low for his sons sake.

Above all, I am glad GG is safe and home.

[Wanderluster]

@scpezold;3948618

How can you not know your horse is stopping for a four day layover? Did I read that right? And why four days? Did they get snowed in (snow in September is possible)? Aren’t the two farms relatively close in proximity? If I am reading correctly it just does not seem to add up. On the other hand with all of BW extra “baggage” it would seem like he would want to lay low for his sons sake.

Above all, I am glad GG is safe and home.

Sorry to make you the point of all of this but YES horses do get confined to areas like mail. When the truck is full the animals are delivered. How did you think it works? The same is true for importing, your horse does not move until the pallet is full unless you plan to pay for the ENTIRE shipment. I hope that you do recognize the difference in commercial transport and loading your private pet in your trailer and moving him through an interstate highway on a 3000 mile journey.

[Long_Spot]

[QUOTE=Ambrey;3948550]
Wow. Nothing against Patrick, who sounds like a nice guy and all, but if a trainer ever ships my $200,000 horse across the country to be sold I would hope that he’d know exactly when it left, when it got there, and where it was in the meantime.[/QUOTE]

What happened to owner accountability? I know if I shipped a horse worth that much (or one dollar, frankly), even if the trainer handled the deal and made the arrangements, I’d be on the horn making sure everthing went to plan. Even if horse was just an investment.

[copper1]

A new horse arrived at our barn yesterday-transported by his new owner-and I made sure he was the horse we had tried! LOL!

[LetsChat]

I don’t know why but for some reason I posted this yesterday but it is gone. The horses really didn’t look identical, maybe it is just because I am seeing them only on the flyer, side by side… but then again if they were in stalls next to each other they would also be side by side. GG seems taller and leaner and the imposter seems stockier and shorter, the faces are completely different and like someone else mentioned the muzzle of the imposter is brown where GG seems to have a solid dark head. That being said, I think that it is a little too convenient that there were similar looking horses available to swap, meaning that to someone who didn’t know the animal the paperwork would appear to be for the animal and it wasn’t like a junior hunter got sent instead of a jumper. It just seems way to contrived for that. I think that the owners of GG are probably just happy to have the animal back and safe and at least it was winning where he was showing so that is a plus. It reinforces the need for people to be more diligent on checking up on the animals and following up even if it is someone they know and trust. An honest person doesn’t mind someone being responsible, a dishonest person will realize that you are more aware and that they probably won’t get one over on you.

[Moderator_1]

Again, if you’d like to discuss the details of this situation made public, that’s fine, but please avoid the finger-pointing at various individuals and discussion of rumors or the thread will be closed.

Thanks,
Mod 1

[gottagrey]

I could see where it might be easy to have 2 bay horses w/ similar markings be confused w/ each other particularly by a 3rd party who has little to no involvement w/ the horse except to transport from A to B (w/detour at C?).

The one thing that needs to be sorted out is the points and results for each horse on USEF records. Meaning apparently the GG imposter did not do well which is currently showing on the REAL GG show record… a mess

I’m sure the owners are happy and relieved to have their horse back…

[Midge]

originally posted by Midge
If GG stayed at Barney’s for four days, someone in his life knew that. Unless the complete lack of oversight starts right here. When GG gets on the truck in California, does no one inform Frank? Is no one from CA calling Frank to see about the horse arriving, or calling the shipper? If CA is not calling, why isn’t Frank? “Hey, weren’t you sending me that nice GP horse I saw on the video?” Or is the shipper mysteriously broken down in Iowa when he is actually jumping the big sticks in Brewster?

Patrick Seaton, as quoted in a Phelp’s Sports Exclusive Report by Alden Corrigan, titled “Good Guiness Found” said:

“The horse arrived at Madden’s on the 14th, which I didn’t realize, as he was supposed to arrive on the 10th. He laid over a few days in Nashville, and had been to the Ward’s, but at the time I didn’t know any of this. I just heard that the horses arrived safe and sound.”

Maybe I should go to work for the Psychic Network.

[scpezold]

“The horse arrived at Madden’s on the 14th, which I didn’t realize, as he was supposed to arrive on the 10th. He laid over a few days in Nashville, and had been to the Ward’s, but at the time I didn’t know any of this. I just heard that the horses arrived safe and sound.”

He also states that he sent the horse on the 8th. So the horse arrived 4 days after Patrick thought it did, and six days after he sent it on its way.

@Wanderluster;3948649

Sorry to make you the point of all of this but YES horses do get confined to areas like mail. When the truck is full the animals are delivered. How did you think it works?

Honestly, I thought they rested for a couple of nights and were then beamed to their correct locations. Some guy named Scotty used to handle this years ago but last I heard he had retired and his son took over

Seriously, I am all for layovers cross country. Gives the horses the rest they need and is not as taxing on their bodies. I thought the horses were at the Wards for 4 days. Being that the farms were so close in proximity I could not understand why the horse was there so long.

Either way, especially when you are shipping cross country and especially if the horse is worth almost the price of an average home, I would expect a phone call at each destination. Did Patrick ASSUME the horse arrived 4 days earlier then it did or was he informed? Based on the above information it looks like he assumed but who knows.

[quote=Wanderluster;3948649]The same is true for importing, your horse does not move until the pallet is full unless you plan to pay for the ENTIRE shipment. I hope that you do recognize the difference in commercial transport and loading your private pet in your trailer and moving him through an interstate highway on a 3000 mile journey.
[/quote]

Wow, let me go put my dunce cap back on. I just had no idea :lol:

Again, am all for the layovers and completely understand “waiting for full load” to proceed. What I cannot understand is the lack of communication on the part of the shipper.
I had 2 horses shipped down from Kentucky. When each were shipped I got a call when they left, I got a call when they stopped for the night and where they were. On the second occasion I got a call when the transporter had a problem with the engine and had to put the truck in the shop (thank goodness they had not left layover destination). I was cool thinking they would continue the layover and when truck was fixed (minor problem) horses would be on their way. I got a call that truck was going to take longer then expected and he was paying to have another rig come and pick up the horses and continue on. I also got a call giving me information of the new shipper and all his contact information. I also then got a call from the new shipper “introducing” himself and letting me know the new projected arrival time of the horses. I was also informed if any issues arose I would…yes, you guessed it GET A CALL. And this was only a small trip from Kentucky to Georgia.

[Wanderluster]

scpezold thanks for that you tickled my funny bone :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

It would be so much easier to live life in reverse so stupid stuff didn’t happen. I think your experience with your shipper is the way it is supposed to work.

[cloudyandcallie]

Wait a minute!

Did Con Air aka Kanye have a halter with his name, either name on it at Barney Ward’s? Would Ward invest $ in a nameplate for a horse he was going to “move”?

[War_Admiral]

I’m not a member (obvious reasons), but what did McClain’s statement on Phelps say? Anyone?

[FalseImpression]

[QUOTE=War Admiral;3949757]
I’m not a member (obvious reasons), but what did McClain’s statement on Phelps say? Anyone?[/QUOTE]

Yes, curious minds…

[2bayboys]

From Phelps:

It basically says that Con Air (Good Guiness) walked off the truck and was presented with his papers as the trade-in horse they expected. That Good Guiness (really Con Air) was laid over in a “back barn” and cared for by the shipper for a few days, then sent on to Frank’s. That it was all the shipper’s fault, who does happen to be a good friend, and that steps will be taken by the shipper to prevent it from happening again.

Further, that “these [gossip] forums are the real scandal”.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Without these forums, would Good Guiness have ever been found?