Handling new foals within their first 24 hours of life?

[Dr_Doolittle]

What is the appropriate amount of handling, in everyone’s opinion? (and I’m sure there will be a variety of them ;))

NO worries–for those who have been following my “saga”–there is no foal. Yet!

There will be (she hopes) ANY DAY NOW! Not that I am remotely anxious, or excited, or on pins and needles, or at ALL stressed about it…

:lol:

I talked to the Barn Manager at the Repro Center the other day (he does a good bit of the handling of all the foals who are born there, so has probably worked with hundreds of them over the years), and he told me that “we don’t handle the foals for the first 24 hours, so that they have a chance to bond with their moms.”

Other than the vet checking them over and evaluating them (and providing extra care or help if necessary), they seem to prefer a hands-off approach. Obviously the opposite approach would be Imprinting, though I’m not sure whether that’s absolutely necessary either (have heard mixed things.)

They start handling on day 2, and put the halter on, pick up feet, etc.–so there is obviously hands-on involvement pretty early, but as the owner, what should my role be? I would certainly like to handle the foal as soon as possible (providing that everything is okay, and it’s not a dummy, can figure out how to nurse, etc.)

I have some experience with foal handling (though it’s been awhile ;)), but I’m not planning to do the whole Dr. Miller thing; I would just like to be able to put hands on her while she is young enough to accept it and become accustomed to it.

Another concern: they halter the young foals when they turn them out with their moms, and they use the halter and lead to control the foals’ heads :eek:, which I thought was a big no-no under a certain age (fragile foal necks), though they do often–not always–also use a butt rope. If the foal resists, they do pull on the foal to restrain it, probably for safety reasons (if the foal were to get loose from the dam on the way to the paddock, there are lots of places on the property where it could run off and get into trouble, even though the paddocks aren’t that far from the barns. And aren’t they ALL suicidal?!?)

Clearly, I have had plenty of time to observe things, and ruminate on them…

What say you all??

TIA for any and all opinions

[SnicklefritzG]

I say: pictures must be posted as soon as possible after you’ve made sure the new foal is ok (when he/she finally arrives)

[Dr_Doolittle]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;6398423]
I say: pictures must be posted as soon as possible after you’ve made sure the new foal is ok (when he/she finally arrives)[/QUOTE]

[JB]

I say - handle as much as necessary, but don’t go overboard.

I did the chlorhexidine navel dip, so I HAD to handle my foal 3x a day for a couple of days to get that done. He was also having trouble getting up the first day or two, so I handled him to help with that. While he was laying down, I’d stand over him, rub him, tap on his feet, for about 30 seconds or so, that was it, and usually in the process of dipping his navel.

There’s simply no need to go hog wild handling them just because you want to

[Bluey]

Nonsense, try what works best for you and your mares and foals and do that, may not even be the same for each one.

We foaled in some pens, generally at night, when we treated the navel right then.
Next morning we haltered the foals with a tail rope,gave them an enema and any other the vet protocol asked for and very gently led them with the mothers, mostly the one with the foal was led by the foal ;), to other pens.

We haltered them and led them around for a couple of minutes each day, always very gently with little tugs, never holding the lead tight, picked feet and did a bit more brushing lightly and so and tied them with their mothers.
We tied with their leadrope over one pipe and tied below to another, so the foal could move around and wiggle and didn’t feel tied solid.
Never ever had one pull back.
We cleaned the pens in five minutes and went back to let them loose, so foals were not tied long.

We did that for about three or so weeks, until the mare was either bred in the foal heat or was out of heat, then turned them out and didn’t handle them again, just checked on them and scratched them while turned out, until several days after weaning, when we again started haltering and tying them and they remembered very well.
We never had a foal once grown be a puller when tied either.

I don’t think is so much what you do or when you do it, but HOW you go about it that counts, whatever you do, whenever you do it.:yes:

That was all before Dr Miller’s imprinting theories came out, so we didn’t do any of that, which may be overhandling, or not, I don’t have any experience with that.

Edited to add pictures:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a298/Robintoo/Scan-1.jpg

Black mare’s picture reads “28 hours old, second haltering, first tying”.

[rideagoldenpony]

I don’t believe in imprint training, but I handle the foals as much as I feel like. I go out many times a day in their first few days, both to make friends with them, and also to make sure that everything is 100% with them.

I don’t believe my handling of them has EVER interfered with them bonding with their dams.

We usually have our foals wear a halter for the first time on about their third day, and we do as your repro farm does – they are led in and out with their dams. It is a very easy, trouble-free way of halter breaking them, and they seldom have more than a slight objection, at most.

I try not to OVER handle them, as I think it leads to a pushy, rude youngster down the road. I like them to think positively of their interactions with humans, but I don’t generally want them “all over” me.

We decrease our daily handling of the foals when the mares have gone out to pasture. I am still down there every day checking everyone out, but it doesn’t mean that I will necessarily pet or handle every foal every day. They come up monthly to be caught, dewormed and receive any hoof care they might need, and they do just fine with that. Once they are weaned, they are sociable and ready to be good little citizens.

[Twisted_River]

[QUOTE=Dr. Doolittle;6398403]
“we don’t handle the foals for the first 24 hours, so that they have a chance to bond with their moms.”

Other than the vet checking them over and evaluating them (and providing extra care or help if necessary), they seem to prefer a hands-off approach.[/QUOTE]
This is what I was told and what I did with mine. In my case, staying up till the wee hours of the night for foaling, then being out at the barn early for the vet and barn chores meant I really didn’t mind going in for an afternoon nap and leaving them be the first 24 hours anyways.

I understand the “theory” of imprinting. But in actuality I think it’s a huge waste of time and is potentially very stressful for both the newborn and the mom. I’ve worked at 3 different WB breeding farms, as well as breeding my own mares. All the foals (none of which were “imprinted”) were more than happy to have you interact with them. Foals are itchy little critters They are more than happy to be pet, rubbed, brushed, etc…

[AKB]

My neighbor always has well behaved babies. She seems to handle hers quite a bit in the first 24 hours. By the time you check the placenta, treat the umbilical cord stump repeatedly with chlorhexidine, make sure the baby is nursing, watch for the first pee, watch for the first couple of poops, clean the foaling stall, and hold the baby for the vet to do the IgG, there has been a lot of handling. After all of that, my neighbor finally gets a good nap. Then it is time to treat the umbilical stump again, make sure the baby is still nursing well, and clean the stall again. The first day of life is a lot of work if you are the barn help as well as the owner. The moms and babies never seem stressed by the amount of handling. After the first day, everything seems to settle down and the amount of handling goes down.

[oppsie2]

DD - OF course my situation was different, so Danika had to be handled a good bit. After she got the hang of eating on her own, I was so exhausted that I didn’t play with her for a few days. she became a little wild. We are back to 5 minutes of “work” a day - haltering her, leading, just rubbing all over, picking up little feet, spraying her legs, etc. She is back to being a much kinder little thing - or should I say TANK!?

I promise to post pictures…

[Twisted_River]

[QUOTE=AKB;6398506]
My neighbor always has well behaved babies. She seems to handle hers quite a bit in the first 24 hours. By the time you check the placenta, treat the umbilical cord stump repeatedly with chlorhexidine, make sure the baby is nursing, watch for the first pee, watch for the first couple of poops, clean the foaling stall, and hold the baby for the vet to do the IgG, there has been a lot of handling. After all of that, my neighbor finally gets a good nap. Then it is time to treat the umbilical stump again, make sure the baby is still nursing well, and clean the stall again. The first day of life is a lot of work if you are the barn help as well as the owner. The moms and babies never seem stressed by the amount of handling. After the first day, everything seems to settle down and the amount of handling goes down.[/QUOTE] All of this is kind of a given, and half of it it observation, not handling. Every foal should receive these things, especially the observation time.

My understanding of the question is do you, in the first 24 hours, do things like: touch the foal everywhere, brush the foal, handle the foals feet, shake a plastic bag at the foal, run clippers near the foal, use a spray bottle on the foal, put a halter on the foal, etc. Not basic necessary responsible health care (so to speak) , but all the optional things that people do when “imprint training.” I don’t personally think any of it’s necessary to do to a newborn and feel things like plastic bags and clippers can create unnecessary stress for the little one (and mom). But of course that’s just my opinion, and there’s plenty of people out there that swear by imprinting.

[Damrock_Farm]

Here I handle the foals right away if it’s cold. My barn is not heated and unfortunately, race horses are bred to deliver as close to Jan 1 as possible. So I dry the foals and blanket them right away. I also dip the navels as soon as the cord breaks. After that, I go in the house an leave mom and baby alone, assuming that everything is normal. If there are problems, obviously I handle the foals a lot more, such as a dummy foal that we had this year. Generally, after the first couple of nursings, I handle all the babies routinely. Depending on their personalities, some are haltered right away, others are not. If they are skittish, they get a halter with a catch strap on it. I rub them all over, dip their navels a few times a day. Every time we go in or out of the barn, I first lift all their feet, etc. It takes very little time to make a foal well mannered by starting early before they are stronger than you.

[Dr_Doolittle]

THANKS, everyone–all very helpful input!

It sounds like some sort of common sense compromise–between the extreme methods that Twisted River describes, and “totally hands off”–is the most logical approach.

Please keep the opinions and stories coming, it’s much appreciated

[Laurierace]

You are going to have to defer to the breeding farms policies for the most part but I don’t think they can keep you away from your own mare and foal completely.

[DLee]

I always handle mine, dry them off etc. Can’t help it, I want to! My mare trusts me implicitly so she is not stressed, I am very careful to not allow nipping or being pushy. It’s too hot to leave them out so we go in and out of the barn a lot.

Enjoy your baby, they are little for such a short time!

[Cindy_s_Warmbloods]

I handle mine a fair bit but just scratches and loving on them about 5 min at at time multiple times a day from the beginning. I don’t shake bags or do that kind of stuff. I used to halter right away but have found that it was easier to leave them for a month or so. Their noses are quite sensitive at the beginning and it seems much easier after a month to slip the halter on and off. It also gives me the time to establish trust and really bond with them. I went out to rasp my foals feet at just 2-3 wks of age and he stood perfect without a halter on. I raise all my foals on 160 acres and all walk up to me for scratches and loving on. I pick up feet as soon as their balance is o.k. at a few days old and just restrain around the chest while I do it. After a month or so I start to halter and work on leading and have had no issues. I think the two biggest things I focus on are trust and respect, the rest is just training and can be done at any age.

[Slewdledo]

We deliver the foal, dry it off, do the navel, help stand and/or nurse if needed, then leave them alone except to treat navel or aid in standing/nursing if needed. They stay inside for the first day or two (or longer depending on weather.) Whenever they are taken from the stall, baby’s wearing a butt rope.

With my own foals, I will go in the stall and just sit with mom and baby. Baby is free to come say hello, but it’s usually too soon for them to be thinking about that and any contact with me is incidental.

[DawnJL]

I handle my foals routinely (neonate care, haltering and leading within a day, brief periods of stroking with the foal free to leave or stay, etc.), but do not “imprint” a la Dr. Miller’s protocol. I do cultivate trusting respectful relationships with my mares because foals “read” their dams behavior toward humans and respond accordingly.

There’s a good overview of equine neonates basic physical, mental, and social development here: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=17660&src=topic

(a few different perspectives on “imprinting”:
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=19486
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=18879 there are plenty more elsewhere in cyberspace)

[Sunnydays]

I do pretty much as Cindy and Dawn describe. My mares trust me with the foals (I am the “other” parent) so my presence is not stressful. Trust and respect are essential, and pretty easy, to establish.
In the first 24 hours, I’m easily in the stall for 3 — which still leaves 21 hours for the mare and foal to bond in solitude. Plenty.

[JB]

[QUOTE=Twisted River;6398593]
I don’t personally think any of it’s necessary to do to a newborn and feel things like plastic bags and clippers can create unnecessary stress for the little one (and mom). But of course that’s just my opinion, and there’s plenty of people out there that swear by imprinting.[/QUOTE]
I agree TR, I don’t think all that is necessary at all, and can just create problems if you aren’t very aware of how you’re proceeding relative to the foal’s reaction.

Mine was handled a good bit, like I said, but I already had to be there several times a day for the navel, so I just did a few extra things since he was already laying down. I probably slipped his halter on and off a couple of times the first day, maybe. But most of the work was done after that, and my vet has constantly commended me on how easy he is to handle.

Saying one “imprinted” their foal and that’s the reason he’s so good is not a valid logical conclusion, as there are many, MANY foals who are barely handled that early and still come out well-behaved. As you said - quality, not quantity or earliness.

Besides - horses cannot imprint in the true definition of the word

[Dr_Doolittle]

“Trust and respect”, “quality, not quantity”, check!

Thanks everyone, this sounds exactly like what I had in mind…The vet will be there for the delivery (and will treat the umbilicus and monitor the foal’s first hours), and I will go down later (obviously, since I live an hour away and she will no doubt “go” in the middle of the night), and just hang out by the stall. Or in it, if the new mom is chill.

Obviously I want to observe my mare, watch her behavior towards the foal, and see how she handles people being around her baby. She is normally very respectful of humans (and has good manners–thanks to me!), but a Maiden mare with her first newborn is a bit of an unknown quantity!

I will try to find out from the vet (when she calls) how my mare is handling new motherhood, with luck she will be loving and accepting, and not “over the top” protective.

Dawn, thanks for the links; I will check them out!

Obviously NO baby yet :sigh:, but the vet called last night and said that her milk was thicker and whiter yesterday (first change in it since it started coming in white last Thursday), and that her tailhead muscles were even softer. No change in the vulva or in her behavior.

I look at this as giving me more time to become additionally prepared! As if one is EVER properly prepared for such a thing…