I’m suprised “they” haven’t moved the thread and it’s replies back. Regardless of the names mentioned almost all the replies contained valuable information and pieces to the puzzle… Dissapointed
Everyones in a tiff about it on facebook/HSS
…this thread also contained a fair amount of speculation and accusations, which violates board policy. As this case is also being reported by mainstream media, we’ve reinstated the thread in the main forum.
Here’s a link to The Horse article referenced.
We’ve removed or edited some posts to comply with board policy, which we urge all posters to adhere to if the thread is to remain open.
Thanks!
Mod 1
ETA: The Announcements forum is still a work in progress. If the format works, once we get the other subforums up, the location may change. Feel free to PM with input. 
[QUOTE=witherbee;3938650]
Sad situation and I hope they find poor Guiness safe and sound.
If it WAS a mistake, you’d think they could just go back to all the deliveries made when Guiness was with that shipper and find out what horses went where. Because a lot of time has gone by, he may have changed hands since then, but it should be fairly easy to follow the trail. That is what makes me think theft is involved - I’m sure they must have checked back, but evidently did not find out where all of the other horses on the van went…[/QUOTE]
Yes, first if it were my horse, I’d want to know if the right horse was loaded on the transport. If so, then I’d want a manifest of every horse being delivered on that shipment, and every stop and layover on the trip. Then I’d hire a private detective to go to every barn and interview everyone who had a horse on that shipment, and I’d want to look at those horses. Someone may have gotten the wrong horse and decided it was a better deal that getting their horse. And I’d want to know if there was a switch after he got to his destination. So I’d want pix of the horse showing last year as GG in the East.
It’s a hard and expensive thing to have to do, but deductive invetigation can eliminate some of the suspects.
And the FBI “ain’t Elliot Ness,” so don’t expect them to solve this problem, unless an insurance company is pushing in. In fact, I’d think the ins. co for this horse would send out it’s investigators to find out what happened. Insurance investigators are usually very good.
Or if the horses looked pretty much alike (sounds like they did), the person who got GG could have been like “whew, he sure jumps better than he did on the video!” and been happy with their new horse. I would not automatically assume that if a switch happened in transport, the person who got the horse knew about it any more than the Maddens did. Could have, but maybe not.
What a wild story.
I dunno, from what I’ve been hearing the horse isn’t an easy ride- if someone was expecting a nice, easy, lower level type jumper, and got GG, they might not be so thrilled. (I thought the same thing at first, till I learned more).
Then again, I have a niggling suspicion that this isn’t as simple as an accidental switchup, but to say any more would be total conjecture I suppose.
It would definitely be my guess that this is not a mixup, but if that is the case I doubt someone unsuspecting got the horse and just decided to keep it instead of fessing up. It is most likely this was all planned by someone on purpose.
You’re quite right, it is very possible they IF there was a mixup they got GG and were disappointed in their horse that had sounded easy to ride. It is just so hard to say what happened, but it is also unfair to presume that someone was just handed this grand prix jumper and decided that rather than telling someone there was a mistake they would just keep it. I would just think that would be the most unlikely of all.
Thanks for bringing the thread back.
I’ve got to be honest: my sympathies lie with the horse. He didn’t ask for this, and it looks like he was a solid citizen who worked hard and did the job well for his connections. I pray that he is found alive and well, I really do.
But I’m sorry, I’m of two minds about this. The whole thing sends up red flags. I’m all in favor of frank and open discussion about it because (a) it might help find the horse, which is paramount; (b) there are sad lessons to be learned here for the rest of us, like CHECK ON YOUR HORSE no matter WHOSE sale barn you are sending it to; and © there is a LOT of ugly back story on a LOT (though not all) of the people who are known to have been in the horse’s chain of custody during its last known hours, and I truly believe those who weren’t around for all that the first time need to be aware that these are repeat offenders who were set down for very valid reasons that didn’t just happen once, but again and again and again. That is the fact.
I hope they find the horse safe and sound, I really do.
[QUOTE=lonewolf;3937490]
For anyone who’s interested, I found a video of the horse on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuZrbkAqdnM[/QUOTE]
What a cool horse, this is a tradgedy. Hopefully the horse is well where ever he is, if not that would be a complete shame. I haven’t been able to read all the posts, the thread was gone for a day or so but I do want to comment so here goes. As for the horse being demoted, that might not be a HUGE red flag, what if a wealthy young kid wants a horse to move up to the Juniors with but is just stepping into the jumpers, you would probably put them in the C/A first. Also, it really isn’t THAT unheard of for people to buy horses that are way outclassed of the division. ie. buy a regular working hunter to do the A/A hunters. If you have money and you want a horse that won’t blink if you put them wrong you buy them with a surplus of scope. I also don’t think it is that odd that he sent the horse to a BNT for the sale and didn’t follow up until Florida. Like others have said Frank was probably at all the indoors and Syracuse, then the holidays, maybe he had people hacking the horse and lessoning but it wasn’t until the circuit that it became glaring the horse was misrepresented, or unbenounced to him, the wrong horse. This is just such a shame. I hope the horse is returned safe and sound… Also, on a totally different note, I saw the flyer, what do you think happened to the stand-ins front teeth… A cribber or an accident, just curious because it seems like they are really worn down…
[QUOTE=Horseymama;3938518]
So if it was an honest mistake, then where were they supposed to deliver the Ch/AA jumper to? Can it be that hard? Let’s say they put 10 horses on the van, and let’s suppose one was delivered to Arizona, one to New Mexico, five to Texas, one to Louisiana, and two to Florida. Can’t they just call those people? Isn’t there some kid somewhere that bought a Ch/AA jumper that now has a strong horse with a really huge jump that wonders if it was the same horse she tried? Where are the other horse’s owners or buyers? This other horse didn’t just appear out of thin air!
The fact that this other horse just appeared and looks similar raises a red flag to me. If not, wouldn’t the owners of the other horse would be wondering, too?[/QUOTE]
The only problem with this is that if someone got a competitive GP horse for a C/A price they may have flipped it (I mean quickly resold, not flip in the idea of missing a jump)… Unfortunately.
facts, not speculation…
The hauler that Patrick Seaton hired to transport GG was Earl Jacque, and the last stop before Frank Madden’s was Barney Ward’s. All people dealing with Barney Ward in the last six months should be notified so that they can verifify that a mistake has not been made, and they did not receive the wrong horse.
[QUOTE=satori;3942059]
The hauler that Patrick Seaton hired to transport GG was Earl Jacque, and the last stop before Frank Madden’s was Barney Ward’s. All people dealing with Barney Ward in the last six months should be notified so that they can verifify that a mistake has not been made, and they did not receive the wrong horse.[/QUOTE]
A horse fitting the description named Kayne is winning in the Junior/A/O jumpers at Gulfport. Owned by McClain Ward, ridden by a different junior find pictures, looks exactly like the horse… No previous show record before 11/08… If it is the horse, the horse is safe and well cared for…
A number of you have asked if I have any snaps. I just dug these up and sent to Patrick. If the horse is being ridden by a junior now, it might help to get the visual…
A horse fitting the description named Kayne is winning in the Junior/A/O jumpers at Gulfport. Owned by McClain Ward, ridden by a different junior find pictures, looks exactly like the horse… No previous show record before 11/08… If it is the horse, the horse is safe and well cared for…
Now isn’t THAT interesting?!!! 
Kanye, you mean.
anyone have a photo/video of that horse?
There is a picture of Kanye on this web page: http://www.resolutionfarm.com/Horses%20Sold.html
He appears more bay (and not as black) to me than the picture of GG on the flyer… The star marking looks similar.
Go here: http://www.flashpointphotography.com/ and search Gulf Coast week 3, horse is Kanye.
Is that him?
There are more pics in week 1 and week 2, if that helps anybody.
[QUOTE=Phaxxton;3942285]
There is a picture of Kanye on this web page: http://www.resolutionfarm.com/Horses%20Sold.html
He appears more bay (and not as black) to me than the picture of GG on the flyer… The star marking looks similar.[/QUOTE]
I would hazard to guess a change in color is because the horse has been body clipped. The clipped dark horse is always a little lighter. Wonder if it is the same horse?
I knew a woman in CA who had a bay horse shipped across the country. She saw it once, bought it and had it shipped. When it arrived she came to see it at the farm. She rode it and enjoyed the horse but was never certain it was the horse she’d bought.
Fascinating story going on here with all the parties involved. :rolleyes:
I hope the owners find their horse safe and sound. 
Wow. Just compared a head-on photo of Kanye from Gulfport with the photo of Good Guiness on the Patrick Seaton missing horse flyer and the resemblance is strong.
