I have found my peeps.
My mare has been on 24/7 turnout for about 4 years now. She gets beet pulp/alfalfa cubes in the winter only. No grain.
I’d love to hear more about the theory behind, and the pros and cons of a grain free diet. I’m in the process of revamping the Mare That Isn’t Appy’s feed program so I’m really enjoying reading about a bunch of different feeding philosophies.
I’m a little leery of no grain, the mare is a 10 year old TB, and is only outside for a total of 3 or so hours a day and any additional time out is spent pacing- not eating the good grass. Adding extra hay would be easy- but getting her to actually eat all of it? She prefers to play with it instead :rolleyes:.
This is an interesting topic. I would be interested in taking my pony mare off grain because she has those flighty unsettled tendencies, but she’s a lean one and I’m not 100% knowledgable on the process. Where do you recommend I start? Like what to feed, how much, multi-vit supps, etc?
Right now her diet/lifestyle is this:
1lb TC lite AM & PM
SmartMSM pellets for her itchies
On grass paddock 8hrs of the day and in a stall w/ attached dirt paddock at night (away from the buggies) with free choice grass hay.
Unlike my heifer of a QH (whose head is literally attached to the grass/hay in front of him), she is just a nibbler. But she does eat everything put in front of her.
She’s a medium welsh/tb type
My girl works hard enough, covers enough miles a week that she deserves every bit of grain I feed her. If grain gives a high, I want it. Ride enough and even a grain high is not enough.
I feed 6-8 pounds a feeding.
I’m glad this subject came up. I’ve been contemplating eliminating the little grain they do get. I’ve always been big on hay and not much grain.
How do they adjust to the ‘idea’ of not getting grain? It seems to be the highlight of my guys’ day. Should I eliminate the 1/4 coffee can the one mare gets twice a day? The 17hh gelding gets 3/4 a coffee can twice a day. None of them are hard keepers.
What would you recommend I replace the pellets with? (don’t feed sweet feed) Or just don’t bother making changes since they get so little to start with?
I am open to suggestions and opinions.
[QUOTE=Saidapal;4288696]
I’m glad this subject came up. I’ve been contemplating eliminating the little grain they do get. I’ve always been big on hay and not much grain.
How do they adjust to the ‘idea’ of not getting grain? It seems to be the highlight of my guys’ day. Should I eliminate the 1/4 coffee can the one mare gets twice a day? The 17hh gelding gets 3/4 a coffee can twice a day. None of them are hard keepers.
What would you recommend I replace the pellets with? (don’t feed sweet feed) Or just don’t bother making changes since they get so little to start with?
I am open to suggestions and opinions.[/QUOTE]
Just feed them some Alfalfa pellets or oats instead.
I feed 24/7 hay + alfalfa cubes/pellets, beet pulp and a combo of barley/oats IF needed (I also give flax, and vit/min suppl). I’ve noticed no difference when on or off the “grain.” BUT I will not give over 4# of the bar/oat mixture/day regardless of the horses condition. If that doesn’t keep the weight, I’ll up the falf or add oil. For me it is keeping the balance cal/phos and pulp, alfalfa are great but also very high calc low phos - barley and oats are the inverse as well as flax so I tweak it all trying to keep a nice balance of my vit/minerals. Someone who feeds a high alfalfa diet and adds beet pulp needs to do something to balance that out - whether it’s feeding a RB designed for alfalfa diets or adding something else to the mix.
no grains
I feed my mare Horse Sense A, http://www.vaequineresearch.com/HS-A.htm
She’s a hard keeper and I was worried about the amount of feed I was feeding her. Only 2lbs a day. But she’s nice weight.
She has issues with dry skin but her tail and skin has improved since being on it. Her coat is beautiful. If you’re in VA or MD it would be something to look at. My pocketbook is also great I only pay $35 every 45days. Was paying like $90 a month when I had her on Triple Crown. Nice folks too.
I would love love love to cut out grain.
I tried cutting back and putting him on 2lbs of an RB daily, with added fat, and his attitude and “antsiness” got better but he lost SO much weight. even with good quality free choice hay and good pasture.
He’s back on blue seal senior but I’m still considering options.
A lot of how people feed is REGIONAL. I grew up mostly on the West Coast where we usually feed a 50/50 split of Oat and Alfalfa Hay, grain only added to a horse that is doing seriously hard training/working/showing. By which I mean upper level Three Day, Team Penning, Roping, Racing, Show Jumping, ect. When I moved to the South I found most horses lived on lush pasture year round and needed little to keep fat. Hard working horses were often dry lott-ed, fed on round bails and grain because pasture would make them fat. But when I moved to New England I was SHOCKED by how much grain horses got, combined with MINIMAL turn out in many cases (due to stables being on TINY acreage) and how much more neurotic the horses were. Grain being “included” as part of board was also new to me. Anywhere else you had to buy your own grain. Personally I do not like the huge amounts of grain as part of the diet that is so common in New England. I do not think it is best for horses and leads to horses with to much energy and often to little turn out. On many occasions I bought my OWN alfalfa and Oat Hay (at substantial cost) and had the barn manager feed it instead of grain. No grain seems to be a concept completely lost of MANY people in this area. But the fact is a combination of Oat and Alfalfa has has all the things a ANY horse needs to live well. It has ALL the vitamins, minerals and calories required by the Equine body. If I need more “get up and go” I add grain, but 9 times out of 10 there is no need to. I think most horses would benefit from a no grain, BETTER HAY diet. The common “grass” has fed is nothing more than a filler and is low in value, not to mention SOFT which can lead to impactions. I think to many barns overfeed this low nutrition hay because its “how they were taught”. I have kept horses all over the US and in my experience horses that only get fed three times a day do just as well as horses that live on pasture year round and those that have “empty calorie” filler grass has shoved infront of them 24/7. In my experince its QUALITY OF TURN OUT that plays the biggest roll in how a horse holds its weight, and how neurotic it is (leads to colic). For me its LESS grain, more BIG turn out, and quality (not empty calories) hay.
rougeempire that is an interesting point. Here in NY most of the barns are as you describe. grass hay 2-4 flakes 2x daily, lots of grain-- 10% or 12% pellet and that’s it. Limited turnout. Things are starting to shift, but slowly.
I’m wondering if i should try and buy some of my own alf hay to feed this winter in addition to the grass hay he is getting. don’t mind cubes but like them soaked and that is a pain for the person feeding.
still think my horse has some underlying health issues which contribute to his hard keeper status but doing my best to combat them with the least amount of grain possible…
[QUOTE=FlashGordon;4288890]
rougeempire that is an interesting point. Here in NY most of the barns are as you describe. grass hay 2-4 flakes 2x daily, lots of grain-- 10% or 12% pellet and that’s it. Limited turnout. Things are starting to shift, but slowly.
I’m wondering if i should try and buy some of my own alf hay to feed this winter in addition to the grass hay he is getting. don’t mind cubes but like them soaked and that is a pain for the person feeding.
still think my horse has some underlying health issues which contribute to his hard keeper status but doing my best to combat them with the least amount of grain possible…[/QUOTE]
It’s not a bad idea to purchase additional hay. That’s what I do on top of his hay hay that is provided by the BO. I also give him a snack of Timothy/Alfalfa cubes daily, when I’m there.
Good quality alfalfa and oat hay can be pricey in New England, but you NEED to feed BOTH in a 50/50 split. There is a reason for it. Alfalfa has high mineral and calcium content, over time this can lead to calcium build up in the intestines causing a blockage or “stone”. Oat hay however counteracts the over abundance of minerals and calcium and the two combined BALANCE out the mineral and calcium ratio. Its a very simple way to keep things good and right. You can use alfalfa pellets or cubes as well, I do when the price of Alfalfa Hay gets to high, I still combine it with feeding Oat Hay. When prices are extremely high or the weather is extrememly hot I replace more than 1/3 and sometimes close to 1/2 of hay with soaked Beet Pulp, its a great way to get water into a horse. Extreme weather can cause a horse to colic if they don’t drink enough, soaking (and I do mean sloppy soaking wet) Beet Pulp can help with hydration while helping to cut costs.
I haven’t feed grain in a couple of years…if I get any weight loss I simply up the hay and if that does not work I will feed 2 to 5 lbs of alfalfa over and above their normal amount of hay.
Dalemma
[QUOTE=chancellor2;4287740]
sigh
How do you guys get your boarding barns to feed more hay and less grain?[/QUOTE]
I would be ok with it if a boarder asked to cut their horses grain out and supplement it with more hay. However, the horse would probably kick the crap out of it’s stall if he was passed up at grain time :lol:
[QUOTE=chancellor2;4287740]
sigh
How do you guys get your boarding barns to feed more hay and less grain?[/QUOTE]
LOLwhut???
You TELL exactly how to feed your horse, end of story! I would never remain at ANY barn that did not hay and grain my horses to my exact specifications. If I have to set up grain/supplements a week in advance myself that is fine, but they will feed what I PLAN, not what they feel like. If I every found a barn manager changing my horses diet or quantities I would extremely mad, either they would feed what I want fed and how much or I would find another stable. If I want grain cut back it gets cut back! If I want more hay, less hay, different hay ect ect ect thats how it is even if it means I SUPPLY my own feed.
If I want more grain I can have it. But, I would prefer that he get more hay and less grain. They are a little unhappy at that idea.
[QUOTE=chancellor2;4291006]
If I want more grain I can have it. But, I would prefer that he get more hay and less grain. They are a little unhappy at that idea.[/QUOTE]
That’s how my previous barn was. They’ll feed your horse 50 lbs of grain a day if you want… but ask for ONE more flake of hay? Forget it. :no:
That’s why I moved.
2 Likes
I am hoping that this is a good trend starting…My horse is an OTTB that is 11 years old and is not a hard keeper but he had other issues with being on again off again lame…We went through everything possible until someone said EPSM…I did not do the biopsy but changed the diet. I do not use oils I use rice bran, hay and an organic feed…It is 80% Timothy! Everything in it is very low in NSCs and he only gets 1 pound am and pm along with 1 pound of rice bran pellets am and pm…We have been doing this for about 1 year now and last winter wasn’t very nice here and he was fine…He looks like a million bucks actually…So he gets to eat with the others but no concentrated feeds, or heat treated either… I have to supply my own grain in a baggie and he gets it no problem…So actually the 4 pounds of feed my horse gets is mostly fat and protein no sweet stuff…He gets lots of hay and turnout time. 12 hours at night and he gets some hay in his stall but in the winter he gets about 15 pounds of hay…
We do have some air ferns in our barn but I thikn for a horse that needs more then hay rice bran pellets is the way to go…
JMHO
It might also be the grain you are feeding. I was feeding my tb mare Strategy and her and her other tb friend had so much energy they were bouncing around the pasture and being goofy under saddle.
I switched grains, to one that is for those horses that get hot on other grains.(although it is local) It is mostly alfalfa meal and beat pulp. Totally different horses.
I still had two bags of Strategy left and have been giving them some now just to use it up, mixed with their new grain. They have too much energy again.
