Thank you for the feedback- very helpful! It’s interesting what you said about the Mini Am Sheperds, there’s a breeder I’ve been ‘following’ (via their website) and they’re already expecting I think their 6th litter since May, and they seem to let buyers pick pups immediately (by sex/color preference, I guess?) as opposed to other breed breeders websites, many of which specifically say that they will pair puppies with buyers based on assessments done around 7-8 weeks, rather than buyers choosing puppies. And most also note that they onky have 1-2 litters per year, at most. So, some differences I have definitely observed. At the moment, I think my top breed contendors are the Sheltie and Collie. Maybe we’ll eventually get 1 of each 
I would call that a classic “home operation” puppy mill.
6 litters since May - buyer picks? They are churning out puppies for money, and pet buyers like to “pick their own.”
I know a lot of breeders. The market for GOOD homes is not that fast. Even though most breeders I know have waiting lists, it’s common for them to sell puppies to pet homes and also advertise that they have puppies available. It’s not unusual in my breed for a litter to end up with 10+ puppies and sometimes you only have 5-6 on the waiting list.
So it’s not that they are only willing to sell to show or competition homes. But no way could most sell that many puppies to GOOD homes in such a short time unless they didn’t care where they went.
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Yeah that’s sort of what I’ve been concluding as I’ve watched the past couple of months. I actually know 2 people who have gotten puppies from this breeder in the past coup li e of years and they’re both very happy with their dogs and had good things to say about the breeder, and the breeder does also show them, but…I just wonder how much training and socialization they’re able to do when they have so many puppies at once.
Well, I’d be more concerned about the “vetting” of the prospective homes. Even good breeders who carefully vet their placement homes have puppies that don’t work out for some reason or another - and so they take them back. But at this rate, I have to wonder how they make sure the puppy is going to a home that understands the breed and is prepared for what they are getting…and if not, what happens then?
I am a Standard Schnauzer fan and my breeder has a 4 page questionnaire for new folks. She only has 1 litter maybe 2 a year. Her list works that repeat owners get first notice of up coming litters and then the new owners. You must come to them to visit and even then thy do not guarantee that you will get a pup. But she also will take a dog back no matter the reason you can no longer keep them. She was the most supportive person when I went through Lymphoma with my Fritz and all the owners of litters mates send emails with sympathy and support. I would not hesitate to recommend this breeder to anyone. Nor would I want to deal with one who didn’t go to that length to make sure the home was a right match for all.
I have both an Aussie and a Pyr. And Good Lord NEVER would I want a mix of them together LOL!
Reputable breeder for Aussie is a good idea
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Yes, I would say that’s a bad sign about the breeder.
I have a great pyr mix that has some border collie and something else that is a wonderful dog. Rescued when mom had litter under car near barn. She’s 90 lbs and has been the easiest dog. Crate training was accomplished in a day. She just turned 2 and is a couch potato. Really sweet dog that loves to cuddle.
Everyone can give an example of a mixed breed that was a good dog. That’s not the point - the point is whether it makes sense to intentionally combine a LGD with a herding breed. Do you get a big herding dog? A really small LGD? A LGD that runs its flock in circles all night? Etc.
Much MUCH better site for doing this:
http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/
The AKC is not in fact a reputable source of information about dog breeds except as show dogs, which is something most dog owners have little to no interest in.
Do not expect any AKC Aussie to herd your goats. Because they almost certainly will lack the instinct–not the prey drive to chase, but the instinct to actually herd. For that you would have to look for working-bred Aussies, and those won’t be found in the AKC.
Check out the website Working Aussie Source for working bred Aussies. Or you might look into English Shepherds, a similar breed with more presence on the east coast.
Eh…the breed comparison feature was aided by the breed parent clubs, most of which have interests in all facets of the breed, not just the conformation end. So, it is simply a starting point if you like a certain breed you may also find similar features in other breeds. It was never designed to be a “review” of the breed – that role is also best suited by the parent club - all of which are linked from the AKC site.
Some breeds - specifically some of the herding breeds - have had splits in their parent clubs because they did not want their breed defined by a conformation standard - I believe Border Collies might have been one of them. There may be two national clubs, only one of which is the “AKC parent club”. But that doesn’t mean that an AKC registered Aussie can’t herd. Because no dog has to actually meet the breed standard in order to be registered.
The AKC is simply a registry and title-granting entity. They do not have any control over the breed standards, whatsoever. That all comes from the parent clubs. And parent clubs can’t control what is being bred, they can just give guidelines.
To really know a lot about a breed - get out and see them in action, interact with them, and talk to owners and breeders. There is really no good online substitute for that.
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IF you are interested in aussies, so buy the books by Jeanie Joy Hartnagle and by her brother, and find a reputable breeder. Not just any breeder, but one who shows either bench or herding or both. I’ve been to nationals in Colorado and in GA, so you can find an aussie show near you and meet the breeders. Australian Shepherd Club of America is the place to go to online and those aussies are AKC as well. I bought aussies long before the AKC took them in. The aussies are the same. My first one had been trained to be a seeing eye dog by a family friend in California. He flunked out as a seeing eye dog but moved right in with us and herded the neighbors’ cats till I took all the cats in. Great herding dog. My other aussies all lived in big cities as guard dogs. Yes aussies can live in subdivisions, they just lay up in bed till the garbage pickup and then they raise cain (cane?))because their garbage is being stolen. No one burglarizes you if you own an aussie or two or three.
Just buy from a breeder who shows bench or agility or herding. Do NOT buy from a backyard breeder or you’ll get an aussie with issues. Your aussie will be fine since even the Hartnagles register their great aussies with the AKC. They developed the breed, so go buy their books, plural. Joseph Hartnagle had one book, Jeanne Joy Hartnagle had the other book.
Listen to what 1969 has told you above.
I wasn’t aware ANYTHING could effectively herd goats. Or so all the goats I know have indicated
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Well, speaking as someone who has trained and used Aussies as stockdogs, and spent quite a bit of time with it, I will reiterate – do not get an AKC-only registered Aussie if you want it to herd livestock. You will be disappointed. Why is this? Because, long story short here, the AKC show Aussie is a genetic split from the original land race Aussie of the western US. Their founder base is just a handful of dogs. None of which had any herding instinct. Yes, they are very smart, obedient, great at agility, and all that --but they lack in herding instinct department, which is complexly inherited and very easy to lose over generations not selected for those traits.
Many but not all working type Aussies (original type) are dual-registered with the AKC, but ALL of them will be registered with ASCA, which is NOT affiliated with AKC at all. ASCA is the largest stand-alone breed club in the US.
The AKC-affiliated breed club for the Aussie is USASA. And both national clubs have nationals. You can just imagine the politics …
Now, many Aussie owners believe their dogs can herd, because hey, they are a Herding Breed! And with a skilled trainer, some AKC Aussies can be trained to herd well enough to go to low-level herding trials and have fun. But this is not the same as a working-bred dog with the instinct and drive to control livestock. Trust me, it isn’t at all.
My dogs successfully worked goats, chickens, geese, ducks, cattle and sheep in ranch and farm situations. I kept a herd of goats for many years and my Aussies definitely herded them. A good herding dog with some guts and finesse has no problem herding goats.
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And just as a side note – the Hartnagles did not develop the breed. What they did was develop a very well publicized image of themselves as developers of the breed. They don’t have much cred inside the Aussie world.
I personally have done both. My breed of choice is a shar-pei. In a rescue situation I opt to go with a rescue that uses foster homes. A foster parent really “knows” the animal and can openly share all of the good and bad qualities. I have had good experiences with breeders, and have been burned. Even the most carefully researched, vetted, reference called “breeder of merit” through the AKC can knowingly provide you a junk dog.
My most recent pup has shar pei fever, which is exceptionally common and not a surprise to me. In this case I searched and searched and dug to find a breeder that was DNA testing and did not have fever in the lines. 4 months old, first fever. Breeder copout “We don’t consider anything below 104 a fever in the Shar Pei world.” WRONG. A fever is a fever. I adopted a 6 year old Shar-pei pug with skin allergies. The foster was honest about the maintenance required to keep him happy. He is an absolute DREAM of a dog.
Long story short I have personally had successes and failures in both worlds. I also have small children, other pets, and the want to have a dog I could take around with me. Go with your gut. Sometimes overthinking it leads to a poor choice because you feel like you lined up all your facts.
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The AKC Breeder of Merit program has various levels of recognition. The basic level only requires that the breeder is a member of an AKC club, has been active in AKC events and have titled 4 dogs…and that they register all their puppies with AKC. They have to “self-certify” that they perform applicable health screens - but there is no specific list to be met, no proof required, and no proof that the breeder actually uses the results to help them determine appropriate breeding. Many times, the “Breeder of Merit” thinks they are doing the right things but just don’t know enough about potential health issues…e.g. they do hip xrays only, and think that is enough. And, in reality, it’s more than many breeders that are not “breeders of merit” actually do, so it’s a starting point.
The Advanced recognition level requires the breeder to demonstrate proof of health testing “as required by the parent club.” The AKC site expects hips and eyes to be evaluated for my breed, but most good breeders do more than that - they evaluate for elbows, patellas, and often thyroid and cardiac issues.
AKC is not a “stamp of approval” to substitute the buyer being responsible for evaluating breeders. People are quick to slam AKC as if they have put their name out there as this type of stamp of quality, but it’s only a starting point. The Breeder of Merit program at least directs you to breeders who have achieved titles and claim that they health test their dogs – but it’s your responsibility to actually make sure they do. It’s at least a step up from “breeders” on Craigslist that don’t claim either…but that’s about it.
Just did some reading on FSF and it seems that <104F is not associated with this condition. All dogs get fevers from time to time - did you test for tickborne illness? Tickborne illness would be a very likely cause for a fever of <104F.
It depends on who you ask. The leading expert, Dr. Tintle, who was the main creator of the SPAID DNA test and had a hand in identifying the gene that causes fevers disagrees. She calls it a fever at 103. Even if the fever does not spike over 104, which is fair to say it generally does, the classic FSF symptoms are roached back, swollen hock (s), and self-limiting fever. Hela girl had all of the above. Fever was only a tinch below 104 so that’s why I felt it was a cop-out when I told the breeder clearly she has all FSF symptoms and should not continue breeding that line (Since she had in writing that her lines have not had any fevers). Lo and behold, she has continued breeding that line sad face
As for ticks, we don’t get them in my area. It is always the first thing I double check though since Pei are ultra tick sensitive.
Shar-Pei really are a fascinating breed, junk genes and all =). I like to call them my one-in-a-million dogs with a million dollar vet bill. I don’t ever go into it thinking I am totally risk free from all their potentially inherited issues. I just like to hope that one day we can save them, one responsible breeder a time.
