Green Horse- Keep?

I half agree - with the additional information, I’d say OP should sell the horse and change their trainer.

Not every trainer is good at things like installing lead changes on a horse that may not have a very natural change. If you want to sell, given the price point to recoup some of your losses, I’d find a trainer to teach her changes first. But unless there’s some major personality or behavior issue with this horse that will maybe make her never suitable for your needs, I can’t see it taking 3 years to get the horse confident jumping 2’-2’6”.

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Another piece to process is what are current clients doing at this barn? There are a lot of places where showing 3’ is seen as a final goal and the trainer may have a lot of students who do very well at local unrated shows in 2’3-2’9 with top students showing above this height.

In contrast, there are barns where they may have a handful of students showing at 2’6 but most are showing 3’+ and may have riders crossing disciplines into jumpers and eq. At barns like this, the trainer may have a whole list of talented riders who can hop on the horse and ensure that the horse can cruise around a course with different riders and not just the pro.

What a local type of trainer may see as a two year project is a 3 months project for a better trainer.

If the barn culture is something you really love and you love this horse, I’d send it out to the best professional you can find in your area that will do short term training. Have someone get your horse cruising around a 2’6 course with changes and then enjoy the slower pace of a small local barn. Not everyone wants to show at WEG. However, two years of mediocre training is going to cost far more than a few months with a really good pro.

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Thanks @findeight and @SadieRidingHorses and why do you think that @mmeqcenter (I mean about selling the horse?) Thank you.

Keep the horse; ditch the trainer.

I have a weirdo mare who will never be a packer. She’s smart, sensitive, and can pull some athletic stunts in mid air. Also, half TB.

The gal I sent her to had her doing changes and going over small courses in <60 days, quietly. (Video proof: https://www.instagram.com/p/B_3fhSPJQhr/ )

You’re being played. Either your trainer has your number and you’re paying their bills (malicious), or they’re delusional thinking this is normal (idiocy). Regardless of the intent behind it, in either scenario, you end up as the loser. :pensive:

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You wanted a packer, you thought you were buying a packer, you did not get a packer. Based on your self-definition as nervous, I wouldn’t suggest keeping a green horse. Even with a trainer who doesn’t use you, you have quite a while for a little green-bean to become a “packer.”

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There is a lot here that is hard to know. The single most important thing is it is almost never a good idea to buy a horse without riding it first. I take it you didn’t see a video either? Did you discuss with your trainer that you expected a packer and got a training project instead? That is a very, very big gap. I assume you knew right from the start that the horse was not what you expected. Was there ever a mention of sending her back? How old is this horse? Did you take lessons with this trainer before you purchased the horse? Are you boarding with the trainer and she rides it on the days you don’t?

I generally don’t like to throw trainers under the bus because it is almost impossible to know what the truth is when we only get one side. However, the difference between a packer and a horse that doesn’t have a change and can’t canter a 2’6" course is way too big to be excused by the horse being misrepresented by the seller. Unless your trainer presented the horse as green but a bargain because the horse was so fancy, or you were not going to find what you wanted in your price range and it might be better in the long run to make up your own, you were not served well. There is almost nothing you can do at this point to correct this issue, except to change trainers because at the minimum, this person had a green rider buy an unsuitable horse sight unseen. It is also possible you were impatient and failed to hear what cautions your trainer offered in this situation, so think carefully about exactly how you got to this place.

I also generally do not like to put a time frame on how long it takes to get a horse to a certain place, because it takes as long as it takes. But if you have had the horse in training for nine months and it hasn’t progressed any farther than it has, she is either receiving poor training, or she is such a slow learner, she might never work for you. The only way to know this is, once again, to take her to a different trainer. It is also possible your trainer has a very specific set of skills she likes her horses to master before moving on to the next set of skills. In which case, her training might seem like it is slow, but that by the time she is jumping 2’6" courses, she has everything else down pat and will suddenly be all caught up. Do you have the skills to assess the training program by ignoring what you are being told and seeing what is before your eyes?

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Personally, I would say move on if you can make the economics work. You have now established that the current trainer can’t get the job done with the current horse. At a minimum you would need to get the horse to a different trainer if you wanted to keep her. But it sounds like you are at a stage where you need to be able to focus on you, not on bringing along a green horse. This could take a while (as you’ve now experienced), and could really set you back in your riding and your confidence. At this stage, something already doing the job is what you need. The lack of a lead change will hurt you on resale value, if you can find someone to fix that, it will help a lot. Current trainer’s rationale on not teaching the lead change makes no sense - although you don’t want someone to force it and make it a “thing” for the horse, nine months is a long time to have not made progress on that. The sooner you can remedy the situation the better, I had a green one that wasn’t coming along as expected, and before I could sell the horse it got injured and ended up needing a long rest and rehab process to get going again, and I wished I had done something about the situation much sooner. Get yourself something that can CURRENTLY do the job you want it to do, you won’t regret it!

Yes, the picture is getting more nuanced.

If the horse was basically bought for you by the trainer, and no one noticed it didn’t have lead changes, that’s a huge FAIL for trainer.

OP: can you ride and enjoy this horse now without lead changes and improve your riding, or does the horse scare you?

How often does the trainer ride?

What level are the trainers other clients at? What level did they compete before COVID? What level did trainer compete at?

Without more details, it’s impossible to tell what’s going on.

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Wow, cute horse and you obviously sent her to the right person! See, this is a testimony that it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to put good mileage on a young horse, even if they’re quirky.

There are usually one of two reasons a prospective hunter horse does not have lead changes installed. *Could be a combination of the two.

  1. The rider/trainer is not skilled at installing/training lead changes

  2. The horse has a physical condition(s) that makes lead changes difficult.

In Europe, lead changes are usually installed as soon as the young jumper prospect horse is W, T, C under saddle.

I agree with the other posters, keep the horse and try to find a new trainer. ***If you are in an area with mainly western riding, try to seek out a trainer that does ‘reining or cow horses’. Those reining trainer/riders can install some of the smoothest lead changes.

PS Maybe think about showing in flat classes; if jumping 2’ intimates you. Be safe and have fun.

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Oh wow, 9 months in and doesn’t even have changes in the works? New trainer, ASAP. Someone else should have her coursing 2’6-2’9 in that time with changes. If she’s then closer to what you’re looking for, great, keep her; if not, having changes started will greatly help recoup your funds. Most every show barn is going to be teaching jumping and lead changes simultaneously, otherwise the baby green division would be full of 8 year olds.

Any level-headed broke horse is capable of the above and even plenty of non-level headed ones (see: Europe).

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I’m right there with you on this one. Green + Green = Black and Blue.

If someone wanted a packer, then the best idea is to buy a packer and not a green horse. This makes absolutely no sense at all. How the trainer even advises this is mind boggling.

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Thank you everyone for such wonderful insight and suggestions. I truly appreciate such shared wisdom! I am not trying to throw my trainer under the bus- quite the opposite! She found a sweet, lovely horse (yes online! yes video!) and said horse is great but just super green. I think I need to figure out if I can wait the process out or if- given my age and nervousness- need to sell her. But it’s not an easy proposition because she is also a kind lovely mare who I love riding on the flat. Thanks again, all.

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