Group Stalls?

[wildlifer]

@GraceLikeRain

To me, group stalls that are open is just another name for run-in sheds.

That they are & OP, what I did is pretty much what you describe. I have 12 x 24’ for two horses. I think the only difference is that the entire end is open (no doors), so escape is easier. I would definitely recommend removable dividers for feeding – they come in handy for so many other things. Mine is a super sophisticated leftover piece of fence tape hung from bucket straps, haha, but it works fine. I agree with other that flexibility is awesome & my experience has been, the more modular things, the better.

Horses can definitely trap each other anywhere - even with my wide open shed & friendly geldings, the submissive one can find himself doing some contortoinist leaping to escape boss teeth & has skinned himself on a wall a couple times. Some of that is just sensitive young horse dramatics, LOL, boss is not generally overly violent & gives warning looks first, but nonetheless the submissive ones don’t always do the best job of planning ahead. And mine are two horses that will also often graze off the same clump of grass, so it’s not like they are enemies.

I can understand why you want a back wall since you live in MN (brave souls) – I would recommend making exit doors wider than a standard dutch door if you do that for escape reasons, to save hips. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say they wish their doors were narrower, so I can’t think of any downsides to doing that offhand (other than non-standard door sizes, but if you are building your own or built on site by contractor, it shouldn’t be a huge price difference).

[Willesdon]

Remove the hind shoes. It reduces the risk from kicks.

[4horses]

If you want them to share the space, why have stalls at all? Just leave it as a big run in.

It sounds like you could even install 3 stalls for severe weather, injury, or feeding, but leave the rest of the shelter as a run in. Lock the stalls when they aren’t in use.

I would not be comfortable with group stalls. I have a very old horse who can’t get out of the way, a bossy gelding, and two mares. Everyone coexists well in pasture, with the exception of the bossy gelding, but the idea of them sharing a barn makes me cringe. Two of my mares would probably even share a stall okay, but definitely not the other two.

[Hulk]

I have been doing it for over 30 years with no problems. The horses seem to like it. I have what seems to be a very relaxed herd. The key I think is that there is plenty of room, and plenty of food and water. There are 2 large doors. And one entire side is a hay manger. The herd also has 2 large open fields full of grass. So no resource guarding. In the winter I put round bails outside and keep the manger full inside.

I also have box stalls for individual needs for the horses. But for pasture time its real nice to not have to worry if a bad storm comes out of no where that the herd can get in out of it. So basically I guess it is like a huge run in shelter.

[walkinthewalk]

@Scribbler

Horses do well in herds but not so well when they can trap each other against fences or corners. Even horses who like each other can get in dangerous kick to the death fights if one can’t escape the other.

House them together but with open ended shelters with nowhere to get stuck.

^^^^^THIS! I had it happen once, with my own. There was only four of them — they had been together for many years.

I almost lost the horse that got hurt.

[spacytracy]

I have three harmonious ponies that we are building a barn for. I thought about run ins instead of stalls, for the ease of them going in and out at will, healthier for the horses, etc. However, I was thinking of today and not the future. What if I get a new horse that’s not as friendly with others? What if I need to quarantine someone? What if they end up fighting for food?
In the end, for us, stalls leading to a covered dry lot was the better option for us.
Horses get along great in those situations in most cases, but one bossy one can really mess up the entire situation.

[Palm_Beach]

@Holly Ridge Farm

We’re building our barn as a run-in style. It will have a !0’ x 48’ overhanging roofline, and currently opening into three 12 x 12 stalls. We’re thinking about changing our plans to make the stalls into one 12 x 12 (for times when one horse may need to be isolated ) and the other into a 12 x 24…or possibly one big community stall - 12 x 36. We’re also looking into possibly making the dividing walls between the stall into hinged walls that could be used either opened OR closed to give us all options. The stall (s) would still have 3 dutch doors open all the time out to the overhanging roof and dry lot beyond. I’ve read that a number of equine facilities in Europe are converting to community stalls based on research showing the positive calming effect group housing has on horses. Thoughts from the forum gurus? Pros/cons?

Can you leave it one big stall with the option of closing one section off with panels? I’m not familiar with Minnesota winter, but in the Mid Atlantic area, it never get so cold that horses need to be housed. Mine are out all winter. I would only bring them in if the ground was ice.

[Guilherme]

To make sure we’re all on the same page we should define “stall” as a small to medium enclosure with four sides and a closed entry. It’s an area where the horse(s) in it do not have the ability to either effectively distance themselves from each other or leave the enclosure.

Any sort of structure, of any number of sides, that is open so that the horses may come or go as they wish is not a stall. Call that what you wish, but the phrase “run in” is pretty common.

When threatened the horse’s first instinct is to flee. Corner them and one of two things will happen: they will either fight or the less aggressive horse will quit. What it will be will depend on the temperaments of the horses involved. No matter what those may be a horse is going to get injured, maybe seriously and maybe even fatally. The only winner in the fight is going to be vet. who has to take care of the damage. Take the ability to escape away from a horse and you create a new set of problems with really multiple, possible outcomes. The, “well, it’s never happened to me” answer is valid as far as it goes. A fair way to amend the statement is to add the word “yet” at the end.

G.

[clanter]

@Guilherme

Any sort of structure, of any number of sides, that is open so that the horses may come or go as they wish is not a stall. Call that what you wish, but the phrase “run in” is pretty common.

G.

that was my thought also, I guess Group Stall is the new in thing for some, run in shed was want we referred to such as. These are “Group Stalls” for all but the lowest in the herd who gets to stand outside viewing in wondering what it is like to be under cover

[Scribbler]

@clanter

that was my thought also, I guess Group Stall is the new in thing for some, run in shed was want we referred to such as. These are “Group Stalls” for all but the lowest in the herd who gets to stand outside viewing in wondering what it is like to be under cover

I wonder if it’s just a question of things getting different names in different cultures.

In North America particularly rural areas or prvately owned acreage, the big pasture with a run-in shed or shelter is a very common, efficient, cost effective and horse friendly way to keep most horses, especially recreational horses, young stock and retired horses.

In suburbs or if you need access to a big training barn with indoor arena etc you have to board at s barn with limited turnout usually. But my feeling is almost everyone knows pasture and a run in is healthiest even if they don’t want to keep their $100,000 elite show horse in that situation.

The group stall term is coming it seems as a translation from Europe where perhaps with less space horses have tended to be kept in barns more? But honestly importing this concept back to North America especially the West or any more rural area is just reinventing the wheel.

OP if you think about run in shelter rather than “group stalls” there is so much advice out there including depth siting drainage and prefab options like car ports.

[Holly_Ridge_Farm]

I really appreciate all the thoughts offered. On rereading my original post, I should have clarified; we have 3 horses -geldings, 16.2hh-30 yrs, 16.2hh-17 yrs and 17.2hh-5 yrs. All are pretty lo-key and accustom to living together albeit in a 10 acre pasture in a herd of 10. When I originally posted last month we were living in Minnesota and horses were at a boarding facility. My question related to our upcoming plan for moving and building our own place in the North Carolina Sandhills. We’ve now moved and thanks to your COTH input, we’d revised our plan: the 3 horses will be on pasture 24/7, with 3 rotational pastures that each have access to the main sacrifice lot surrounding barn. The barn has a 10’ x 48’ "run-in"overhang leading in to three 12x12 enclosed stalls (one with a removable center wall (allowing it to be 12x24 if needed) the stalls have dutch doors but will be left open for access “by choice” to escape heat of the day or severe weather, but closable as needed.We’ve just arrived last Monday, horses are in transport due to arrive tomorrow. Fencing, waterers, hay racks etc all set ready and anxiously waiting! Thanks for the combined wisdom!

[Lucassb]

@Bluey

After spending a lifetime managing horses in herds of all sizes, in pastures and pens of all sizes, we even kept our stallion out with the geldings and he was middle of the pack and minded the boss very well, I now think that all along we were trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
Even if we had horse pastures miles long, some times horses just could not get away when one wanted to hurt another.

Few really have the arrangement and large enough space for horses to get away from each other when they have differences and those happen so easily, even between the best friends.

I have seen horses be very ugly to each other, intending to and doing grave harm.
Luckily not any of the assaults or fights I saw with our horses did serious harm but one, a broken front leg right below the elbow.
Some other pasture accidents we did wonder if those happened when a horse was trying to get away from another chasing him.

Yes, horses are horses and they will have their differences and not that often, so we keep taking chances.

By now, I am much less apt to take those chances and finding out that mature and older/old horses don’t necessarily need to be where they can get to each other, that just having horses around is good enough to be happy.

The bossy horse can relax if he can’t spend all day managing his herd and the ones below a top horse are happy not to have to watch their back and be second to any resources, water, food and their humans to those horses above them.

Much less stress for everyone.

One clear advantage of horses in larger groups is that it takes much less fencing to have more horses in one place than more places for less horses per space.
Those spaces to move around will be larger the more horses we can run together in one, compared with cutting that space down to smaller spaces.
Also horses in herds tend to move around more naturally as the herd shuffles around, even a herd of two.

I think those are management decisions every one has to make for their own horses and one size doesn’t fit all.
When some insist today horses need to live in herds with others or horses are not cared for properly, as some are saying today, well, the response is, “no, not really, it depends on the horses and situation”.

I would build for flexibility and not get hung on one or another kind of management, but understand that how we arrange our horse spaces may change according to whatever horses we have at any one time.

Let’s not keep trying to fit square pegs on round holes, as we have done for long time now when it comes to keeping horses happy, ignoring what horses are telling us because we think they have to like living in our idea of what a horse herd environment is supposed to be.

This is very well said.

I have a 14 x 36’ run in shed that is set up with one 14 x 12’ “stall” that has full gates across the front and back and one 14’ x 24’ space that is open on the front. The whole thing opens up into a nice decent sized paddock.

I thought this would be a great set up to use in summer when (I thought) the horses might prefer to be out at night instead of in their regular stalls in my center aisle barn.

Even with just 2 horses out there, this set up ended up with horses getting “into it” with each other too frequently for me to feel comfortable using it and I abandoned the idea - and this is basically a closed herd of horses that know each other well and one would think, have an established hierarchy.

[Guilherme]

@Holly Ridge Farm

I really appreciate all the thoughts offered. On rereading my original post, I should have clarified; we have 3 horses -geldings, 16.2hh-30 yrs, 16.2hh-17 yrs and 17.2hh-5 yrs. All are pretty lo-key and accustom to living together albeit in a 10 acre pasture in a herd of 10. When I originally posted last month we were living in Minnesota and horses were at a boarding facility. My question related to our upcoming plan for moving and building our own place in the North Carolina Sandhills. We’ve now moved and thanks to your COTH input, we’d revised our plan: the 3 horses will be on pasture 24/7, with 3 rotational pastures that each have access to the main sacrifice lot surrounding barn. The barn has a 10’ x 48’ "run-in"overhang leading in to three 12x12 enclosed stalls (one with a removable center wall (allowing it to be 12x24 if needed) the stalls have dutch doors but will be left open for access “by choice” to escape heat of the day or severe weather, but closable as needed.We’ve just arrived last Monday, horses are in transport due to arrive tomorrow. Fencing, waterers, hay racks etc all set ready and anxiously waiting! Thanks for the combined wisdom!

You’re welcome!!!

It sounds like you have a good program. The one thing you will learn you need more in SC than you did in MN is some shade for horses on a summer days. It need not be very sophisticated. A nice stand of trees will do quite well. If you don’t have that then you can get “shade panels” from FarmTec that can be mounted on polls to provide shade. You know iive where heat, not cold, is the enemy!!!

Good luck in your new location.

G.

[4LeafCloverFarm]

Great update. Congrats on your new place!

[Holly_Ridge_Farm]

Yes! We’re very excited! We cleared the heavily forested property -12 acres - to give us an open area around the house and barn while leaving as many of the bigger Loblolly Pines and hardwoods for shade around the pastures…yet still allowing for plenty of open grazing. When the horses arrive tonite it will be a shocker from the 20 degrees in MN! I’m pretty sure I’ll have some body clipping to do once we start riding! I know summers will seem really hot - but its gorgeous right now!

[4LeafCloverFarm]

And we require pictures, you know… :winkgrin:

[Mouse_amp_Bay]

You might find the John Madden retirement stables to be interesting to view. Neat video here:

https://youtu.be/jhePxaadJHk

Very much a group setting for them all.

[Trimming]

Congrats on the new place! I hope everyone loves it.

In case it helps someone, here’s how mine is set up:

I have a 20x24 pole building. 10x16 is a tack/feed/hay room. Next to that is an 8x10 stall with an 8 foot sliding stall door that opens to the 10x24 run in section. The run-in section has two openings on opposite sides. Let me see if I can add a picture, not to scale, but it gives you the idea. I only have mini/pony sized things and have no intentions of getting anything bigger than 13hh. If something over 13hh was in the plans, the dimensions would be much larger.

The majority of time the three boys hang out in the 10x24 section with their hay nets. The stall door is only normally closed if I have the youngest in to eat separately. Otherwise, it’s open to the run-in section. I’ve found all three of them in in there at night together, the youngest laying down and the other two standing next to him.

[ElementFarm]

@Holly Ridge Farm

Yes! We’re very excited! We cleared the heavily forested property -12 acres - to give us an open area around the house and barn while leaving as many of the bigger Loblolly Pines and hardwoods for shade around the pastures…yet still allowing for plenty of open grazing. When the horses arrive tonite it will be a shocker from the 20 degrees in MN! I’m pretty sure I’ll have some body clipping to do once we start riding! I know summers will seem really hot - but its gorgeous right now!

Since we apparently live in the same area now, some advice:
-Yes, shade is important, but your overhang should suffice perfectly for that. If you don’t already have sealed-motor fans in the stalls or even in the overhang, that might be a good winter project–you’ll want them this summer. We have them in every stall and in the run-ins.

• Since you just cleared the land, your pasture isn’t well established, and with our sandy soil, new grass is fragile. I recommend planting winter rye (annual) if you haven’t already. That will give the sandy soil some structure. Also, round bales (if you’re willing to feed Bermuda, or maybe fescue) are great to give the horses something eat all winter without destroying the pasture. For small bales, be prepared for sticker shock. Unless you’re willing to feed Bermuda, hay prices will be double or triple what you paid in the Midwest.

Congrats, and welcome to the area. If you haven’t already, join the Sandhills Area Equestrians and Sandhills Equestrians FB pages.
I’m currently deployed to AFG, but can’t wait to get home next month and eat at Betsy’s crepes. if you want a trail riding buddy send me a PM.

[S1969]

I would not do this instead of stalls. I might do it in addition to stalls.

Any time you want to interact with horses directly, it is easier when they are separated – feeding, grooming, tacking, vet, farrier, isolating for observation, injury, blanketing, medicating…the list goes on and on.

I have stalls that open to the paddock with Dutch doors and to the barn aisle with sliding doors on the other side. They are only solid on the bottom half, so horses are “together” all day when they stand in them, but are fully separated every night for feeding.

It would totally stink if they were in one communal stall for feeding; it would definitely be a fight for resources, and my most needy mare would always get bullied off her food unless I tied them or used feed bags.

Not to mention all the other things I listed above.