Health insurance out of state?

Okay, so ACA is certainly not requiring this change from insurance companies. What is happening, possibly, is that insurance companies are trying to cut their costs by making their provider networks as miniscule as possible, and have possibly found a loophole that lets them cut coverage.

My coverage now is via a large group plan, which is already compliant, and which, as has been noted, is oddly more friendly despite the fine print reading very similarly. So for me, I’m not worried. But I still pay a lot of attention to this area because I have been burned before…

Yes Poltroon, you lucky dog! You are golden, right now. Next year might be another story, so it’s good to check with you insurance carrier when their year ends (they vary when they go by, ie June to June, etc)

This is only affecting people who have no access to group plans, such as myself since I am self-employed. And yes, that is exactly what’s happening. In order to meet the new ACA guidelines, the insurance companies are upping their rates (doubling in my case) and offering very watered down versions which meet the ACA requirements and almost nothing else.

.Plus, you also live in California where it’s warmer than it is here. So you are double golden.:slight_smile:

[QUOTE=jody jaffe;7889939]
Yes Poltroon, you lucky dog! You are golden, right now. Next year might be another story, so it’s good to check with you insurance carrier when their year ends (they vary when they go by, ie June to June, etc)

This is only affecting people who have no access to group plans, such as myself since I am self-employed. And yes, that is exactly what’s happening. In order to meet the new ACA guidelines, the insurance companies are upping their rates (doubling in my case) and offering very watered down versions which meet the ACA requirements and almost nothing else.

.Plus, you also live in California where it’s warmer than it is here. So you are double golden.:)[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I been there, done that. In 2001 I learned that despite having no ongoing medical issues, that I was “too sick” to be insured… so I’ve played this dance many times. My daughter and I were uninsurable at any price for several years. (My daughter’s pediatrician was shocked.) I’ve also learned the hard way about the fine print and the difference between being “at” the hospital and “admitted” to the hospital. Silly me, thinking they were the same. Silly me, thinking my insurance would cover x-rays taken in the ER that revealed broken bones.

Right now, it is not only warmer, but also raining. Looks like my grass will be growing this winter, thank goodness!

I’m not quite sure what you mean by this. Group plans are ACA compliant…well, most are. There are still some that are not (but at this point, the group would have to be trying awfully hard to remain grandfathered). The group requirements were set to go into affect 1/1/14 but where delayed, but that does not mean the plans were not compliant and groups weren’t doing research/analysis to make sure their plans were. I’m a group plan manager as well as have my broker’s license and I don’t expect a ton to change next year (other than costs, as you never get more coverage without paying for it). For reference, our base plan was ACA compliant and while it wasn’t low level coverage, it was high deductible and really only attractive to a certain user type.

Rugbug, the broker i spoke with today told me many group plans were not ACA compliant yet and when they reach the end of their cycle for this year, they will have to change their policies to incorporate the ACA regs. And as a result, he said, the coverage will most likely change to absorb the added costs to make it ACA complaint, as the individual policies have.

I have no idea if this is true, because every broker, Anthem rep and Affordable Health Care rep has told me something different. And if you go to the first page, you will see what another broker wrote me, bascially that he’s getting different stories as well.

It is true that groups may still be on grandfathered plans, but it means they couldn’t make any plan changes since ACA regs starting taking affect in 2010. They would’ve just had to eat ACA cost increases (because believe me, they were built in anyway even if the plan was grandfathered) without the coverage expanding and without trying to manage costs by looking at plan design and alternative carriers. That’s some serious dedication to a grandfathered plan.

Some of this may vary state to state and depending upon whether you’re accustomed to the large group vs. small group market, which behave remarkably differently in ways that are hard to see other than from the inside.

[QUOTE=poltroon;7890166]
Some of this may vary state to state and depending upon whether you’re accustomed to the large group vs. small group market, which behave remarkably differently in ways that are hard to see other than from the inside.[/QUOTE]

That’s true…and I’ve been out of the broker side for quite some time by now. I was involved from the broker’s side with both large and small during the inception of the ACA. Let’s put it this way…I’m happy that I didn’t have to go through the last few years on that side of the insurance fence.

Ok I’ve got a question… if I currently live in Virginia but I move to Florida on Jan 4th do I get Virginia or Florida health insurance?

And if I move back to Virginia sometime during 2015 is that a problem? I have no income and the only lease I’ll have will be in Florida?

Is Florida better for health insurance than Virginia?

[QUOTE=poltroon;7889911]
Okay, so ACA is certainly not requiring this change from insurance companies. What is happening, possibly, is that insurance companies are trying to cut their costs by making their provider networks as miniscule as possible, and have possibly found a loophole that lets them cut coverage. [/QUOTE]

No, no and emphatically NO.

Let’s review some basics. (well OK, they are basics for people well versed in this subject)

  1. approximately 4 cents on every premium dollar goes to insurance company profits (that’s a low profit margin by any standard). They are cash rich due to state and federal requirements relating to “reserving”. This is the mechanism by which insurers cover bad years/unexpected losses without significant fluctuations in price. But they can’t spend that cash except on claims. They can invest it though, although that is heavily regulated and very conservative (thus the reason your health insurers didn’t go belly up with the bank/insurer hybrids in the real estate crash. No sub prime mortgage investment for Anthem!!!)

  2. by law (since 2012), 80 to 85 cents of every premium dollar has to go to your medical care. It was pretty much already there, it’s just if a company had a great year, they could meet reserving requirements without dipping into profitability and they didn’t have to hire another 50 people to track this stuff the way ACA wants it tracked. I’m not lying when I say ACA was quickly renamed the “Actuarial Employment Act” in carrier circles.

  3. there are extensive regulations in place that dictate comprehensive and effective networks. These regulations range from NCQA accreditation to rules within ACA. Given the state of ACA regs, I would rely on NCQA accrediation over ACA, but I’m pretty sure that is not an issue with Anthem. The network may not be everyfreakinghospitalinthestate, but it meets the network requirements in order to serve its population.

  4. Medicaid and Medicare provider compensation are below the actual cost of care, so insured individuals pre-65 are paying more for their care to offset the loss. The good news is you get to play in Medicare some day too!

All of the above is not really important to you because your big problem is that you can not afford the inflation associated with medical expenses.

So why can’t you afford insurance?

Is it because of the insurance companies making money hand over fist? Well no doubt they are making money, and the larger ones are hugely diversified now, owning businesses in many areas of the health sector, not just insurance. And then a big chunk of that is self insured, so they are only getting admin fees, not absorbing profits - or losses - on medical claims. But remember, at 4% average profit margin (6% for an AWESOME year), it’s not a big part of the cost, and it has been relatively constant for decades.

The largest underlying cause to inflation is because the system is designed to reward waste. I believe PWC estimated 1.2 TRILLION in waste/unnecessary/duplicative testing. This problem can only be managed if healthcare systems start to work as one “accountable” organism. In such a way that they are rewarded for better outcomes, not more/repeat care.

The only way that will ever happen is in a small regional system that can get its hands around the entire spectrum of your care, not just own a piece of it. It needs to be a comprehensive organism that is rewarded for YOU being as healthy as you can be, not just racking up the bucks for more care, and letting the insurance company pass it along.

So what you are seeing is the beginnings of that philosophy in action.


Some other points to make - when the Anthem rep said once you left the ER, you would no longer be covered.

Right, because if the ER saw fit to discharge you and NOT admit you, they just said the emergency is over. Non-emergent care = NOT COVERED out of network. This is absolutely NOT new, this is how it has been down for the 50 years HMOs have been around. Not a loophole, just the operating rules that have always been in place.

So let’s say you break your arm falling off while competing at WEF.

Scenario #1 - bone exposed. The ambulance takes you to the ER where they quickly move you along to surgery.

ER visits - COVERED at in network level
Surgery and subsequent admission - COVERED at in network level
The surgery/admission was an emergency surgery and as such, covered at in network levels. You may get pressure to move to a par hospital once you are stabilized, but that is something you discuss with the insurance carrier and hospital.

Scenario #2 - You go into the ER, they x-ray, put a soft cast or splint on and tell you that you have a hairline fracture and to see a doctor within 2-3 days and shove you out the door. You go see everyone’s favorite Wellington orthopedic doc that has a booth at WEF’s gate (even Dr. Richy Rich can’t afford real estate AT WEF). He comes highly recommended!

ER visits - COVERED at in network levels
subsequent visit to Wellington doc? NOT COVERED, because that is not an emergency. It’s medically necessary, no doubt. But not emergent. You needed to get yourself home and see a network doc.

So yeah, if you find yourself on the road a lot for extended time, this policy might not be good for you. If you thought you’d pack up and get home to see your regular doc come hell or high water (me), it may be fine. But a POS isn’t really the answer in my opinion. It will have a huge deductible and out of pocket and you will get balance billed by the providers. If you truly think you are going to use non-emergent care outside of your home state on a regular basis, far better to get a PPO plan (muy expensive) with a national network of doctors.

[QUOTE=RugBug;7890149]
It is true that groups may still be on grandfathered plans, but it means they couldn’t make any plan changes since ACA regs starting taking affect in 2010. They would’ve just had to eat ACA cost increases (because believe me, they were built in anyway even if the plan was grandfathered) without the coverage expanding and without trying to manage costs by looking at plan design and alternative carriers. That’s some serious dedication to a grandfathered plan.[/QUOTE]

actually rugbug, grandfathering has officially expired (that was 2010-2013). We have now moved on to a new phase of confusion! Small groups have Keep What You Have (KWYH). This means even if they moved off a grandfathered plan (most have, it turns out dedication is tough), BUT they were on their ACA compliant plan (for the years 2010-2013) and they didn’t want to move to a metallic, they do not have to change until 2016. Most of them are sitting on a December renewal date, so the upshot of this is that most small groups will not move to a metallic until almost 2017.

I think the grandfathered plans by funky loophole were the ONE class that could not avoid metallics and were not eligible for KWYH, but I’m not sure about that (the company I work for made the decision to not grandfather any plans back in 2010 so that is one nightmare I have avoided. The only one.)

[QUOTE=jody jaffe;7890118]
I have no idea if this is true, because every broker, Anthem rep and Affordable Health Care rep has told me something different. And if you go to the first page, you will see what another broker wrote me, bascially that he’s getting different stories as well.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn’t fault the broker -this stuff is so incredibly complex and each situation varies due to past circumstances and phase of ACA implementation.

My job entails me working with only ONE carrier and every time I get asked a question about a specific case, I have to get its entire provenance in order to answer accurately. Being a broker entails MANY carriers and no inside knowledge as to what was done and when. It’s at best, a guess.

However the idea that once the non-ACA cases get in the system the prices will change (go up) needs to be qualified. At the time the rates were developed for 2014, everyone was under the assumption that 100% of all business WOULD fold into the 2014 version of ACA compliant plans (there are a few iterations as this rule has staged into effectiveness). It was only at the last minute that everyone learned they could KWYH for a while longer. So they were priced with the belief everyone would move into those plans even if that was not what happened.

The big unknown out there right now is when they developed the pricing methodology, were they right? The challenge with ACA is that it takes us where no rating system has gone before - subsidies mixed with private sector, guarantee issue, community rating combined with pent up demand from uninsured and under-insured coming into the system. It’s a bit of an actuarial gamble and guess as to where the price should be to account for both the pluses and minuses in the equation. But we know one of three things happened. The nailed it. Missed it high or missed it low. Actuaries? Are the right or are they the weather app? We will find out.

Check out the USEF Insurance;
http://www.equisure-inc.com/equine/article3.html

that is not medical coverage, that is P&C

DMK, really appreciate you weighing in here.

Well you clearly have more knowledge than i have. However, this is not what the Anthem reps are telling people.

I was told emphatically by one rep that any hospital stay will not be covered out of state. The next rep told me I would be covered until I was deemed stable to move, though he had no idea at whose expense this moved would be. Ie, suppose you were “stable,” with IV and horizontal, how do you travel commercially if you are say, in Alaska or Hawaii or even California (assuming you live in Va).?

My point is that I keep getting different answers from so-called insurance experts, or at least those who work for Anthem.

This, again, makes me so glad to be out of that side of the business. :slight_smile: for years I’ve only had to be familiar with a small segment of the ACA…and even that can be confusing.

My company actually had a grandfathered plan, although without no active thought of staying with it because it was grandfathered. In fact, we administered it as an ACA compliant plan and it was Anthem CA that would continue to tell us it was grandfathered. The only reason we made no changes was that it was a fantastic plan and we were able to negotiated and design a program with the help of our broker that allowed its continued offering alongside other compliant plans.

[QUOTE=DMK;7890755]
actually rugbug, grandfathering has officially expired (that was 2010-2013). We have now moved on to a new phase of confusion! Small groups have Keep What You Have (KWYH). This means even if they moved off a grandfathered plan (most have, it turns out dedication is tough), BUT they were on their ACA compliant plan (for the years 2010-2013) and they didn’t want to move to a metallic, they do not have to change until 2016. Most of them are sitting on a December renewal date, so the upshot of this is that most small groups will not move to a metallic until almost 2017.[/QUOTE]

But… I thought we were told time and time again that if you like your plan you can keep your plan.

[QUOTE=equisusan;7890417]
Ok I’ve got a question… if I currently live in Virginia but I move to Florida on Jan 4th do I get Virginia or Florida health insurance?

And if I move back to Virginia sometime during 2015 is that a problem? I have no income and the only lease I’ll have will be in Florida?

Is Florida better for health insurance than Virginia?[/QUOTE]

The safest way for you to go is with a PPO plan, but it is going to be expensive. It would be based in the state where you are considered to have your permanent residence.

You can try to get by with a POS but it’s also not cheap and you have to be sure that the billing procedures I described in my earlier post are followed to have a prayer of being considered in network.

[QUOTE=jody jaffe;7891132]
Well you clearly have more knowledge than i have. However, this is not what the Anthem reps are telling people.

I was told emphatically by one rep that any hospital stay will not be covered out of state. The next rep told me I would be covered until I was deemed stable to move, though he had no idea at whose expense this moved would be. Ie, suppose you were “stable,” with IV and horizontal, how do you travel commercially if you are say, in Alaska or Hawaii or even California (assuming you live in Va).?

My point is that I keep getting different answers from so-called insurance experts, or at least those who work for Anthem.[/QUOTE]

Well Jody, sometimes the devil is in the details. BOTH answers are correct, but they apply in different situations.

  1. You’re out of state for an extended period (ex: live 6 months in Minnesota and 6 months in Florida) and schedule the knee surgery you’ve been putting off when you are out of your home state. This in non-emergent and would not be covered.

  2. DMK’s scenario where you are riding out of state, fall off and compound fracture your arm/leg, what have you. You are taken to the ER and then admitted for surgery. This is covered at in-network benefit levels (although can still be balance billed).

Both the answers you’ve received are correct…it just depends on how the context is set up for the rep.