Half Lease Contract - red flags or normal stuff?

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

It sounds to me, based on the replies, that is may be someone who is very ambivalent about leasing (and may be worried about the soundness of her horse) and is bending over backwards to protect herself, expecting the worst. However, given it’s an on-property half-lease, some of this sounds a little bit paranoid. I’d be more sympathetic to the owner if this was off-property and a full lease.

I leased horses for many years, and if there isn’t trust between the leaser, person leasing, and also the trainer(s) involved, it will not end well. (I know some people who lease horse do horrible things, so please don’t think I’m criticizing all owners). But it doesn’t sound like the owner is going into this with a sense of trust that you will do right by her horse and her tack. It’s fine to ask for $$$ regarding vet expenses in a contract, but there should be transparency about a ballpark figure about what the horse has cost in the past re: vet care. The image you’ve painted is someone who is looking for you to do something wrong, which feels awful.

What are stipulations in the contract about how often/where/when/ what you can do with the horse?

[Bogie]

@mika0116

I also paid for a full vetting to prove pre-existing conditions that were then documented in the lease

This is excellent advice. No matter what horse you part lease.

As for the conditions, I wouldn’t sign the lease as is, but the most troubling part is the owner not wanting to answer basic questions. Obviously, they can ask for whatever terms they want, but you also have the option to pass. Depending on whether or not you feel you can work with the owner I would suggest modifications.

[Rel6]

@trubandloki

I have no problem with someone having to pay out a six month lease on an unsound horse. I can see how that does not feel good, I can see both sides of it. The horse owner is ending up with an unsound horse too.

I don’t usually disagree, but I do have a problem when its this one sided. Under these terms, the owner can get out of the lease at any point for any reason without penalty, but leaser is stuck paying out 90 days on a lame horse even if the other person riding the horse (owner?) crashes it.

[trubandloki]

@Rel6

Under these terms, the owner can get out of the lease at any point for any reason without penalty, but leaser is stuck paying out 90 days on a lame horse even if the other person riding the horse (owner?) crashes it.

Very valid point.

I guess it is impossible to write a lease with all the various variables covered.

I just figure with a short term lease (six months or under) the owner is taking more risks than the rider because they are only on the hook financially for such a short time.

[sixteenhands]

How many injections does the horse need in a six month half lease.

[js]

For a 6 month lease I would pass. There is a very good possibility you will get stuck with some pricy vet bills like for recurring hock injections (around here that’s $1000+), so figure possibly $500 out of your pocket) etc. I wonder if the owner is holding off on the injections till after leasing so someone else will help with the vet bill. Too many red flag warnings that I would not take on. Saddle damage for a saddle that is already damaged is one of many.

[fivestrideline]

Some of these (like the lack of pro-rate) don’t bother me. But the attitude of the owner does, specifically. Personally I’d walk away.

I think you’re going to be on the hook for some expensive vet visits that have been put off (what if she decides to finally inject every leg joint?), and you might be replacing her saddle. Do massage and PEMF/acupuncture/chiro count as maintenance? How often will you be splitting that bill?

If you really want this lease, at the VERY LEAST I would find out what the vet costs are expected to be. Ask what vet they use and for a list of expected “maintenance”, and then go call that vet and ask for a ballpark figure. Also ask for the bodywork schedule, get that in writing. Take pictures of the saddle BEFORE you sit on the horse, and file them away. I’d also see if you can renegotiate the lease-break policy to 60 days total. Not ideal for you as the rider, but 90 days is HALF your lease term and that seems excessive.

I’d still run. These are mostly full lease, full year terms on a 6 month half lease. Is there another rider? More? Too much grey for me. I’d move on.

[ParadoxFarm]

I agree with others that the owner’s attitude and not being forthcoming with at least vet estimates could be a warning. What if this owner unilaterally decides on some vet procedure that may not be what she would normally due simply because she has a 50% discount because she knows you are paying half? I’m not saying she would take advantage of you, but the contract states that she basically can. You should have some input if you’re paying half of the bill. That makes me nervous. Yet I do understand an owner wanting to protect the horse.

[js]

For what you will be spending on a half lease for 6 months with added costs, is there a lesson program with school horses where you could spend that money on just lessons, seems you’d be getting far more for your money.

[trubandloki]

The OP said that cost included lessons.

[MissMillyMolly]

Just based on her answers to your questions I would walk away. Even if you figure out all the vet expenses, you will still be dealing with this person for six months. It’s going to drive you nuts, and diminish the enjoyment you have with the horse, if the owner is difficult and/or hovering over you every time you try to do anything with the horse. To work well half leases require pretty clear communication from both parties, this person has already told you she can’t handle that. Not worth it in my book.

[findeight]

Is this person a private, Ammy owner or are they an equine professional of some sort? And the horse will be staying at the same place under the CCandC of the same trainer?

Off hand, the owner seems controlling however don’t see but one real big red flag. Under these terms, OP could end up paying half of who knows how many postponed vet procedures. Owner can image via x ray, MRI or ultra sound and inject or otherwise treat every joint in horses body and run all the other tests and labwork she wants whenever she wants. And OP is paying half of whatever insurance does not cover. I would not sign for that.

Other sticking point for me is that already damaged saddle used by others. Hence my question about owner being ammy or Pro.

Most full or part leases can result in leaser paying for a full term with an unrideable horse. That is something for both sides to discuss. Half the lease here is actually not that unusual and much better then the whole 6 months.

ETA…for whoever asked if just more lessons on a lesson horse? In most areas, good trainers do not have schoolies for anything over 2’6”, if that. You must lease to advance. This kind of sounds like its for over 2’6”. If OP wants to stay in the very low range, perhaps a schoolie can be found.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Many places no longer have school horses at all, except one or two semi-retired horses who might to a walk-trot crossrails lesson for people truly just getting an intro to the barn!

FWIW, all of the half leases I had were paid on a month-to-month basis, with 30 days termination notice. So if the horse was unrideable, I’d pay the month, but by the end of the month I could just decide not to continue (fortunately, that never happened). (I will note that when the horses I leased weren’t rideable, I still came out on my days to administer medications, walk the horse, groom, and so forth, which IMHO is also part of the deal.) I think for such a short lease, personally, agreeing to a monthly fee beforehand per month would be reasonable to request (even a generous fee, taking into account the experience and costs of the horse).

[js]

Yes, but for what she would be saving by not taking the lease she could spend that money on more lessons and probably get more riding done.

[VolteSomeday]

Contract person here. While I’m not well versed in what constitutes red flag half lease terms, my advice to anyone signing a contract is: “There is no contract iron clad enough to make it pleasant to deal with an unreasonable person for the duration of said contract.” YMMV.

[rockymouse]

Don’t enter into this lease.

“They cost whatever the vet charges…”

“This is a VERY generous lease. All the lease contracts I’ve seen wouldn’t let you out at all.”

No ma’am. These are reasonable questions you’ve asked. They are not reasonable answers.

[Casey09]

What are your other options? This seems like a HUGE financial expenditure, honestly. I understand that most barns don’t have lesson horses and you’re probably in a high cost area, but keeping this horse going with injections, etc. seems like you could be spending a huge amount of money with no quick easy out should the horse go unsound. Who decided what the horse “needs”? Im guessing the owner does. You have 0 input, but your checkbook would be open to half of whatever.
It seems like a bad deal to me.

[Baybear]

Im assuming this is an in barn 1/2 lease? If so I think the terms are pretty excessive. Most people I know that do an inbarn lease just charge a flat fee, but may add a few things in regards to injury and tack. For example when I did an inbarn lease with a Jr. rider - if he required special shoes (stud holes) that would be her sole expense, and if he was injured due to negligence and required a vet that would be their expense, same with damaged tack - repaired or replaced at their cost. I certainly wouldn’t hold someone to a lease if my horse was injured or lame for an extended period of time. Now an off-site lease is a different thing so there would be more caveats in that agreement. I would not agree to those terms

[Vyce]

As someone who leases, I’d be running away from that contract. I’m not sure if I’d even want to try and negotiate with the owner. Lots of great advice already given. I know leases can vary depending upon people and circumstances. I can only speak from my own experience. I’ve leased 3 barn horses for short terms. They were full leases. No showing or taking the horse off site. Lessons not included. If the horse got injured I was responsible for the vet bills. Any damage to tack, same thing. I paid a flat upfront fee which amounted to paying full board for each month of the lease. For the last few years I’ve had a partial lease with a private owner who has several horses. I pay her a flat monthly fee and some manual labor. Lessons not included though sometimes I get to ride her horse in a lesson. Any damage to horse or tack while I’m riding or handling Dobbin= the responsibility for the bills is on me. I don’t show or compete, I just trail ride. I’ve heard leases for showing or horses skilled in disciplines such as dressage or jumpers can have more costs associated with them? The part of this lease that would have me running is how open-ended a lot of the contract terms are. Seems like they could be a big old money-pit trap. But others have already explained that better.
Best of luck OP and I hope you could find a good lease that is fair to both parties! This one seems very one sided.

[NC001]

At the very least,t here needs to be a stated cap on how much $$ you would spend on vet bills. 6 months is so short she could try to fit in every vet requirement for the year during your lease so you pay for half of it all. She could inject every joint in the horses body.