Hairnets and head health

[Mistysmom]

[QUOTE=Madeline;8626485]
All it would take to make correctly fitted helmets the norm would be for half a dozen or so uber BNT’s ( Morris, Clark, Dignelli, Madden, Torano, KAppler, etc.) to have a session with this neurologist. Complete with anatomic drawings, slides and video. A few hours of serious education. Then for those trainers to make a public statement that their students will not be wearing oversized helmets full of hair. And that they would not penalize competitors with hair neatly contained outside their helmets and would really appreciate other judges educating themselves about head injuries and helmet fit, and similarly not penalizing non-hunter-hair.

COTH would publicize this, USEF would pull together seminars for trainers, judges, parents and riders at different high profile horse shows. If the impetus for change came from that top group of very influential trainers, and the judges listened to them, the problem would be a non-problem in a few months.[/QUOTE]

The information is out there and trainers know that hair inside the helmet is not a show rule. It is the trainers who perpetuate the style of the hair up in the helmet and NOT the USEF or judges. Parents and riders often have no idea about this I agree that publicizing/advertising would be very helpful to bring awareness to the riders and parents (trainers already know about this :-). Riders really should be educated and make their own choice on how they want to wear their hair especially if they know they will NOT be penalized in the show ring for doing so.

[longtimelurker]

[QUOTE=cyberbay;8626680]
It’s been around for a long time, this-hair-tucked-up-in-the- helmet-makes-the-helmet-fit-not-so-safe.

But, wasn’t sure here. Is the OP saying that hairnets even when used with short hair make helmets fit badly as well, or just long hair draped over the top of the head makes helmets fit badly? I sure hope not, as the hairnet really does keep the annoying wisps out of the way.

I did have to laugh, seeing the post from HLMom about the. uh, attractiveness of hunter hair. This would be a true statement…[/QUOTE]

As far as I know, the neurologist here only looked at a helmet/hairnet combo with long hair flipped up under the helmet. Not sure about short hair, although it seems logical that they’d make a much less dramatic difference in fit.

I personally am just not ready to take the plunge and chop my hair off – not a good look for me!

[molly8it]

DH called it “lunch lady” hair. I am a fan of the low bun, and tucked that inside my hairnet. But I like “old school” looks. Cuz I’m old.

But then I went and cut all my hair off, so problem solved. Also no hair over the ears, which for some reason I just cannot stand.

[UnlacedDreams]

I really hope a good article comes out on this. I’m in eventing rather than h/j, but I still see a lot of my friends putting their long hair up inside their helmet. As someone who has neurological damage from a fall (with a proper helmet), I always worry about them. It’s a fashion style that is just plain dangerous.

[Bogie]

I wish it were that easy. The Helmets4Horses campaign has been great. And we’ve had some really unfortunate and scary accidents that were publicized, like what happened to Courtney King. People STILL don’t wear helmets, let alone helmets that fit correctly.

I wear a helmet every.single.time. I can’t imagine not wearing my helmet. I wear a helmet when I’m taking a slow hack in the woods.

People have a gazillion reasons why they think they don’t need to wear helmets and every time you see a trainer or “important” rider photographed riding without a helmet it reinforces to all the people that admire them that “good” riders don’t “need” helmets.

The “hunter hair” tradition (which, I agree, looks weird to anyone outside hunter land) is so entrenched that I know people who use hairnets every time they ride because it feels weird to them NOT to pile their hair up on their heads!

[QUOTE=Madeline;8626485]
All it would take to make correctly fitted helmets the norm would be for half a dozen or so uber BNT’s ( Morris, Clark, Dignelli, Madden, Torano, KAppler, etc.) to have a session with this neurologist. Complete with anatomic drawings, slides and video. A few hours of serious education. Then for those trainers to make a public statement that their students will not be wearing oversized helmets full of hair. And that they would not penalize competitors with hair neatly contained outside their helmets and would really appreciate other judges educating themselves about head injuries and helmet fit, and similarly not penalizing non-hunter-hair.

COTH would publicize this, USEF would pull together seminars for trainers, judges, parents and riders at different high profile horse shows. If the impetus for change came from that top group of very influential trainers, and the judges listened to them, the problem would be a non-problem in a few months.[/QUOTE]

[Synthesis]

[QUOTE=Mistysmom;8626686]
<snip>. Riders really should be educated and make their own choice on how they want to wear their hair especially if they know they will NOT be penalized in the show ring for doing so.[/QUOTE]

But but but if riders start making decisions about how they wear their hair, where will it stop? Next they will want to choose their brand of helmet, gloves and horrors saddle!?!?!?!? :lol::winkgrin:

[GoodTimes]

[QUOTE=Synthesis;8627134]
But but but if riders start making decisions about how they wear their hair, where will it stop? Next they will want to choose their brand of helmet, gloves and horrors saddle!?!?!?!? :lol::winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

In my 20 years of showing hunters on the A’s I’ve never had a trainer tell me what to wear or buy (including horses). Suggestions if I asked then sure. And definitely not a saddle or helmet, two items that absolutely need to fit properly.

I’ve always had shoulder length thin hair, that really doesn’t change the way my helmet fits with hunter hair. It’s snug enough that even if I forget a hair elastic or hairnet nothing moves. If I had super long or thick hair then yes I would reconsider how I wear it with regards to my helmet.

[173north]

I deal with this every day working at a tack shop. There’s plenty of people with fine enough hair that their helmet honestly fits the same with their hair up or their hair down. I don’t think that significantly compromises the fit or safety.

But I also see lots of women and girls piling tons of long, thick hair under their helmet - to the point where I’ve had people come in with their hearts set on a certain helmet brand, and then not be able to get the biggest size they make on over their hair. If your helmet is sitting on top of so much hair that you have to go up two or three sizes, that’s not at all safe.

I also often see our European and South American customers watching in disbelief as the Americans flip upside down to do their hair, and then smush their helmet on from back to front. If you’re not used to it, it seems VERY odd.

I agree that the BNTs need to get on board for this to happen. Send all their clients to Indoors with their hair in neat buns, and suddenly buns are the hot new trend! This is why equestrian companies put so much money and effort into sponsorships - because the rank and file mimic whatever the BNTs and BNRs are doing, for better or for worse. A well-funded public campaign about proper helmet fit is a great idea, but it needs to be accompanied by the Tori Colvins of the industry showing up to big classes with their hair down for change to occur.

[btswass]

[QUOTE=MontysGal;8626633]
As someone who has gotten a concussion while riding with a correctly fitted helmet with hair out (was just schooling around), I am a big fan of fit over fashion, and I do show the hunters.

This is exactly what I do. No one has ever commented:[/QUOTE]

Can we please talk about how helmets are, in general, inadequate. I have heard too many horror stories of people dying, getting brain damage, and concussions from helmets currently on the market. This is not acceptable! We all think it won’t happen to us. But I’ve been that person too many times to take my health and life for granted. And as a mechanical engineer I’m working on developing, hopefully, a much safer helmet. Its time we all start taking head health more seriously in the riding world. From wearing helmets, to proper fitting helmets, to safer helmets. I’m glad people are discussing this and we’re headed in the right direction.

[IPEsq]

Am I the only one who would be very uncomfortable jumping with a low bun? A pile of hair there would be likely to push the helmet forward and down when in jumping position if my eyes are anywhere near up. I wear a bike helmet a fair amount of time too and will put my hair in a bun or knot on hot days to get it off of my neck, and if I am not careful about the position of it, it can push against my helmet/harness when I’m, say, using the drop bars on my road bike, if I want to have my eyes ahead and on the road. And I have pretty fine, not super long hair. I can see it being a non-issue for dressage.

Just me?

[Bristol_Bay]

Samshield makes their helmets with a dressage strap to accommodate a bun.

http://www.samshield.com/en/new-dressage-strap/

I don’t know if other manufacturers make them as well, but they should.

[yellowbritches]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8627514]
Am I the only one who would be very uncomfortable jumping with a low bun? A pile of hair there would be likely to push the helmet forward and down when in jumping position if my eyes are anywhere near up. I wear a bike helmet a fair amount of time too and will put my hair in a bun or knot on hot days to get it off of my neck, and if I am not careful about the position of it, it can push against my helmet/harness when I’m, say, using the drop bars on my road bike, if I want to have my eyes ahead and on the road. And I have pretty fine, not super long hair. I can see it being a non-issue for dressage.

Just me?[/QUOTE]
When I did it, and I had A LOT of hair, it was rarely an issue. If my hair got so long that my bun started to push at my helmet, it meant is was time for a trim. The only time it was a big issue was when I added an air vest to my xc apparel. My standard best underneath the air vest with my bun did not work. Borrowed someone’s vest for that day, and replaced mine when I got the chance. Once I had a new vest, it was no longer an issue.

[yellowbritches]

PS- I wear Charles Owens with harnesses that adjust in the back, not solid ones, and I do think that helps.

[touchstone]

Is there any evidence that the hair causes a problem? I am having difficulty understanding how hair would affect the mechanics of how a helmet protects your head from collisions. (I am open to being wrong. I am just interested in an explanation.)

[GoodTimes]

[QUOTE=touchstone-;8627695]
Is there any evidence that the hair causes a problem? I am having difficulty understanding how hair would affect the mechanics of how a helmet protects your head from collisions. (I am open to being wrong. I am just interested in an explanation.)[/QUOTE]

The theory is that the helmet is designed to be right against the skull so that the padding immediately absorbs some of the impact so the deceleration of the brain within the skull isn’t so abrupt. The question is whether or not extra hair in the helmet creates a space wherein the the helmet and the skull wouldn’t act as one. I don’t recall ever seeing a statement or a study confirming or disproving there theories.

Keep in mind that hunters and equestrians aren’t the only ones who wear helmets. There are sports out there where balaclavas, fire retardant clothing, etc. is regularly worn under the helmet. Whether those practices have been proven safe? I don’t know.

[fourmares]

I’ve talked to the rep from Charles Owen and the rep for Samshield. Neither one belinvestment hair up or down while change the effective-Ness of the helmet assuming the helmet fits correctly with the hair styled the way the rider prefers

[Mistysmom]

That’s interesting… I have spoken with Charles Owen, Samshield and GPA and each told me they do not warrant hair worn inside the helmet in fact, they all explained that it could impede one’s safety due to the small spaces the hair will create. The helmet was designed and safety tested to fit directly over the head without any gaps.

[Madeline]

[QUOTE=fourmares;8628167]
I’ve talked to the rep from Charles Owen and the rep for Samshield. Neither one belinvestment hair up or down while change the effective-Ness of the helmet assuming the helmet fits correctly with the hair styled the way the rider prefers[/QUOTE]

Who are you going to listen to? A helmet rep whose only interest is in selling high end helmets to people who are seeking the approval of their coaches for whom “the look” is all, or a neurologist who knows how head injuries work?

Name another helmet-wearing sport where the fit of the helmet is compromised by the hair in the name of tradition/fashion. Skiing? Lacrosse? football? Bicycling? Roller derby? Motorcycling? Nope. Nope. Nope. (Exceptions for stupidity: People who have no understanding of head injuries do buy their children giant helmets for skiing with room for hats underneath. Teenage male snowboarders do this too, so that they look cool with their helmets sitting up on the backs of their heads…)

[trubandloki]

I would think that part of the issue with hair up is not so much that there is hair up there but that the hair is not an even layer. There are bumps of hair that make impact points and gaps. The hair globs change the shape of the head and the fit of the helmet.

I am one of those people with very thick hair that when I showed was very long (past the top of my pants). I could not buy a helmet large enough for my head and my hair even if I wanted to.
I would braid my hair into several smaller diameter braids and put it down the back of my coat. Not the typical hunter hair look but it was the best solution I could come up with.

[Bogie]

Exactly.

[QUOTE=Madeline;8628228]
Who are you going to listen to? A helmet rep whose only interest is in selling high end helmets to people who are seeking the approval of their coaches for whom “the look” is all, or a neurologist who knows how head injuries work?

Name another helmet-wearing sport where the fit of the helmet is compromised by the hair in the name of tradition/fashion. Skiing? Lacrosse? football? Bicycling? Roller derby? Motorcycling? Nope. Nope. Nope. (Exceptions for stupidity: People who have no understanding of head injuries do buy their children giant helmets for skiing with room for hats underneath. Teenage male snowboarders do this too, so that they look cool with their helmets sitting up on the backs of their heads…)[/QUOTE]