ours is definitely regional. When you live on an island where most people import any hay from hundreds of miles away, feeding pellets and cubes is a lot less expensive than shipping alfalfa or timothy, because of the reduced bulk to ship and also because hay is considered “dangerous cargo” on our ferries due to the fire hazard.
Still I try and feed as much hay as I can get hold of. The German Olympic Team in Atlanta was consdiered revolutionary because their olympic athletes received no grai- only really good quality hay. Horses do not usually need grain if the hay is good quality. it is just a matter of convenience and expense for us.
My little mare Sunny has been going through a distressing time lately. Extremely tight muscles, dehydration, misbehaving, bucking in her stall, kicking a hole in the wall, weird lamenesses…
It has been suggested to me that she has EPSM, or that she is somehow reacting to her feed. So in total desperation last Sunday, I made a decision to take her off grain. Altogether. She now gets soaked alfalfa cubes, corn oil and a little bit of equalizer twice a day. This was a scary proposition for me, because I’ve been struggling to get some weight on Sunny for ages, and had just switched her to a higher-density grain (which I now believe helped exacerbate the problem).
I was told, by the person who suggested removing her grain, that I would see an improvement inside a week. I didn’t believe her at the time. However, in the 5 days that Sunny has been off grain, the muscles in her rump have almost completely relaxed and un-knotted, her coat has begun to shine again, and she hasn’t lost a drop of weight. She is the calmest I have ever known her to be (she’s normally very sensible, but kind of “on red alert” all the time), and her in-stall behaviour has improved dramatically (no more holes in the walls).
I’m a believer.
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[QUOTE=ThoroughbredFancy;4288700]
Just feed them some Alfalfa pellets or oats instead.[/QUOTE]
You mean oats are NOT grain? I always considered oats a type of grain. Is this thread more about commercial bagged grain sweet feed or pelleted feeds?
My fat QH mare was very scared and nervous when I brought her home-she had never left her birth farm before. I let the BO decide what to feed her-he’s the expert. He only gives her hay (he’s a grower) and a scoop of crimped oats at dinner time, no sweet feed. She is relaxed (now) and her coat is healthy & shiney.
I recently asked him if he’d like me to buy a bag of 10% sweet feed to supplement her diet and his answer, “If you want to spend your money. She’s getting a perfectly balanced diet and doesn’t need anything else. Horses don’t get sweet feed in nature, do they?”
Maybe she’ll need supplements later, but so glad for now she’s thriving on “the basics”.
Has anyone experienced rice ban making feeds more tasty for a horse? I’m wondering if I could try beet pulp again if I managed to coat it in rice bran, and hope that she enjoys it.
I also have two oldsters that at the moment get a bit of safechoice, and I’d be interesting in trying them on a non grain concoction. The safechoice is getting the job sort of done, just not as much as I would like.
of course oats are grain. But there’s oats and there’s oats.
My uncle was an oat farmer in manitoba for years before he died. He routinely had his oats tested at 12-14% protein and his entire crop was usually bought by TB breeders in Kentucky.
However, the oats I can buy at the feedstore these days are mostly bran and test as low as 5% protein- good hay is much better nutritionally than that. So commerically available horse oats may be no more troublesome to a horse with metabolic syndrome or cushings than plain grass hay. And unless the oats are crushed or rolled in some way, the horses may not even be able to get that meagre amount of protein out of them- when we fed whole oats in ages past, our manure pile would crop out green oat hay quite nicely.
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I have a rescue mare that I tried lots of different regimes for putting weight on and alleviating ulcer symptoms.
She is now on alfalfa as primary hay with some grass. Beet pulp, a fat supplement and about 1 pound of plain whole oats.
She is slick and shiny, maintaining weight, has quit all the ulcer behaviors and mellowed a lot.
Some of the improvement is just consistent care and handling, but some of it is diet.
I have changed my mare to beet pulp, oil and supplement after she tied up after surgery. I removed her grain, she has lots of nice turnout and pasture and gets her hay. She seems very happy with her new food routine. I can’t put her back into work yet, but she moves around enough outside.
beetpulp/rice bran/alfalfa cubes balanced?
Hey nutrition experts!
Are 2 dry scoops beetpulp, 1 cup rice bran and 1/2 bucket alfalfa cubes balanced?
Also, 1/2 bale timothy hay
bp + rice bran versus low starch
Anyone compare the new low starch grains to our old fashion bp and rice bran?
From what I understand:
-
Beet is lower NSC than even TC Low Starch
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Low Starch grains can be extremely high in soy… which I discovered my guy has an allergy to
I have to say, I have been soy free (and alf free) for over a month and my guy is maintaining beautifully on 1 lb. beet (pre soaked, plain pellets) and 1/2 lb. rice bran at each meal. Actually, he is THRIVING! No more personality disorder, other than his usually quirkiness! I do feed a multivite from Smartpak (Maintenance Grass) and this years 1st cut grass hay on a free choice basis. After years of struggling with wieght flucuations and bizarre behavior I was finally able to take control of his diet when I moved him home 8 months ago. I believe this diet change saved both of us. I was bordering on laying him away due to his dangerous explosions. I could not leave him with anyone and I was in great fear he was going to break a leg during an explosion. It is like having a totally new horse on my hands.
Thanks to COTH for helping me with this change! :lol:
manyspots, just out of curiosity, what breed is your horse?
I’ve heard others mention that alfalfa makes their horses hot. Maybe it is an allergy thing, like the soy. Guess I’ve been lucky on that score.
I am a recent convert to the power/advantages of feeding rice bran.
He is an Appaloosa-mostly QH lines and some TB way back. Take away the spots and you have a big boned old style QH. 
I agree with the Rice Bran… I went back and forth from oil to oats and finally settled on trying the rice bran. All I can say is wow. In no time at all, it filled in the missing link in his diet. He really is an experiment in feed… I have never had a horse so difficult to feed in 20+ years, but I am learning so much as I go!
I held out for a while on the rice bran. It seemed illogical to me. Also, for Cushingoid and IR horses, I thought fat was bad. But, there is no question that far from creating ill effects, it helps them get a better body shape and fills in the skinny horses–in a good way.
I use the pellets since they are easy to feed. The pony who is missing teeth (and has cancer) dribbles a lot because of how wet I have to make her feed. I was worried the oil was getting lost. Pellets seem like a sure-fire way to get the feed into her.
I recently started my OTTB on these as well. He’s another one who just didn’t look quite right on my usual feeding program. Added the rice bran pellets, and he’s filled in areas that had been bugging me. He was one who’d get a pot belly while staying ribby, despite an aggressive worming program. More calories weren’t the answer. Supplying different calories seems to have worked.
I am very interested in this thread. I have a horse on lease to a lesson barn, and I keep hearing about how hot he is which an issue I never had. He is on Strategy and Alf. cubes. He is an easy keeper and at home with me, was on pasture, minerals and handful of a 14% pellet. I have asked the barn to cut the grain completely and just see how he is on hay but they are resistant to that. They say because of the work he needs grain- the “work” is only walking and trotting in a circle for 30 min 3x a week, what most people would not really call work. I never really boarded a horse before since I have always had a farm. I can understand the frustration of people who have a hard time getting their desires met.
[QUOTE=trainingtree;4318922]
I am very interested in this thread. I have a horse on lease to a lesson barn, and I keep hearing about how hot he is which an issue I never had. He is on Strategy and Alf. cubes. He is an easy keeper and at home with me, was on pasture, minerals and handful of a 14% pellet. I have asked the barn to cut the grain completely and just see how he is on hay but they are resistant to that. They say because of the work he needs grain- the “work” is only walking and trotting in a circle for 30 min 3x a week, what most people would not really call work. I never really boarded a horse before since I have always had a farm. I can understand the frustration of people who have a hard time getting their desires met.[/QUOTE]
Buy a bag of hay stretcher pellets or just alfalfa pellets and tell them to feed that instead of grain. That way they can feel good about still feeding the horse something, but technically it’ll be grain free.
Careful with the Hay Stretcher pellets. Can cause choke. I always feed them wet. I think the NSC is @ 22%.
After trial and error with my extremely hard keeper OTTB, I am a believer in a grain-free diet. All you can eat super high quality hay, beet pulp, rice bran and some alfalfa.
Now we have a QH and while it’s easier, it’s not really easier. I knew my TB was getting everything he needed due to the great hay, but this mare is a fatso. I believe in free-fed hay and there is no way this mare can have free-fed super high quality hay and alfalfa or she’d explode. Not only is she an easy-keeper but a serious Hoover vacuum!
For now, she is getting local hay, all she can eat. It’s a bit more than filler. I’ve just ordered her a Nibble Net so that should help. To balance things out and get her the protein and vitamins she is missing in the hay, she gets a ration balancer. Right now I’m using Purina Enrich 32, but I can get the same thing, probably better quality, with LMF Super Supplement G and less of it (1 lb vs. 1.5 lbs.), so I’ll switch her once we get through this bag. I added 1/2 lb of rice bran pellets per day for a little fat and to maybe help her feet and I’m trying the Bioflax because her feet really are her weak point. Then, when she wasn’t thrilled about eating it before PEEING in her food bucket, I added 1/2 lb of whole oats to get her to eat it and now she scarfes it.
She’s new . . . we’ll see how she winters and whether or not she needs a better hay or alfalfa, but I doubt it. I’d never feed corn or sweet feed to a horse again.
When you all say grain free, does that include pelleted feed ie like Purina Horse Chow etc?
I understand grain to be like COB (corn, oats, barley).
[QUOTE=Eventaholic;4288582]
I’d love to hear more about the theory behind, and the pros and cons of a grain free diet. I’m in the process of revamping the Mare That Isn’t Appy’s feed program so I’m really enjoying reading about a bunch of different feeding philosophies.
I’m a little leery of no grain, the mare is a 10 year old TB, and is only outside for a total of 3 or so hours a day and any additional time out is spent pacing- not eating the good grass. Adding extra hay would be easy- but getting her to actually eat all of it? She prefers to play with it instead :rolleyes:.[/QUOTE]
Many people have found that reducing the grain reduces the jitters and increases the horse’s ability to eat more volume of hay.
ThoroughbredEventer - - The difference is your horse is working hard at eventing. You will need some grain.
I’m not a fan of grain either - except in certain instances:
Low workers don’t need grain. Low level is horses are ridden in lower levels of dressage, or ridden at lower levels of jumping where the training isn’t massively intense and extreme physical fitness is not required.
High strenuous sports - racing, eventing, high level FEI show jumping, high level FEI dressage, barrel racing, chuckwagon racing, endurance racing… these horses NEED some grain. Breeding stallions, broodmares and growing kidlets need grain, but it is better to use the balanced kibble rations specific for their needs as these also contain balanced vitamins/minerals (as opposed to just oats). Most of the high quality kidlet rations are also low carbohydrate, but high in fat, vitamins/minerals and are balanced. High carb meals in growing kids is strongly linked to OCD and other bone/joint disorders, especially in thoroughbreds and warmbloods.
If you have a horse who needs to gain weight, try rice bran, beet pulp, oil. Concentrates are not great unless your particular sport can effectively burn off the concentrates.
I have heard a theory floating around that a horse that is a picky eater will start eating less hay if they have too much concentrate, sort of like a child being fed sweets all the time, they start going off their vegetables and fruits. When they removed the grain, the horses sulked for a time, but eventually their appetite for hay picked up. I have actually experienced this myself, but for the life of me cannot find the article any more. Thought I had kept it in my favorites. 
Oops, I just found an error in my own post… I had a feed nutritionist strongly correct me on this statement one day a few years ago. He made sense, but it is a matter of how things are worded and implying stuff.
Where I said grain produces jitters… there is a yes and no to that fact. NO grain does not directly correlate to increased nerves and jitters. YES to the fact has increased nutrients available the them and they start feeling really good and get up to what would be their normally highly-energetic selves and perhaps some of those horses also have a lower ability to contain themselves and their enthusiasm. Reducing the grain reduces the available calories and so their enthusiasm also diminishes.
