Right. Except you comment how everyone does it wrong and you never say how you achieve your amazing results. At some point one puts up or…
6 Likes
^^^^ And now we will just hear crickets.
1 Like
What do you mean? There are no amazing results, just good well mannered horses. Nothing amazing about that. Expected, maybe, but not amazing. Unless you are accustomed to poorly trained ill behaved horses. Horse training is a lot of work. Do you think I have some majik thing I can explain in a paragraph or two? It’s countless hours with the horses over years and years.
OP- I agree with short learning sessions at this point. But I do think you need to address the “20 mins and she gets antsy to go back to friends” now or it’s going to get worse not better. When I’m working any horse through an issue- my goal is always, how do I make the right choice the easy choice and the wrong choice the hard choice? Maybe after the 20 mins of work, she gets to handgraze and chill with you for a few minutes or maybe she really likes being curried or ?? But if she’s carrying on and being antsy, she has to work (and hey for a yearling, that can mean even just standing tied). Whatever you do, don’t make going back to her friends the reward.
3 Likes
Despite what PB has suggested… for a youngster with a limited attention span and no rush to get a trained to the 9’s sales horse, short training sessions stopping before she is going to get antsy You don’t want to let her get antsy and then stop as she’s in control. If you stop before she gets antsy, then you’re in control and making the decision to stop (not her).
She does need to learn to tie, clip, bathe, groom, etc. As she ages, so does the length of her training sessions 
The “reward” can be as simple as stopping what making her antsy. (at least IMO and most likely at odds with other posters here ).
3 Likes
There’s no reason to force a yearling to “learn patience” just because some sales yearlings have. I spent my high school years working on a small sport horse breeding and training farm.
We brushed the foals, picked their feet, taught them to lead, etc before they were weaned. After weaning they got thrown in a field until they were 3, other than having their feet done and vaccinations. I don’t remember ever having an issue with the 3yo. They could all get clipped, bathed, etc. Most went on to be A circuit hunters, a few jumpers, and the odd eventer. All were amateur friendly horses.
My current 9yo was bought as a yearling. It was a vet that bred him and she ensured that he had the basics to be a good citizen. He did everything you would expect a baby to do. As his attention span grew we asked more of him.
We currently have a yearling as well. We bought her in the fall but didn’t bring her home until the beginning of April. She moved from a facility with close to 50 horses, 6 of which were her age, to a small farm with 2 older geldings. Understandably she’s having to deal with being “alone” when we bring her in to play with her. It’s easier if you have two people because one person can keep her focus or distract her from thinking about her buddies while the other person picks her feet, or brushes her belly, etc.
I always start with the things she dislikes, like touching her legs or going for a walk around the ring all by herself or getting sprayed with fly spray, then reward her with the things she likes or doesn’t mind, like currying her bug bitten itchy chest, etc. She doesn’t get any treats with her “training”.
We keep it 15-20 minutes if she’s alone, if the boys are in the barn with her then we’ll spend closer to 30 minutes. Some of that time is just talking while she stands quietly beside us.
Our next obstacle with her will be trailer training. We’ll start with short trips with one of the boys, but by the end of this summer I’d like her to be comfortable loading and going around the block all by herself.
There’s no point bombarding a yearling with a million things. If they don’t need to know all of these things yet than take your time introducing them slowly.
P.S. I’ve met enough ottb’s who went through the yearling sales to know that they are not all solid citizens. Twitches are commonplace. Many have been led their entire lives with a chain, etc.
2 Likes
A horse that only cooperates when it’s within certain parameters (time, location, etc) is not trained. And avoiding going outside those parameters because the horse will stop cooperating is not training. You are just kicking the can down the road and hoping nothing happens in this horse’s life where it would be really important to have a well trained cooperative youngster during adverse conditions. So I really mean it when I say good luck.
1 Like
ah yes because many of the world’s largest sport horse breeding facilities have been doing it all wrong for centuries…
You don’t take a child and just throw them off the dock, you spend time teaching them the basics and giving them tools to succeed first. It’s well established that different animals of different ages are only able to concentrate for a certain amount of time, after that they often shut down and get frustrated or anxious. You don’t spend 3 hours teaching a 4yo child to read, you don’t spend an entire day teaching a puppy to sit. Multiple short sessions are often more productive then one long session. Training horses is no different. Constantly pushing and battling with some young horses does work, I’ll give you that, but you’ll just create issues with others. A lot of training is listening to the horse.
OP just keep on doing what you’re doing. If your baby stands well for the vet and farrier with another horse around, and you can get them on a trailer then there aren’t that many emergency scenarios that you won’t already be able to deal with. Just keep on pushing the boundaries without causing major setbacks. Sometimes it will be one step forward, two steps back, but that’s ok. Just avoid scaring your baby, that’s a lot harder to come back from, and it often happens because someone was rushing for no good reason.
There’s a huge leap from “this yearling starts pawing after 20-30 minutes to you’ll never be able to take your 5yo to a show because they’re out of control”.
4 Likes
PB my question stems from the age of the horse. I don’t expect my 4 year old niece to be able to sit quietly through a dissertation on physics, as I would be 18 year old nephew. Such as my 12 year old show horse is expected to put up with pretty much anything and everything I throw at her, but my yearling, I’m asking if it’s ok to lower the bar quite a bit to her level of maturity. I just wanted to make sure that I’m on the right path, and I think we are from most of the feedback given here. She’s solid for baths, grooming, fly spray, clipping, stands for the farrier, and has trailered several times. I don’t tie her unsupervised at all yet, although she understands giving to pressure. She can get a little nervous and antsy away from her buddies and alone in the barn, so that’s where she gets curried (her favorite). I’m hand grazing her on our way back to the field, instead of her trying to drag me back. That seems to be working pretty well. She’s smart and willing, so I don’t expect any issues, but also sensitive and could easily be overwhelmed.
I’ve prepped sales yearlings and worked the sales for years for a major consignor at Keeneland. This is what we did with our yearlings:
Brought in from turnout, fed. Groomed for 15 minutes. At some point in the day, handwalked for 30 minutes, three days per week. On the walking machine 2 days per week (30min). The fat lazy ones may also have been worked in the round pen for 10 minutes (5min each way). Ones that shouldn’t have been on the walker going in circles (due to x-ray issues, previous surgery to remove a chip), I ponied instead. If they were sweaty, they were hosed off after work.
At the MOST, each yearling was handled for an hour a day, including leading to/from turnout, grooming, and handwalking. It was never an hour straight, but broken into segments due to each activity. 20 minutes is plenty to expect a yearling to have an attention span to stand for grooming and routine care. Handwalking was built up from 10min to 30min, and there were a few occasions when the colts got rank and naughty (lip chains, my friends). Handwalking is great to develop work ethic, and keep them marching just a little farther those moments when they don’t want to. These weren’t feral creatures pulled from a field and expected to be model citizens immediately. They all had basic handling, but their attention and confidence grew as they were worked with each day, starting late May to get ready for early September.
At the sales, yes we started at 5am. Yearlings were handwalked while stalls were cleaned (about 10-15 minutes), back in the stalls for a break while the whole shedrow was done. Then each was groomed, took about 10 minutes, held in the aisle way. Back in the stall until buyers came to look. Out of the stall when called, wiped down with a brush or a rag, wet the mane, polish feet, then out to show. Typical “look” took about 5 minutes (standing and walking), then the yearling went back to its stall. If we were “slammed” busy with multiple all-shows, a yearling might be out showing to four or five different buyers, and standing in the aisle in between looks. Even with the hottest horse, I don’t think they were out for more than 40 minutes consecutively. There would be a LOT of back to the stall, then immediately back out…but even that short minute break allowed the yearling to take a rest and relax.
Believe it or not, farm life does NOT prepare them for all they see at the sales, but remarkably most of them adapt quickly within the first day. They might start out a little “fresh” and rank, after a couple hours they settle down, and by the end of the day the busy ones are tired and a little sour. Most buyers know what they are looking at, and forgive baby mistakes like fidgeting, or an exuberant leap. You know the horses you see in the chilly morning at 8am will be a little bit wilder than the ones you see at 3pm in the afternoon sun. They are not robots, and while most are good to handle, they are NOT treated like an adult horse with the same expectations.
While I don’t raise my own horses to sell as yearlings, I do similar things with mine. My 3.5 month old colt stands for grooming and picking feet, I spend about 5 minutes a day with him while his mom eats. In a year, I’ll expect him to gently tie (perhaps cross-tie) for 10-15 minutes for grooming and farrier. I’ll start handwalking him 15-20 minutes a few days per week, as I think that’s great for building work ethic and developing some muscle tone. My last yearling was ground-driving at 15 months, I took him all over the trails in the woods. I don’t lunge or round pen before late 2yo, too hard on joints.
5 Likes
There is not ever one way to get things done with horses.
I always end on a good note, and I always try and end on a good note of MY choosing, i.e. something I asked for and the horse offered me up a good try. I also always try and work a little bit longer than we did the last time when it comes to youngsters, or ask for a little bit more in the time we are together. If they were good for 20 minutes, we try for 21. If 20 is all I get that day, I take it in good faith that that is truly all the horse can offer me in that moment, but I never stop asking for a little bit more each time. I have never had this approach not work, but I have had to work a bit more with certain horses.
OP, keep doing what you’re doing. If you’ve been successful with this approach thus far, the horse is all you need to tell you you’re on the right track with them.
4 Likes
OP, seems some people are forgetting that there are many roads to Rome. I love that you’re taking it slow with your yearling! Given what it seems you want to do with her, you have plenty of time for her to grow her attention span naturally.
I think keeping it to 20 minute sessions makes perfect sense. Don’t give her a reason to escalate, and she won’t learn how to behave badly. By slowly increasing “pressures” like clippers, longer grooming times, tack, trail walking, etc. as she ages and matures, she will learn to be a more confident horse because you will never have overfaced her. That’s not to say that you shouldn’t push her boundaries and teach her how to behave in all circumstances, but there’s a difference between pushing where appropriate and simply expecting the horse to “deal with it” from day one. Do what feels right, and as long as she’s continuing to experience new things and learning, you’re on the right track.
2 Likes
I would suggest multiple short minute lessons.
If you don’t want to keep looking at your phone put on an audio of an old warner brothers cartoon on your phone. When the cartoon ends stop the lesson, they have the attention span of a toddler down to a science.
1 Like
I bought one long yearling who was destine for the show circuit… she did not fully understand what was expected until late summer of being three, afterwards she had the job done pat. I remember the show when the switch turned on, then she was a professional
1 Like
My yearling is now 2 and I struggled with the same question. I always keep it short and give breaks. I’ll bring him in, groom him, give him some hand grazing or time grazing in a paddock then ask for more “work”. I wanted to get him ground driving and moved him to a trainers barn and she spent all winter teaching him patience…by leaving him on cross ties for hours. His patience deteriorated and he picked up a few bad habits. As soon as I realized what was happening I moved him and gave him some mental time off. He’s doing amazing now and his attention span is getting longer. I think the most important thing if you don’t have a timeline is to let the horse tell you what they need. No you don’t want to let any bad behaviors continue but either shorten the sessions or do something to interrupt that behavior like the hand grazing or maybe halfway back to the field stop and curry there. Also be prepared to change your plans depending on how they seem that day. Sometimes it’s too hot so I switch gears last week we did nothing but graze and learn to be sponged and scraped off.
You train the horse in front of you, you don’t train by a clock. Some horses learn faster than others. But to go by a hard and fast rule such as “never more than 20 minutes at age X” or whatever is plain silly.
And you’ve already identified a problem that could lead to trouble, it’s bolded. With any sensitive horse, especially one that can be easily overwhelmed, I’d have desensitizing be a big part of what I do with the horse every day. It will give her confidence, and she’ll lose the bit of separation anxiety she is showing.
2 Likes
Quote me please. Where did I say “everyone does it wrong?” I’m betting you are lying and this is sour grapes for whatever silly reason inside your head. I disagree with the occasional person, but I’ve never said, “everyone does it wrong.” And I’ve repeatedly said that horse training is a lot of hard work. I don’t care if you make a personal statement about me, but AT LEAST BE ACCURATE AND DON"T MAKE THINGS UP.
@Palm Beach, are you okay? I ask genuinely - while I don’t always agree with you, your posts generally don’t have this kind of angry tone to them.
You’ve rebuffed everyone on this thread who has said that taking teaching of a yearling in smaller increments of time is perfectly OK. You’ve stated multiple ways that it is, per your experience, not the right way to go about things. I think that’s what Denali was getting at. The implied message is there. It’s certainly how I read all of your posts. If this is not what you meant, perhaps you can clarify further.
Your experiences have brought you to a certain way of doing things. That’s fine. There’s more than one road to Rome - but to say in one post that “you train the horse in front of you, you don’t train by a clock” after having said in an earlier post “they should be able to tie up for a couple hours by the time they are a yearling. You should be able to haul them to a horse show and have them tie to the trailer eating from a hay net all day”…can you see how you’re contradicting yourself? There is no “should” with horses. They either can or they cannot. And if they cannot, you continue to work with them until they can, and you define that work based on the horse you’ve got in front of you. The horse doesn’t know “should”.
7 Likes
Good, thanks. I do feel that there is a general consensus to avoid conflict and to keep the youngster in it’s comfort zone, and to stop working with the youngster while the youngster is still happy and in a good, cooperative mood. I disagree.
This does NOT mean you have a “come to Jesus” day with the kid. Use some common sense. You need to add a bit of discomfort to the training so the youngster searches for a way to get back to the comfortable place. This is how they learn. They have to respond incorrectly in order to extinguish the incorrect response. Sometimes multiple times. But if you are tiptoeing around the horse and you stop your training session while he is “still in a good mood” you never get the incorrect response so it is still there.
If people want to take it slow and not teach much to youngsters, fine with me, hope the little guy never needs those skills unexpectedly such as an injury or other emergency situation. I’d rather be prepared for the worst and give them solid coping skills and never need them.
1 Like
I work full time on a breeding farm. At the moment we have 14 youngsters ranging in ages of newborn to 3yrs old. Every single kid on this farm is 100% willing to do anything and everything we ask of them. Guess what? Never once have we spent hours forcing them to do anything at all. They do it because we have allowed them to be horses and we’ve never given them a reason to not be confident. Their earlier days are short and sweet when we handle them and as they age they just fold right into their program. Our 3 yr olds this year are amazing – they haven’t put a step wrong when we pulled them out to re-start this Spring. We’ve taken them off farm and they’ve stood on the trailer without incident - even our 2 yr olds have done the same. It’s all in the raising…and I feel like the gentle, yet firm approach is what is the most affective. We haven’t had a problem with it at all! Anyone that’s met our babies have asked what our secret is…it’s not really a secret, it’s just a way of life for them. It’s never making a big deal out of things, no screaming or yelling, and understanding they are young and just being patient with them.
Everyone has a way of doing these things but considering the young horse and it’s attention span is very important. Also, understanding horses as a whole is absolutely vital.
To the OP - I’d keep things short and sweet with your baby. Groom him/her, ask for it’s feet, allow them to be curious, open windows for him/her and allow them to find their way through. They will find confidence in you if you allow them to just be a horse.
2 Likes
