Just wanted to thank you all for your input.
We are training for a Long Ride, so we keep to a schedule of stopping to graze for 10 minutes every hour. I swear, you could set a clock to it, they seem to know when chow time is coming up!
I’m enjoying checking in on this thread, because I’ve just started my pony out on trail rides, and my plan all along was to give her a few stops for grazing, even on short rides, because I want her to find trail rides fun & enjoyable. I am having to work on her a bit to make sure she understands that grazing is for when I say it’s OK, not just when a particularly nice looking patch of green shows up.
I like the drive through analogy, too.
I always let my horses graze and grab bites as we go along. I do long distance trail riding, and endurance. My riding horses know how to walk and eat - grab bites and keep moving without stopping. If we’re in taller grass, they can trot and eat. They are not rude and snatching the reins away, but they have been taught that when grass is available, they will always be given free rein to get it. Obviously you don’t want to wander off the trail onto private property, or somebody’s front yard to get grass. But along the marked trail, yes.
Even when I’m not competing - just riding for fun - I might be on the trail for 5 hours. Horses are designed by nature to be continual grazing machines. Going for hours and miles without any food in the gutt is a disaster for the digestive system.
The horse’s stomach constantly produces acid - it doesn’t shut off or slow down just because there’s no food in the belly. The act of trotting and cantering allows that free sloshing acid to reach the upper portion of the stomach which does not have the thick mucosal lining that the lower portion of the stomach has. If you have a nice thick mat of grass in the stomach, that sloshing stomach acid is greatly reduced.
So yes, if my horses are ridden (or ponyed) more than about 30 minutes, I definitely allow grazing.
Yes, they do need to know that the goal is always FORWARD though. They should not get into the lazy habit of coming to a stop and leisurely grazing on the side of the trail every 2 minutes. They need to know to keep moving forward until you give them the go-ahead to graze.
I have no problem with the grab and go, but my horses are athletic enough about it that they aren’t falling over on their faces and dragging me out of the saddle. I ride with very long reins so their head can go completely to the ground without pulling me forward. People run into trouble with short barrel reins that drag you forward off balance whenever the horse tries to eat.
Sweets can even turn her head around and get cookies or carrots from me while trotting without missing a beat. She knows the sound of her velcro pouch opening on her right shoulder. When she hears it, she turns her head around, grabs the food and keeps going.
Also I believe that when you’re riding that many hours and miles (my goal is 100s), the horse darn well better have fun or it’s never going to work. It’s no fun when their belly is on fire from sloshing stomach acid.
[QUOTE=wvjuli;5757956]
We are training for a Long Ride, so we keep to a schedule of stopping to graze for 10 minutes every hour. I swear, you could set a clock to it, they seem to know when chow time is coming up![/QUOTE]
This is a superior program to the “grab a bite” system. Allowing the horse to do that tells me that the horse is paying attention to vegitation and its gut, not to the rider. That’s a setup for rider problems.
The U.S. and British cavalry followed a “clock” system on the march. At 00 they started and moved for 40 min. Mostly it was at the walk, but with regular periods at the trot. Maybe a minute or two at the gallop. Then dismount at 40 and march for 10 min. Then at 50 stop and rest and graze (if available). Then remount at 00 and do it again.
The British were notoriously strict on timing; the Americans not so much so. In training there was more time at the faster gaits as no combat was expected. If the march were a “combat” march then conservation of the horse’s energy, consistent with meeting operational requirments, was paramount (this meant little or no time at the gallop). If the march were “forced” by circumstances more time was spent moving and moving faster. The ratio between trot and walk was “fluid” depending on circumstances. It was often 50/50 with no galloping at all.
Both would break the pattern if graze had been sparse and a good graze area was found. There was also a “nooning” planned and camp was usually made an hour or two before sunset to allow the horses to graze before they were confined for the night.
If you’re involved in a timed event this might not be the program for you. If you’re just “trail riding” it will permit horse and rider to have a far more pleasant experience.
G.
P.S. A unit was expected to be able to travel 30-35 mi./day for multiple days carrying a load that averaged 230-250 lbs. on a 900-1100 pound horse.
That is a matter of opinion. And yes, I absolutely want the horse to pay attention to her gutt. When you’re riding all day, sometimes in bad weather conditions, that horse better tell me when she needs to eat. And remember that eating isn’t just for the gutt, it’s for maintaining electrolyte balance and hydration as well. A horse can get into serious trouble if they aren’t allowed to eat when they need to.
Sometimes I do stop for 5 minutes and let the horse eat, but that is usually at a water tank or creek bank where there is also grass growing.
It’s nothing more than a matter of preference - grab and go, or stop for 10 minutes at a time. To each his own.
But to say that grab and go sets yourself up for problems is not true at all. My horses have absolutely ZERO issues with respect or attention span with the grab and go plan. If for some reason I don’t want them to eat at a particular moment (say a cart is about to pass us, or I want to hurry up and get out of the sun) all I have to do is apply a little leg and we keep moving. No drama or hissy fits.
Now I’m not denying that certain horses have a certain personality that might make them take advantage of the rider, and certain horses can’t be given an inch or they take a mile. Everybody has to do what works and what is right for their situation. But don’t say that the grab and go crowd will have nothing but problems because that is not true.
Our region has some very high mileage 100 mile riders, some are FEI, have done Tevis and Biltmore, Old Dominion, etc. and I have ridden on trail with some of them. Their horses absolutely eat at a trot.
No doubt that it was hard work and the horses and riders both are to be admired. But to compare that to modern day endurance riding is not at all accurate. Undoubtedly they did a fair amount of walking. Most of a 50 mile endurance ride is at the trot.
My horse has a better heart rate if we keep trotting at a nice moderate pace and don’t race ahead or slow down unless footing mandates it is necessary. Going from 4 miles of trotting down to a dead stop and stand still for 10 minutes to eat is just not efficient. Metabolically or time-wise. That is 10 extra minutes I am adding to my ride time where no forward progress is being made, the tack is cinched up tight, the horse is holding my weight. If I’m going to add an extra 10 minutes, I would much prefer to add it to my vet hold so the horse can relax without tack and I can sit down and rest without being on her back. And you’re saying 10 minutes every hour. Well, some loops could be 3 hours long between vet holds, so that’s an extra 30 minutes you’re out on the trail with the horse holding up your weight and bearing the burden of the tack. But if that’s what a particular horse prefers, then definitely do it. But to say that it should always be done that way is a bit silly.
Endurance rides are run against the clock and you have specific parameters to meet when coming into the vet box. So each person has to determine what works best for their horse to meet those criteria and keep the horse happy and healthy throughout the ride.
If that means giving him a 10 minute stop every hour, then absolutely do it. But for some horses forcing them to stop and stand for 10 minutes is very stressful during a competition. My horse in particular will eat better at a trot than she will at a stop. When we stop and stand she gets focused on every little twig crack she hears in the woods or motocycle rumbling by on a nearby highway. If we are moving at a trot, the jingling of my gear and her hoofbeats muffles out a lot of inconsequential noise going on around her.
So again, I don’t think any one system is “superior” to another. Whatever works best for the horse and the situation is in fact what is superior.
I think there is a difference between trail (pleasure) horses and endurance horses, when it comes to eating/drinking/energy demands. My trail horses aren’t allowed to eat/grab as they go half as much - they get to eat when we stop.
my endurance horses on the other hand, I expect them to be smarter (if that makes sense) and be more independent thinking in regards to their needs. they are taught things like eat whenever you need to, drink whenever you need to, cross the trail whenever you need to to get into the shade. We demand a lot more of our endurance horses then our pleasure horses, and therefore it’s more of a partnership, sometimes the horse is right, sometimes the rider is right - the athletic demands of an endurance horse are much higher, so they get way more leeway in seeing to their needs to gas up, slow down, take a break, etc. etc
Whatever you decide to do, just be consistent. I’m a trail rider,not a trail/endurance competitor… so it’s my preference that I get to choose when they eat- the horse might ask with it’s ears/a look, but I decide whether to ignore them and just keep on… or tap their crest w/ my knuckles and verbally say ‘go on’ and let them eat. Mine are taught this through simple repetition. Grabbing on the go is not ok for my horses, and I don’t care one tiny iota what other folks do or don’t do…what I don’t enjoy is riding with folks who are inconsistent- they ride half the day letting them eating and grab on the go, then spend the second half of the day being annoyed by it and ‘correcting’ the horse. How is that horse to know what’s ok /what’s not…when you treat them that way…it’s grating on the ear to deal with that sort of rider.
Just be one or the other, and it’s all good 
I met a fellow along the highway 18 years ago. He was riding his mare, leading his pack mule, along the whole of the Pacific Crest Trail. The trail there paralleled the highway, and the trail was very rocky, so he was on the highway for a bit.
He was having trouble, because his mare was taught NEVER, EVER to grab a bite to eat when a rider was on her back. Even 600 miles later, she would simply not eat with a rider on her back. So she was very thin. The mule was fine. The rider had to modify his plans, call ahead, have a LOT more nutrition available for his mare when they stopped for a bit. He wouldn’t have had to stop as much if his mare would just grab bites on the trail, as the mule did.
I allow my horses to graze when, and where, I want them to. A grazing horse can keep cows right where you found them, if for some reason you want them to stay there for a bit. It’s a fun game for both, for you to choose a specific bit of grass down the trail a few strides, focus on it so the horse knows you chose it, and have the horse grab a bite of that bunch on the way past. You do indeed have to be consistent, and have the horse know when he is allowed, and not allowed to eat. But doing so means a horse has a healthier gut during the ride, and usually is happy to go for a ride with you- because it is fun for him, too, when his stomach doesn’t hurt.
One oddball caveat, eating on a ride could cause choke:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315045
…not that your horse can’t choke at home from eating, but being a ways from home or phone service can make dealing with it more challenging.
[QUOTE=Fillabeana;5761709]
I met a fellow along the highway 18 years ago. He was riding his mare, leading his pack mule, along the whole of the Pacific Crest Trail. The trail there paralleled the highway, and the trail was very rocky, so he was on the highway for a bit.
He was having trouble, because his mare was taught NEVER, EVER to grab a bite to eat when a rider was on her back. Even 600 miles later, she would simply not eat with a rider on her back. So she was very thin. The mule was fine. The rider had to modify his plans, call ahead, have a LOT more nutrition available for his mare when they stopped for a bit. He wouldn’t have had to stop as much if his mare would just grab bites on the trail, as the mule did.
I allow my horses to graze when, and where, I want them to. A grazing horse can keep cows right where you found them, if for some reason you want them to stay there for a bit. It’s a fun game for both, for you to choose a specific bit of grass down the trail a few strides, focus on it so the horse knows you chose it, and have the horse grab a bite of that bunch on the way past. You do indeed have to be consistent, and have the horse know when he is allowed, and not allowed to eat. But doing so means a horse has a healthier gut during the ride, and usually is happy to go for a ride with you- because it is fun for him, too, when his stomach doesn’t hurt.
One oddball caveat, eating on a ride could cause choke:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315045
…not that your horse can’t choke at home from eating, but being a ways from home or phone service can make dealing with it more challenging.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn’t the “fix” for this be to dismount and let the horse eat? Sounds to me like the rider had his head “up and locked.”
G.
For those of you who let their horses grab a bite while on trails, do you pay attention to what they’re eating?
I have an Ottb mare who was quite unsure of going solo on the trails, so I allowed her to grab a bite since it really worked as a pacifier for her and I used that to get her used to trail riding by ourselves. She is a lot better than she was.
However, her snack of choice, if I let her choose, is fern. And I read that fern is poisonous to horses. They probably have to ingest a LOT of it to get any ill effects from it, but still, I don’t let her grab fern anymore. Tree leaves are easier since she doesn’t even have to lower her head for those. The other day she grabbed for leaves and got the whole branch. Before I could lean forward and take it from her, she intentionally stepped on it and ripped all the leaves, then walked on.
On a side note, I once rode a little Icelandic horse on a multi-day trek. He was in a hackamore, and was very talented at grabbing a bite at all gaits, even canter, without breaking or changing gaits or pulling on the reins. Too funny.
I don’t worry about it. I don’t think my horse is going to get enough quantity of any particular thing to cause any problems. I don’t think a well fed horse is likely to ingest a toxic amount of anything, especially when there are other choices available.
I do have friends who are much more particular about what their horses eat.
My horses are fine, and so are their horses.
[QUOTE=sophie;5778454]
However, her snack of choice, if I let her choose, is fern. And I read that fern is poisonous to horses. [/QUOTE]
From what I understand, the fern that is toxic is bracken fern, and it depletes vitamin B1 – so I assume it would take a fair amount to have an effect. Other types of fern, like the sword fern that grows a lot around here, are apparently okay. My horse certainly seems to think so.
'plash
I will add, that if you let your horse eat on the trail be mindful of the rider behind you so they don’t get nailed in the face when your horse lets go of a tree branch after he’s eaten the leaves off of it.
I’m a similar type of trail rider - One to two hours.
And NO, I don’t let my mare stop and graze when she feels like it. If she has her nose down navigating, and grabs a bite, that’s fine as long as she keeps going. If she is passing a tree and grabs a few leaves, fine if she keeps going.
I previously had a trail horse that was obviously allowed to stop at will to graze.
It got to the point that trail riding wasn’t even fun, as it was a constant battle to keep his head up and my arms ached from him yanking the reins whenever he wanted a bite.
When your friend’s arms start getting sore from having them ripped out of the sockets by a horse who drops it’s head whenever he feels like it, she just might change her mind. Then, she’ll have a heck of a time trying to retrain him, never mind confusing her horse.
