Hand position in Dressage

[Rosewatt]

Yes, unfortunately. The owner isn’t really riding much either. There is a real push for progress . I was hoping with this dressage coach, I could find some leeway. I hadn’t done a clinic with her in years and was hoping that maybe her methods would work for the horse I’m riding. I think we had some really good moments, but I also think the low hands and more rein than I normally use encouraged the horse to give into rein pressure, which is kind of a bummer given I was having the horse move up into the bit not too long ago. I am not sure how to convey this to the owner though because I think she really wants to work with this coach.

[Scribbler]

@Rosewatt

Yes, unfortunately. The owner isn’t really riding much either because she has fears about how big and green this horse is. There is a real push for progress I’ve found that I tend to take a step back from because of how young this horse is; however, the other rider involved who is coaching the owner through her fears is not taking the same step back and is not familiar with dressage nor this horse’s btb tendencies. So I was hoping at least with this dressage coach, I could find some leeway. I hadn’t done a clinic with her in years and was hoping that maybe her methods would work for him. Good and Bad. I think we had some really good moments, but I also think the low hands and more rein than I normally use confirmed in this horse’s mind that rein= curl. I had a really difficult time getting her to put weight in the rein today, which is kind of frustrating given I was having the horse move up into the bit not too long ago. This horse was broken in western and unfortunately has those tendencies to dip behind contact + is super flexible to begin with. I’m not too convinced this is the method for this horse since I feel it confirmed in her head to dip behind contact generally. I can get her to engage more and lift up to the bit in moments, but I’m not sure how useful that is when she just wants to curl the rest of the time Feels like we may have taken several steps back. I am not sure how to convey this to the owner though because I think she really wants to work with this coach.

At a certain point you need to consider if there are too many cooks in the kitchen and if you can continue being useful in this particular ride.

[Willesdon]

You say you need eyes on the ground - maybe ask for mirrors in the school if there are none. Cheaper and more effective than a trainer confusing you and the horse!!

[Rosewatt]

I absolutely agree and have kind of beat around the bush about this topic when speaking with the owner, but ultimately it is her choice in the matter and I want to respect that. The best I can do is just be honest about what I’m seeing/experiencing on my end. Occasionally, it’s just a matter of frustration for me because I always want to do what is best for the horse. I know that always differs based on someone’s experiences though.

But anyways, a little off topic. I’ll have to have a conversation with the owner on this coach and my thoughts on it. She can make the decision based on that. I think the other trainer is coming back soon anyways and we could see if that is a better fit before committing to any one trainer.

[Dee-Vee]

@outerbanks77

@merrygoround

Regarding the height of hands, I’ve always felt that there should be a straight line from the elbow to the bit. As long as the hands have lightly, not tightly,but closed fingers, with thumbs up, and softly curving wrists, along with following elbows’ the height will sort itself out.

Yes, this. There should be a straight line and the “give” to the bit should be coming from the elbow, not the hand. I am trying to come up with an example of someone riding with low hands and still having a giving elbow and not riding with a backward hand. I am not seeing it. The only time I go low hands is when I’m encouraging the horse to stretch FDO, or specifically choosing to ride a little deeper in the warmup. Then it makes sense for the hands to lower to keep the line from the elbow to the bit. However, the goal each ride is to then come back up and shorten the reins.

My thought is if you want your horse to be moving uphill and forward to the contact, riding them with a low, backward-taking contact is not going to get you there. The lower hand acts more on the bars, and the horse is not likely to respond to that with the lively, very forward-thinking contact that you want (like a fish tugging on a line).

^^ This. I have found that the sweet spot is riding from the elbows. The hands will then fall into place.

[TwiSedai]

So, riding a low-necked quarter horse, I COULD see being told the ride with lower hands if the horse has a lower neck. If my hands get high, the hand-to-bit line is broken and my downhill, low necked horse starts bracing. She’s also a very crooked wiggle worm that wants to hang on the left rein and avoid contact on the right if she can get away with it, so I have to go a bit wide in the warm up until I get her more forward and straighter. So I’d say, in my Training Level expert opinion (), that it can have its uses.

Ultimately though, it’s whether it helps the horse. As long as you are riding the hind end forward into the contact and there’s no pulling back or holding, I’d assume your hands should pretty much be as high as your horse needs them to be for their level of training. If the horse you are riding curls, I wonder if the coach is trying to give you something to work with while it figures consistent contact out. I can see high hands on a western-trained horse causing more curling, where lower, wider hands can give them a sort of funnel to learn to move into where the contact isn’t being inadvertently dropped when they curl (which I can see reinforcing the curling). Not talking like, Art2Ride low wide hands though where their hands are basically at their knees. I also know some western horses that are taught raised hand = drop the head and give to the bit, which can lead to curling.

[atr]

Do you think sometimes we overthink things?

[Rosewatt]

That’s actually a really good point and I’m not really sure why I hadn’t fully considered it that way! Especially on the western trained method and high hands!

[Rosewatt]

Oh certainly Anxiety, I’m telling you! Honestly, I just like to think things over before I make actions on them and everyone here is so knowledgeable!

I am really curious about the high vs. low hands though, which is why I asked the question. I’ve had several trainers over the years and each one has had a different stance on the topic. I was just curious is all.

[SpicyPRE]

“Sitting on the pockets” sounds like a driving seat. Although in my lesson this past week, my trainer was talking to me about how my pelvis was rotated down and blocking the forward motion. I wonder if the trainer was using a visual to discuss pelvis angle rather than truly wanting you to sit on your pockets?

[Mondo]

@SpicyPRE

Sitting on the pockets” sounds like a driving seat. Although in my lesson this past week, my trainer was talking to me about how my pelvis was rotated down and blocking the forward motion. I wonder if the trainer was using a visual to discuss pelvis angle rather than truly wanting you to sit on your pockets?

Sit on your pockets is often used to correct pelvis angle. Nobody actually needs or wants to have their seat curled that far under (I hope!). It just means don’t sit on your crotch, which is an all too frequent occurrence for some riders; sitting on the crotch with lower back hollow. So you are correct that the trainer was using a visual to discuss pelvis angle.