Half pass

[merrygoround]

@alibi_18

Obviously it was, being a schoolmaster and instructions.

Afterward, it’s important for students to truly understand the subtleties between « similar » movements and their mechanic.

I do think that is what instructors are there to do. Even if we have to explain ad infinitum.

[MyssMyst]

@alibi_18

Afterward, it’s important for students to truly understand the subtleties between « similar » movements and their mechanic.

I think this is where dressage gets really fascinating. I’m very fortunate to have a trainer who loves to experiment in my lessons. If I read something online, or see something in a clinic, I can come back to her every single time and say “I saw this schooled this way, or they explained this movement that way” and she’ll incorporate it into our next lesson. Usually starting with how she’s taught me how to ride the movement, then have me try it the “new” way, and then we really talk about what I’m feeling in the movement and how it compares to what she’s seeing, and what applications it has for me in working with my individual horse.

We actually did that a LOT with half pass this spring, using the change bend in a leg yield, starting in shoulder in and pushing it off the wall, as well as HI on the diagonal. Talking about what each part of the horse is doing in each variation, how I end up using my aids, where my weight is, is my horse “cheating” with any part of his body, or more engaged… Riding the various variations has taught me more about riding one movement than I thought possible. It does so much to make you think about what’s really happening.

[J-Lu]

@sascha

I’m pretty sure you are very confused between what a movement actually is and how different people choose to teach it.

Think of the shoulder in - if you’ve ever been told to use your outside leg in SI as like you would for half pass, you will know that it is a mental game to get you to increase the bend and not that SI is actually half pass.

It is exactly the same with half pass - you get a certain result by riding/thinking about it in a certain way, but that doesn’t change the fact that mechanically it is exactly the same as travers, just on a different line.

Right. I am very confused about what a movement is.

[J-Lu]

@alibi_18

Are you and The Sandiest shoes the same person? I wasn’t addressing your problem.

My comments are simplistic because it’s not complex to fix a movement with the help of the other movements.

Oh brother.

[J-Lu]

@sascha

Perhaps they are illiterate?

“Half-Pass
Definition
“Half-pass. This movement is a variation of travers, executed on the diagonal instead of along the wall. leg.”” [USEF Rule Book DR111]

Yes, the judges I worked with were illiterate at the S and I levels. This is why I stopped posting on the Dressage forum.

[sascha]

@J-Lu

Yes, the judges I worked with were illiterate at the S and I levels. This is why I stopped posting on the Dressage forum.

Seriously, you argue with the rule book and yet say you stopped posting because people who call you on your rather basic misunderstandings are meanies? Did I get that right?

The point is that what the movement actually is is very, very clearly defined as travers on the diagonal. The way it is taught does not always make use of the definition. Perfecting/tweaking it may require a different way of looking at it. But none of that changes what it actually is.

[sascha]

@alibi_18

Are you and The Sandiest shoes the same person? I wasn’t addressing your problem.

My comments are simplistic because it’s not complex to fix a movement with the help of the other movements.

Nah, probably slc reincarnated. I remember having this exact same argument with her about HP years and years ago. She could not wrap her head around the actual definitions even when thrown at her in quotation form from some of her supposed favourite master’s books.

[alibi_18]

@J-Lu

Yes, the judges I worked with were illiterate at the S and I levels. This is why I stopped posting on the Dressage forum.

Maybe you didn’t fully understood their explanations or you didn’t asked the right question, or they were addressing something else?

Also, note that the travers and half pass definitions have been reworded over the past … quarter-century?
The degree of angle have changed.

Since you are referring to judges with « I » instead of 4*, maybe they were very older judges and weren’t referencing the exact same thing? or the same way?

Not all judges are created equal - Like you said earlier, some bad things were being rewarded at Rusty’s time, so your judges might have been wrong as well.

ETA: Judges do make mistake, they can be wrong, give shitty explanations and be totally out of line.
I scribe a lot for 4 and 5* judges, recently with one who gave Totilas the highest score of 80, on one of his last appearance, despite being lame in the ring.
Yet, I couldn’t find a thing to say about his judging while I was with him. His comments and explanations were interesting, fair and clear.