April 2023
September 2023
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Yeah, I remember your various other threads and know how much you’ve struggled with this guy! I also have a delicate red OTTB with some mysterious soundness stuff that does all sorts of wild moves in his field so, I totally feel you. It’s hard, triply so when you’re trying to do things on an even vaguely reasonable budget. He’s lucky he wound up with you.
Who was doing his feet in the April '23 shots? How was his soundness during that time?
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Rehab barn farrier, about an hour from me. He was ouchy on the gravel and it was summer - they were all a little footsore on the concrete-hard ground. Otherwise reasonably sound, though he was basically not being handled or asked to do anything but come up for dinner. I was MIA at the time so it was all just second hand info.
Also thanks. I know it’s a lot and I’m always on here about this one 
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Gotcha. That’s probably my favorite trim of the pictures you’ve shown, but I understand how that’s logistically…well, impossible! The September 2023 trim isn’t bad IMO, but I would like to see a better bevel all the way around, a little more curve to the heel of the more upright front, and it’s hard to say for sure without seeing pics of the underside, but I think more toe could probably come off the hinds as well. I’d be hesitant to glue to the September 2023 trim without those modifications, whereas the April 2023 trim looks pretty glue-ready (minus the hoof polish, ofc).
I think the current hinds don’t look worse, at least, in terms of NPA. I’d love to see them freshly after a trim to get a better sense of where they’re at.
If you’re reasonably comfortable with some minor rasp work, I think it might be doable to have your farrier trim, you tweak it, then glue yourself. There’s a definite learning curve but it can be done. I can’t promise it will be less expensive or stressful, but, well… anything’s worth a shot once, right?
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With the angle of the pictures it is hard to say for sure but the hind feet look worse, the heels appear to be more underrun in the after pictures.
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Potentially so. Hard to tell.
The amount of times I’ve gone through the wringer with this horse I should have just learned how to do it myself 
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Truly, this is the way to go. I’m lucky that I have someone good right now, but he keeps threatening to retire. In fact, he did retire about 2 years ago and I’m one of only a couple clients he kept on. I’m hanging onto him for as long as he’ll let me, but in the meantime I’m trying to improve my skills so I’m not totally screwed when it’s time to find someone new. Because there just isn’t anyone. It’s wild.
Following this thread with interest because I have considered the same. All of mine are barefoot right now and doing well, but as the season ramps up I’m guessing one or two of them will need at least fronts. I’m loathe to put them back in steels with frog support pads even though they do well in them; barefoot is so EASY and losing shoes sucks so bad. So I’m kicking around the idea of composites or casting that I can do myself if they end up needing a little extra support.
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I knew someone who had a horse with similar issues. They too kept cycling through better/better/worse trim/shoeing jobs.
What appeared to be happening was that the farrier was not paying attention when the hooves were still better at the end of the cycle, and was failing to do the more aggressive in places trim that was allowing the progress. Which led to a regression by the end of that cycle, making the issues evident enough for the farrier to do the more aggressive in places trim for the next couple of cycles. This occured over and over.
We like to think our farriers and vets remember our horses’ specific issues, but it’s worth reminding them that this is the horse who tends to grow too much toe (or whatever specific thing) every time you bring that horse out for the farrier. Especially when the horse hasn’t done that thing during this most recent cycle! You want to get the trim that achieved those results, not a regular trim.
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I recently made a temporary shoe out of SuperFast when my horse lost a hind shoe and I was trying to keep him from ripping the foot apart while I waited on the farrier for several days (almost made it with all shoes to our regular appointment but not quite and then there was a weather delay). I got into this horrible cycle of having to do nails and glue last winter, and when it was wet (last winter/spring was very wet for us), it was just awful. Could not get anything to stay on. We had to use a tiny shoe to not shoe him too full but hopefully this one will stay on long enough for him to grow out and we won’t go through all that craziness again. The farrier supply people said I should just take a course, and I was tempted to do it.
Even with a heat gun, the prep is hard in general for a horse that lives out 24/7 especially where there is mud and you don’t have the best feet to start with. We had some snow and mud when I did my temporary glue shoe, so I cleaned up the foot with a wire brush and rasp then let horse eat lunch in his stall for a while. Then did the wire brush again before applying, curing and shaping the SuperFast. He did not get turned back out into the wet until the next day. It wasn’t the prettiest and I made it somewhat thin to be easy to remove in less than a week but it did work quite well for what I needed.
You may want to consider if you DIY your glue ons but hire the farrier only for trims how much work farrier will have to do to take the glue ons OFF before he can trim.
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There’s a pretty substantial difference in the prep needed to do a direct glue to the sole (which it sounds like you were doing with superfast) than doing one of the indirect options like the Versa Octos or Glues. Not to mention, the absolute worst glues to work with in wet conditions are urethane (SuperFast, Adhere, HoofTite)–they have absolutely no wiggle room for moisture, they won’t bond to each other, and are just generally really finicky. My horses live out 24/7 and lord knows we have mud, and a couple of them are in glued on composites almost year-round. During the winter I will almost exclusively use an acrylic glue (Equilox, EasyCare Bond) or superglue because they are much more forgiving of moisture. They still require prep, but not the Herculean, cross your fingers and pray sort of prep that the urethanes require.
Removal is definitely a consideration–the Octos are really easy IMO; I just use a slightly dull set of nippers and peel each tab off from the top. There’s a small amount of superglue left over on the wall that can be easily rasped away. I can usually get 3 resets out of a pair though it depends on the horse. The Versa Glues are more involved; the upside is better retention, the downside is they can be a &%$#! to get off, and resets are much more difficult. Plus there’s a lot more glue on the wall–pretty quick to remove with a buffy, but slower going with a rasp.
Garrett Ford, the owner of EasyCare, is working on a shoe he’s calling the Versa Change (I think) that is supposed to be a mix of a boot and a shoe. The idea is that you trim, apply the shoe, glue tabs into place, then with the pull of small belt you can remove the shoe as needed then reapply with the belt when you need a shoe on. The idea continues to evolve but he’s really excited about the concept and I think it may be on the market in the next year or two. Here’s a video of one of the early iterations from last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kHBPZD8gIM You would just need to re-glue the tabs every trim. All in all seems like a really neat idea for the horses that need support during rides or competitions, but are okay in their stall/turned out/etc. This could be an option for you down the line!
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Holy crap. This is SO cool. I would also use these on the ones that don’t get ridden who need a little intermittent help with frozen ground, etc.
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Hopefully, I won’t need anything while it’s wet. Maybe on the new guy, but I’m really hoping that the shoe thing will be a summer only debacle.
I’d be taking them off for him - at least that’s the plan! I believe the octos and other basic wall glue shoes are easier to remove, but that’s just what google tells me.
In theory, I want bare horse + boots as needed. Most likely, I’ll need something for turnout and thus here we are.
From the photos you posted the fronts looked best Jan 2023 IMO. Hinds looked best April 2023. I highly recommend taking photos every trim/ shoeing cycle. Take them with your phone on the ground (level if possible), horse standing square, and then try to line up the heel bulbs so the one closest to you just barely covers the one on the inside (if that makes sense). That should help make the photos more uniform/ get them more “true” to lateral.
How long are the cycles? If he’s not already on 5 weeks, that could help a good bit.
It looks like his LF is the problem hoof, whereas the RF is a bit more “normal”. I have the inverse with my horse. I’m sure you know, the trim under the shoeing package is paramount. Personally, I don’t love the trim the current farrier is giving the horse. I don’t think it’s doing the horse any favors anywhere.
What are your biggest complaints on his hooves?
Do you have any recent/ semi recent pics of the fronts “naked”?
What shoeing set ups have you tried in the past?
Do you have X-rays/ have you ever done the shoe/ trim to xray thing?
Hmm that is interesting. We have a guy that comes to our barn who only does barefoot or glue ons, and he always uses SuperFast as his “glue”. He likes jt better than the other options and thinks it has enough give. He also does a lot of rehabs that are also often using some other kind of similar product like Equipak in the shoe, so maybe he does it because those play nicer together?
Adhere was a nightmare for me for hoof wall repairs last year, even driving nails after application. It wasn’t as flexible and if any little gap formed, a total nightmare. At one point, I was nipping and reapplying some every few days. At that time I did find SuperFast stayed on a little bit better due to more flex even if not as strong in the “glue” properties as Adhere was supposed to be. Which is how i had some left over to handle this year’s lost shoe issue.
I’m sure some of the acrylic type products are better these days but I have PTSD from my childhood with glue ons for our appendix who pulled shoes like mad in the wet season, and we didn’t even have much mud per se…it was sandy, not the boot sucking kind.
If he lives outside, isn’t “something for turnout” the same as any other reason a horse needs shoes?
Meaning I’d love the horse to be barefoot and just wear boots if going on rocky areas or whatever. Most likely though, he’s going to need something he can wear in turnout at least part of the year (like in summer), which I why I’m looking into glue ons vs boots 24/7.
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lol Jan 2023 and March 2023 are the same farrier. March was just without shoes on at that moment. DRASTIC change in just 3 months.
I could potentially get back to the April 2023 farrier - that’s the rehab barn 1+ hours away - but my work schedule really doesn’t allow for it. Plus hauling this horse is a nightmare. Too bad I’m not independently wealthy and don’t have anything better to do than haul my horses around!
Call and ask that farrier if he could recommend another. Does that farrier not travel in your area to work?
The deterioration of this horses feet is alarming. I wouldn’t let the current one touch him. I would haul an hour each way to have the old feet back.
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I’ve not done any shoes myself, but dearly departed Norman had a couple of different set ups in glue ons though my farrier always drove nails as well. I had zero lost shoes, but I have zero mud and Norman wasn’t prone to acrobatics in TO. Always a 4 wk schedule.
I’m really only replying bc I want to commiserate with you on “get a new farrier, that one’s no good”. That sounds easy and is easy to type on a forum but it’s not always easy in real life. I would have loved to have hired a top of the line, bestest farrier ever. I still would! But if such a farrier exists in my area, he’s unknown to me. Or he’s the guy that notoriously pushes appointments out to 7-9 week cycles (hard pass), or the guy that won’t come to my farm, or the guy that’s not taking new clients, or the guy that hits horses (I’m not trying to go to jail), or is a complete dock to talk to (how bout no). Hauling an hour each way to a farrier appointment is a total non starter for me. Like is this farrier working weekends bc that’s for damn sure the only time that it would be even possible for me to consider that joke. And let’s consider the fact that horse might have some issue that’s causing these hoof issues and God himself could shoe him and the feet would still be trash.
Off my soapbox now but girl, I feel you that just getting a better farrier can be so much easier said than done.
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