hair in helmet, good or bad?

With long, thick hair and a giant head, I have never had the option of riding with my hair in my helmet! As it is, I have problems finding a helmet large enough just for my skull!

My previous helmet was an IRH elite, but in the 5 years since I purchased the last one, they have drastically changed the fit, and I couldn’t even get the right size on without crushing my head. I tried the XL One K Defender and the shape fits, but with the padding it is kind of tight on my head. I am contacting them to see if there is a different liner…

ETA: The manufacturer responded within minutes and I can get the next size up liner which should give my head more room. Yeah!

[QUOTE=Madeline;8267278]
Except for teenage snowboarders and small skiing children with clueless parents, is there any other helmet-wearing sport where the helmet is not fitted to the skull?. . .

“Hunter Hair” is a relatively recent phenomenon. . . .Until helmets got good, that meant short hair or hairnets controlling the mane at the nape of the neck. That way your hat would stay on, more or less. With the advent of good helmets with functional harnesses, the hair went up into the oversized helmet and the new bubblehead “Only this look is correct” was born. And persists in the face of logic.[/QUOTE]

Speaking only for myself, I ride in a 7 1/4 regardless of how my hair is worn. I have medium length, medium thickness hair (thinner now with post-baby #2 shedding, probably). Even with my hair down, the next smallest size (7 1/8, in any helmet I’ve ever tried) is too small and causes an immediate headache. When I do my hair, the hair tie sits just below the back rim of the helmet and the hair only is flipped up and flattened.

For what it’s worth, Madeline, while I agree that the hunt field hair confinement etiquette and practicality from which this habit is born didn’t dictate the the hair be worn up and in, it’s hardly a new habit. I was wearing my hair over my ears and up in an International “item of apparel” helmet with a deerskin harness (and before that, a clear one) LONG before “bubbleheads” became the helmet de rigueur by rule. Until a fraction or metric decimal hat size appears between 7 1/8 and 7 1/4, I’ll continue to do what I do, “persisting in the face of logic.”

I always try helmets on with my hair down 1st then see how it fits with my hair up. Since I wear my hair up with a hair net 99.9% of the time it has to fit and be comfortable with my hair up. I have 2 helmets one for show (Samshield) and one for schooling (OneK).

My helmet fits with my hair up and down, I tried it with my hair up, and again IT DOES fit me with my hair down… I only wear my hair up for shows. But it shouldn’t really make a huge difference with your hair up or down. I do eventing so I do jump and my helmet has saved me from a concussion many times… I have an IRH helmet and it’s perfect. Hope that helped :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Madeline;8267278]
Except for teenage snowboarders and small skiing children with clueless parents, is there any other helmet-wearing sport where the helmet is not fitted to the skull?

If only George Morris, Andre Dignelli, Missy Clark and a few others came out in favor of correctly fitted helmets, the problem would be resolved forever.

“Hunter Hair” is a relatively recent phenomenon. The only tradition is that hair should be neat and contained. Until helmets got good, that meant short hair or hairnets controlling the mane at the nape of the neck. That way your hat would stay on, more or less. With the advent of good helmets with functional harnesses, the hair went up into the oversized helmet and the new bubblehead “Only this look is correct” was born. And persists in the face of logic.[/QUOTE]

Not sure what you mean by “relatively recent”, but “hunter hair” was the only way to do it in the 1970’s. I have a picture of me showing in the Jrs in the 1960’s and my hair was in a pageboy (in a net). I got out of horses for 6 years in the early 70’s, so I am not sure when the change happened, but when I came back to showing in 1977, everyone was wearing their hair up.

Mid seventies roughly corresponds with helmets with good harnesses.

I find that the people who have the biggest problem with hunter hair have the worst understanding of what we actually do to accomplish it. A low pony (nicely held by the harness of modern helmets) and then the tail is fanned out over the top of your head in a hairnet. It adds practically no thickness or bulk at all.

My helmet fits pretty much the same way (within the margin of the size) with my hair up or down. I simply can’t imagine having it down, though. I’ve worn it up since the day I started riding. Once time I tried it down and it was hot and sticky and stuck to my neck and I hated it…

If you do have hair so thick that you are sizing way up to fit it in your helmet and end up feeling that your helmet is insecure or “bobble head like,” I agree that you should either cut it or eschew tradition (because 45 years of hair up I think counts as “tradition” by this point) and wear it in a different way.

However for the vast majority of us, hunter hair is no risk. In fact, the low pony that locks into the harness at the back of my neck actually keeps my helmet even more securely on my head!

Take into account what is most comfortable for you! If you want to wear your hair up, go for it! If you want to wear your hair in a low bun in the nape of your neck, that’s fine too! If you want to do the latter, you might look for a helmet that doesn’t have the cushy harness (like a CO AYR8). You said you went to a tack shop for a fitting, which is awesome! I’m definitely more comfortable buying a helmet when I can get fitted in person and try on different brands/sizes.

[QUOTE=AmmyByNature;8268119]
I find that the people who have the biggest problem with hunter hair have the worst understanding of what we actually do to accomplish it. A low pony (nicely held by the harness of modern helmets) and then the tail is fanned out over the top of your head in a hairnet. It adds practically no thickness or bulk at all.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I have very thick hair and this would not work without changing helmet size - so if I ever do hunters, sorry in advance for those offended by my alternative hairstyle. :wink:

I would personally like to see a helmet company specifically address this (rather than just saying “however you wear your hair” - like, have they done tests with hair up on dummy heads?) but that’s mostly curiousity as to how they’d test it and what differences, if any, it made. :slight_smile:

I knew I could count on the h/j crowd for helmet advice! Thanks, everyone!

I appreciate hearing how people put up their hair. I can put my hair in a bun or do some kind of modified pony tail that loops in a hair net and fan the rest over my head. That may not change the fit. Also, the Samshield does have different inserts and apparently, my 7 1/8 head size is in the “large” shell, made to fit my head with the insert. I could get a 7 1/4 insert if necessary. I’m hoping I can check out some of the less expensive Samshields…and I hope they fit the same way. It figures that my noggin has expensive taste (I did try on oodles of helmets - I’ve always tried on oodles of helmets - I’m just very hard to fit). Alternatively, I’m hoping to come across a cheaper model.

I also have a spooky horse who is just starting to get out and about. Safety is important.

Thanks, everyone! There’s alot of info here to mull on.

Another note on Samshields (love mine!) - I have the less expensive Shadow Matte, but liked the liner style of the premium better (why are they even different?). The premium liner does not go all the way around, so there is a gap at the front of your forehead, ostensibly for better air flow. The Shadow Matte liner does not have this gap. But both liners fit in either helmet, so I just ordered a premium liner in my size and snapped it in. Love the flexibility!

I have two helmets one where I can flip all my hair under for eventing and one for hunter hair.

I like the tidy look of hair being mostly under or totally under helmet… but that’s just me. Plus, I despise my hair sticking to my sweaty neck. eww.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?468852-Helmet-fit

I have thick curly hair and need to size up if I want to put my hair under my helmet. I used to do this years ago.

I remember reading somewhere that hair should not be up in a helmet as it acts like a cushion against your head. When say your head hits the ground (lets hope that never happens), there should be minimal movement for your brain. If there is a “cushion” around it, the brain moves more back and forth than it would to a tighter fitting helmet. I can’t remember where I read that but it really does make sense to me…

I have also heard some helmet companies will not stand behind their product if hair has been put up underneath it as they are made for minimal movement. My hair is so thick that yes, if I hit my head hard enough, my helmet would move. I felt it was not safe for me to continue to do so and I love my brain.

I now fit my helmet to my head with my hair down and keep it up in a tight bun right underneath the harness with a hair net overtop. Its fairly hard to notice and I’ve never beent told that its “messy” looking or lost any ribbons for it.

I do not like the show bows as I don’t want any attention towards my hair out of the helmet. I just roll it up and put a hair net overtop.

[QUOTE=comingback;8267370]
Well I would hope the manufacturer, who has to meet the safety guidelines outlined by researchers. Here is the CEO of Charles Owen showing how to fit the helmet. It starts by saying you should try on the helmet with your hair as it will be when you ride. Go to 11:14 if you don’t want to watch the whole thing.[/QUOTE]

I just realized I never included the link to the video. Here it is if you are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVPb1r61-0M

Only in the US are people obsessed with putting their hair up under their helmets!

I always laugh when people talk about “tradition” and “hunter hair” because in the hunt field, you need to have your contained in a hair net so that it won’t get caught on anything, but it doesn’t need to be tucked into your helmet!

The biggest problem with helmets (IMO) is many people wear helmets that don’t fit either with or without their hair. I frequently see people whose helmets slide around on their head or leave a red line on their foreheads!

The second issue with helmets is that the helmet manufacturers have effectively blocked the testing that would help riders determine 1) which helmets are safer (not price dependent) and 2) whether or not hair under your helmet makes a difference in safety performance. Years ago there was a study published in Europe that showed larger helmets performed less well than smaller helmets – so if you are sizing up to accommodate your hair, you making the helmet less safe. Unsurprisingly, the helmet companies sued and were able to have the study taken down. If I search my files I may be able to find the original results.

Personally, I prefer to fit my helmet to my head and not to my hair. I think it is safer. But I do think that in general helmets are safer that they used to be and that organizations like Riders4Helmets have helped increase awareness of the importance of wearing them. Wearing a helmet a helmet that fits is critical. Whether or not to tuck your hair up under said helmet is secondary.

[QUOTE=Madeline;8267341]
Who knows more about helmet fit? The people who do the research, or the people in the shop who are trying to sell you a helmet that your trainer will approve? Researchers on helmet safety or your trainer?[/QUOTE]

On that same note, do you really think the helmet manufacturers are the “experts” we should be turning too? Sorry, but they aren’t experts, they are salespeople.

[QUOTE=kdow;8268634]
I would personally like to see a helmet company specifically address this (rather than just saying “however you wear your hair” - like, have they done tests with hair up on dummy heads?) but that’s mostly curiousity as to how they’d test it and what differences, if any, it made. :)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Bogie;8269205]
The second issue with helmets is that the helmet manufacturers have effectively blocked the testing that would help riders determine 1) which helmets are safer (not price dependent) and 2) whether or not hair under your helmet makes a difference in safety performance.[/QUOTE]

This. Tests need to be done before ANYONE can really say one way or another.

Years ago there was a study published in Europe that showed larger helmets performed less well than smaller helmets – so if you are sizing up to accommodate your hair, you making the helmet less safe. Unsurprisingly, the helmet companies sued and were able to have the study taken down.

I would imagine if they were able to get the study taken down, I imagine it was flawed in some way. For instance, even in your summary, there seems to be a flaw. Are larger helmets less safe meaning people with large heads are SOL when compared to people with smaller heads or is it if a smaller headed person is wearing a helmet that is too big (moves around, etc)? Should those of us with really thick hair that have to wear a larger helmet than a “normal” person make sure we have good wills in place?

Only if by “roughly corresponds” you mean over a decade later. I started riding in late 70s with a chin strap. late 80s, I was wearing a chin strap for schooling and a deerskin harness for showing.

1984: http://41.media.tumblr.com/5757e86ce917c2e71a767d1c1a06b2f1/tumblr_nb8z0pLTnf1tnxr17o1_500.jpg (tons more if you would like to see them. ;)Peter Wylde, Andre Dignelli, etc)

Here is the press release that announced the study:

12 June, 2003

The equestrian trade and sporting disciplines have hit out at the results of the Mark Davies Injured Riders’ Fund’s (MDIRF) controversial Equestrian New Hat Assessment Programme (ENHAP), which has criticised many of the hats currently on the market.

Fifty-five helmets were subjected to an initial side impact test, and of these, only 15 were considered to offer sufficient protection to go for further testing. Star ratings were then awarded depending on the level of protection offered.

The hats were divided into four categories: traditional velvet-covered designs; jockey skulls; lightweight - of the type popular with endurance riders - and modern, such as GPA show jumping hats.

Just one traditional hat, the Troxel Airwear Grand Prix Gold II, was awarded a two-star rating, while jockey skulls fared better: the Dublin NZ skull, Gatehouse Airflow and Charles Owen Competitor were all awarded three stars (the highest rating).

However, one skullcap failed the initial test and two others were considered to merit only a two-star rating.

All but one of the lightweight hats tested were awarded the top rating, while of the modern hats, only the Collins LPC-100 passed the initial test.

All the hats included in the tests have already been certified bythe British Standards Institute (BSI) or the European equivalent to (BS) EN 1384 and/or PAS 015 or to the American standard ASTM F1163 which includes penetration, shock absorption, harness strength and harness stability tests.

The British Equestrian Trade Association (BETA), which represents British hat manufacturers and importers, has dismissed the ENHAP results as “at best meaningless and at worst [likely to] cause greater rider confusion”.

BETA was also highly critical of the way the results were presented in a weekend edition of a national newspaper, which claimed that most riding hats “fail to protect” their wearers.

Dr Michael Whitlock, medical advisor to the European committee for sports protective equipment, says: “Since the European standard was introduced, research has shown that the hats have reduced the number and severity of head injuries. They work very well and it is worrying that the inference of the star system is that they don’t.”

However, Jane Davies, founder of the Mark Davies Injured Riders’ Fund, is convinced that the ENHAP results are a true reflection of the situation.

“These tests are truly independent. The information about which hats are safest is there, andif riders choose not to see it then that is up to them. It is now up to the governing bodies of equestrian sport to take this information on board and act to protect their members,” she says.

Here is the response from the helmet industry:

BETA Voices Concern Over Hat Research

The British Equestrian Trade Association (BETA) has hit out following a story in a national newspaper at the weekend that claims most riding hats ‘fail to protect’ their riders. This is simply not true.

The implication of by ENHAP (Equestrian New Helmet Assessment Programme) have been strongly refuted by BETA and leading riding hat manufacturers who feel the story will cause unnecessary fear and uncertainty over safety issues in the minds of the thousands of people who ride in the UK.

At all times, BETA encourages tests and trials aimed at making riding safer for all, but is seriously concerned about the claims and implications of the ENHAP results which are, at best, meaningless and, at worst, will cause greater rider confusion.

Despite numerous attempts to obtain representation on the working party that established the testing protocols, BETA as a representative of both the manufacturing and retail trade, was excluded. Indeed, the working party did not even attempt to seek any type of advice from manufacturers, who between them, have over 156 years of equestrian safety heritage. Manufacturers have also invested a considerable amount of money ensuring rider safety is to the highest of British standards through the BSI kitemark. The kitemark guarantees that hats have been produced to the stringent standards through a series of independent tests (this means, on average, one riding hat is tested every single working day of the year).

BETA Chief Executive and Secretary Claire Williams said: "The article that appeared has factual inaccuracies and there is the danger that it could cause unnecessary concern amongst riders and parents.

“Manufacturers already invest thousands of pounds per annum in the development of new and safer hats, including new methods to test their safety. These tests are carried out to the highest of standards and involvement in the development of ENHAP would have opened the working party up to many years of experience. Working together, we could have achieved a more rounded and accurate programme.”

A number of concerns have been raised by manufacturers directly in regard to ENHAP.

“We still do not feel that Star ratings are the best way of indicating the safety of a hat,” continues Ms Williams. " We are concerned that if decisions are based solely on these ratings, then the standard that the hat meets or the purpose for which it was intended may become secondary factors, creating the potential for a higher incidence of accidents."

According to Dr Michael Whitlock, Consultant in Accident and Emergency and Medical Adviser to CEN for Protective Sports Equipment, it is meaningless to say that a 3-star rating is better than a 1-star rating because it depends on the standard to which the hat is made, the accident that could occur and whether or not the hat fits correctly.

Research undertaken by Dr Whitlock reveals that the incidence of head injuries has decreased dramatically since 1995. This is a direct result of the introduction of standards like EN1384 and PAS 15 which replaced the existing standards. Continued education amongst riders to ensure that they are wearing properly fitted hats designed to the recognised standards, is therefore imperative.

BETA has also expressed concern on a number of other points with regard to the testing.

" The ENHAP research was undertaken without a penetration test which is a feature of both the EN1384 and PAS 15. However, a crush test, which is still in development and is as yet unproven, was included although we understand that the results were withdrawn in the final stages.

" All of the hats tested as part of the ENHAP research are approved to the recognised European or American standards.

" Of the 55 hats tested for side impact, only 15 then underwent a full testing through all eight controlled tests. These 15 are then compared with the other 40 on the same footing. Some of these forty may therefore have scored better had they been tested using some of the other parameters.

" The ENHAP testing is on three sizes only in the final round, rather than a full range and is a one-off field trial process. This is compared with the Kitemark procedure whereby all hats are tested on an ongoing basis and on a wider range of sizes to guarantee that they are completely up to the British safety standards.

" The variability of these results emphases the importance of constant testing. This is highlighted by the fact that two of the helmets tested which are identical in manufacture and different only in label have achieved different star ratings.

Concludes Ms Williams: "BETA is committed to supporting all initiatives which are aimed at improving safety standards but the association is genuinely concerned that the ENHAP findings are confusing and may be misunderstood. The riding hats in the research have been subjected to tests that they were not designed to meet and the overall picture which has emerged from the testing does not give a true picture of the standards or current situation.

"The aim, at all times, should be to encourage riders to keep improving their riding hats, and to encourage them to purchase new, up-to-date models which have achieved the highest of standards throughout testing and research. Through years of experience, we know that if riders are confused about safety, they are less likely to change their hat. As an industry, we recommend that hats are changed on a three to five year basis, unless they have been involved in an accident, in which case they should be changed immediately. There are so many factors that can influence a correctly fitting hat - a simple change in hair style, a drop on the floor or natural head growth can all alter the correct fit of a hat.

“Ultimately we are concerned that the ENHAP results will make purchasing more of a minefield for consumers and the retailers trying to provide appropriate advice. As a result of this, we will find that riders will take the easy option and opt to continue using their current model, rather than considering what is the best option for their own safety.”

I wrote about that study back in 2009 . . . the study was conducted in 2003. Haven’t found the data yet, but here’s my blog article:

[URL=“http://equineink.com/2009/11/04/which-equestrian-helmets-are-the-safest/”]http://equineink.com/2009/11/04/which-equestrian-helmets-are-the-safest/

If I were you I would poll the eventers, who (generally speaking:))are more concerned with safety than fashion. I always fit my helmet with my hair down and put my hair in a low bun to ride. Your helmet sans hair is going to be more stable than with.

Are eventers also scientists that have done the studies? "cause those eventers I would talk too. Not caring what one looks like doesn’t make you a safety scion.

I always fit my helmet with my hair down and put my hair in a low bun to ride. Your helmet sans hair is going to be more stable than with.

My helmet is VERY stable with my hair in it. It doesn’t move. If hair made such a huge difference in stability, we should all shave our heads.