Heath Ryan, 2008 Australian Olympian, suspended

[OverandOnward]

‘Could you do it in Central Park?’

I don’t think everything that is helpful to horses passes the Central Park test, in front of people who don’t know horses. But maybe it’s a back-of-mind mantra that could get us to think through what is happening a bit better.

Even though this 40 whacks is not nearly as extreme as some horrible abuses in the name of ‘training’, this is still a ‘behind the barn’ moment that a trainer is unlikely to do in public, in a warm-up ring, or in front of the average lesson student or parent.

They might do it in front of more experienced learners, as a teaching moment. Thus passing down the human attitude to another generation.

If there is one thing I’ve learned over the years, if something isn’t working, STOP. Make a change!

What is repeated becomes ever more ingrained in the equine brain. (Any brain, really.) This horse is learning to resist-resist-resist even punitive urging to go forward. In fact, this horse no longer knows what the rider even wants. It’s just a beating.

If the horse isn’t changing, it is the trainer who is failing, not the horse. The horse has zero idea what are the human expectations, all the horse knows is what is happening right now. The horse doesn’t have nearly the intellect some seem to think it does.

Horses don’t know what is their expected role in their world, or what of their comfortable lifestyle depends on their behavior. It is up to us to figure out what the horse is reacting to and what/how we can change to better address the situation.

[FrittSkritt]

It’s too bad there isn’t a video of the incident without Dressage Psycho’s image and commentary overlaid on it. I don’t want to give that woman any more clicks.

[SusanO]

I suspect this behavior has stemmed out of the way the horse was ridden/ handled by its owner who is probably a lovely empathetic person. The horse is inadvertently rewarded for balky behavior and no response to the leg. And some horses have the temperament that makes this kind of reaction not unusual. So now the horse has been trained to be unresponsive and the task is to change the way the horse thinks it needs to behave under saddle. Not an easy task or a quick fix as demonstrated by this video.

I hate it when a horse is allowed to behave in a manner that is not safe for the rider/handler. Horse does not know any better - it does what it is allowed to do. But after the first few whacks Ryan, who is a skilled horse trainer, should have known that he had to take another approach because this one was not working.

[moatsngoats]

This is not an uncommon line of thinking/justification, though maybe more old-school, and I don’t think it’s entirely wrong. The thinking goes - everyone else is giving up on this horse, he’s going to be euthanized or end up in a feedlot somewhere, so I’m justified using all the tools in my arsenal to “fix” him and “save” him. In some instances, I think this thinking isn’t wrong, but there’s not a clear stopping point of “too far” when you think like this. After all, you’re “saving the horse.”

Similarly, some think you use harsh methods to make a horse “easy” or more manageable/able to be ridden by amateurs, you are doing the horse a service because ultimately it will get a plush life with a rich Ammy - versus dead or in a feedlot. And similarly, not entirely wrong. Personally this didn’t shock me and doesn’t really offend my senses - I was expecting (and indeed have witnessed) a lot worse. But I am glad he was suspended and I think this style of training should become a thing of the past. I think there needs to be a shift in mindset of accepting when horses aren’t cut out for certain things, and accepting euthanasia as a humane option for some horses (as I would also never give a horse away or “rehome” - too many horror stories).

[BuckleIn2021]

So I’m Australian and I signed back in here after a long break just to respond to this. This video comes as no surprise. Heath Ryan is a narcissist of the highest order. He used and abused his position on Equestria Australia for years. He had a column called “Ryan’s Rave” which used to throw out all kinds of rubbish. He joined the class action against the Australian government post our eradication of equine flu in 2007 - crying that they were too slow to roll out vaccination, and he had lost a million dollars. THEN he refused to continue vaccinating against Hendra virus, a disease which can spread from humans to people and in people has a 67% case fatality rate. He is and always has been “all about him”. Take a look at older videos of him riding in dressage competitions - heavy hands and tension across the board.

[Clemfandango]

I have the sweetest, most forgiving ( but also kinda lazy mare). If I did that to her she would lawn dart me before I knew what happened, and would hate me forever.

I’m a newbie in comparison to a lot of folks, having only started riding in my 30’s, but even I can see that if a horse is that shut down you have to go back to the VERY BEGINNING. Like colt starting level very beginning. There is NO EXCUSE for this.

Edit: even a lowly beginner like me ( only riding for 9 years) can see that if your escalating to that level and it’s not working you need to try something else, and take several steps back. I lesson with an FEI judge and former 4 star level eventer and I’ve never EVER seen things escalate close to that when I’ve watched her work younger or any horses for that matter. If I can see that then its not cool.

[tabula_rashah]

Old-school and tradition as reasons/ methods of training really need to just be taken out with the garbage. As soon as someone says either buzzword you know it’s just an attempted justification for not knowing and doing better.

I’m curious about this horse’s so called dangerous behavior because he is clearly exhibiting a ton of chill here- I don’t know many horses who would take that kind of beating with just some little kicks

I’m getting to the point where I want nothing to do with most of the show world

[AmmyHour926]

Did we watch the same video? I find this just as bad as the Andrew McConnon videos. Honestly worse, because this response was practiced and calculated, not a fit of rage (which also doesn’t justify it).

[endlessclimb]

I don’t think that either are ok, but I do see the difference between a far overzealous attempt to get a horse forward, and punching a horse in the side of the head repeatedly for a reason they (and I) don’t understand.

I have about a million questions, like “how was Nico on the ground? Did anyone install voice cues to try and help him out here?” I didn’t hear any clucking, smooching, any sort of more positive cues to go forward. He does look like he’s learned to say no, but non-stop beating is not the way to re-teach that.

[AmmyHour926]

Calling it at overzealous attempt to get a horse forward feels like an understatement. If it didn’t work after 10 tries, its probably not going to work after 40.

Clearly I don’t condone either, but this thread generally (not you specifically) is shockingly dismissive of Heath’s tactics here.

[McGurk]

Thank you, as always, to @Texarkana and @Beowulf for articulating my thoughts so precisely.

Should this be permitted and excused? NO.

Do I understand how the horse and trainer got to this point? Sadly, yes.

Do I believe the horse was becoming dangerous for his ammy rider because of his refusal to go forward? Yes, absolutely.

Do I think this horse could have been rehabbed with a longer, moderate and less abusive approach? Also yes.

But do I have a tiny bit of sympathy for a pro who is trying to fix a horse in a hurry to send it back to its ammy owner a safer ride? Yes, because I used to get sent horses like this frequently. But my real issue with this is, if you “fix” the horse by beating it to go forward, how long is that fix going to hold when the horse goes back to ineffectual ammy? IME, about 3 rides, no longer. Which makes this absolutely abusive, because the “fix” will have to be repeated.

[endlessclimb]

That’s probably because spanking a horse is a generally accepted way to deal with a nappy horse. He took it way too far, no doubt, but the base method is accepted.

Punching a horse in the side of the head is not an accepted training method of anything.

[Live_Wire]

I don’t see the whip? Am I missing something?

Echoing @Texarkana and @beowulf - I don’t agree with this approach, but I understand what the intention was. A shut down horse that has no reaction can get dangerous very quickly.

Playing devil’s advocate, who knows what type of options this horse had. To change this type of behavior does require a breakthrough. Are there kinder ways to approach it? Yes - but that takes time. Time we don’t know if this horse had. Slaughter is legal in Australia. Death is a very real threat.

[Live_Wire]

@beowulf

But… I also worry about how social media will influence training in the future.

THIS. I personally had this thought cross my mind just the other day. I have a horse here who has a lot of trauma about the trailer, thus won’t load. IMO, loading amicably is a safety tool all horses must have installed - regardless of their job. What happens if there’s an emergency, vet can’t come out, and the horse has to go to the clinic? What about an evacuation? This horse has learned every evasion trick in the book and it is UGLY. Unfortunately, we have to patiently work through the ugly to help him see it’s okay. There was no beating involved, there wasn’t a whip around. There was a rope halter and a training lead. When we made progress in one place, he would try something different to get away. He was scared and dangerous. Sometimes we had to be loud with our body language. At one point, when we were letting him rest I caught my neighbors watching from a distance. I am sure I was doing right by the horse in front of me, but my neighbors couldn’t hear the casual conversations happening while we were letting him feel his feelings because we know he’s scared but we don’t know why he’s scared and we can’t process for him. They saw him rear and strike at our heads, but they don’t know that that was his fear response to the trailer. They don’t know that we didn’t do something to create that response. It’s so tricky. It’s a tricky world.

[Texarkana]

@AmmyHour926

ling it at overzealous attempt to get a horse forward feels like an understatement. If it didn’t work after 10 tries, its probably not going to work after 40.

Clearly I don’t condone either, but this thread generally (not you specifically) is shockingly dismissive of Heath’s tactics here.

Am I being dismissive? Maybe. But in my mind, truly dismissive would be thinking it’s okay. I don’t think it’s okay. I agree it is a sanctionable offense.

But I watch this video and can appreciate what was happening and what he was trying to accomplish. I can also appreciate that it was a mistake in judgement. He kept on too long and with too much pressure. I don’t know how Heath trains horses regularly-- maybe this is normal for him, or maybe it was a one time mistake. I also don’t know anything else about this horse except that Heath described him as so difficult he was at risk of heading to the slaughterhouse. Whether that description is accurate, who knows. But I can recognize that he was addressing a situation in what likely started as a pretty typical and fair method, but it escalated to a battle that went on too long.

That’s different to me than someone punching a horse in the head after a fence or beating the horse in the face with a stick. None of these situations are okay, but those latter two are purely emotional and never were going to teach the horse anything. Heath, on the other hand, was addressing a problem in a manner that is frequently effective and fair, but continued way too long and with too much force when it didn’t work as expected.

[Aussie_2020]

It’s depressing, in this time of training methods, that so many see the justification of hitting a horse that isn’t “doing what it’s told”. Makes me think a whole lot of ‘trainers’ need to be re-trained.

[Texarkana]

@Aussie_2020

It’s depressing, in this time of training methods, that so many see the justification of hitting a horse that isn’t “doing what it’s told”. Makes me think a whole lot of ‘trainers’ need to be re-trained.

Where do you see this justification?

I don’t think anyone is justifying it.

Like, when I start an unbroke horse, I teach them voice commands on the ground, then when I begin riding, I combine voice commands with leg. But sometimes with the new weight of a rider, voice alone doesn’t get the job done, so a well-timed follow up with a whip is beneficial. A tap or tickle- enough to surprise them forward a little bit so you can reward the action.

If a horse is stuck and refuses to move forward, whether on the ground or under saddle, a gentle and repeated “tap tap tap” on their hind end and instant cessation when they go forward is very effective.

And like any aids, if the horse ignores the aid, you increase the pressure. That doesn’t mean you spank the horse, but that gentle tickle or tap can get a little stronger if needed.

If anyone has a problem with the above training methods, I am kind of at a loss of how to continue the conversation. I am open to alternatives, but I don’t think using the whip gently as an extension of your body is automatically unfair.

Now, Heath took it too far. And he was rightly punished for that.

[steelerino]

Charlotte went after a horse with a whip to motivate it to move forward and she received death threats. Heath hits horse 40 times with a whip because it won’t move forward and suddenly he’s saving it’s life. Charlotte should have told that story. The internet is an interesting place.

[endlessclimb]

They’re both wrong, but the situations were not even in the ballpark in similarity. One horse WAS going forward and was being beaten anyways.

[RhythmNCruise]

It’s inexcusable, and Heath Ryan’s bullshit attempt at justifying his abusive tactics is outrageous.

He says the horse wanted for nothing, had a lovely life (living in solitude, wearing blankets, and being ridden a lot…my horse would like to speak to Nico and tell him what he’s missing out on). He was supposedly so “loved.” So loved that if he didn’t get his ass in gear and do what his riders wanted him to do, they were going to sent him to the slaughterhouse. Nice.

There are a lot of jackasses riding at the top levels of equestrian sports, and this fool seems to be no exception.

That’s my two cents.

I watched something the other day that said in studies on gastric ulcers, race horses and dressage horses were at the top of the list.

I remember growing up believing that dressage was all about harmony and slowly building a strong, healthy, willing equine partner. Boy…either that was a big ol’ lie I had been sold or times really have changed. It’s sad to see.