When you canter without stirrups, what happens to your lower leg? Does it swing? I had this problem for a long time and it comes from pinching at the knee. If you’re trying to keep your toes out and it’s not your natural “conformation” that could be part of the problem.
Another thing to keep in mind… you are doing a lot of other sports. How often do you ride? Developing a good canter seat takes hundreds of hours. Literally. So don’t beat yourself up if you don’t get it right away
I don’t know if this well help you at all, but as a long time “can’t keep heels down” rider, the thing that helped me most was stop thinking about my heels as a separate body part and more of an after affect of proper lower leg position. I found an article Jim Wofford had written about the lower leg. He mentioned your lower leg involves applying the entire lower leg from the knee down using the long bone that runs down from the inside of your knee to your ankle instead of just putting the calf muscle there which is the wrong orientation. Once I started making a conscious effort to use that inner long bone when cantering/jumping the heels stayed down on their own. I can’t really explain it much better than that, but just play with what part of your lower leg you are using to ride with and see which orientation translates down to your heels. It’s worked for me. I’m just not entirely what I did.
Quote Originally Posted by Angelico View Post
What kind of athlete? Other than gymnastics, few other sports require the core strength it takes to become an effective rider. /quote
I am a swimmer, field hockey player, and lacrosse player. I am not one of those people who sit on a couch and say they are an athlete…
um yeah, but what we are trying to say is that just because you can run doesn’t mean you have a strong core. Lots of very athletic people have cores that aren’t strong enough to ride well. Unless you are doing pilates or special ab exercises regularly it would be surprising to find your core was strong just from the sports you list. People engage in all sorts of antics in the saddle to try to compensate for a weak core- they grip with the knees, they curl forwards, they jam their legs down.
Check whether the soles of your boots are worn.
Make sure the stirrup pads are not slippery/worn, but are grippy.
I once had a trainer teach me to ride with my toes in, too. That lead to me pinching with the knees, which does cause the leg to creep up and out of the stirrups. Stay w the new trainer and keep working on fixing your leg position. Eventually it will get better. I still often have to remind myself to keep my leg long and my knee relaxed and open.
Toes in does not equate to pinching with the knee if you’re gripping properly and evenly through the calf and thigh. In reality the knee doesn’t even particularly need to have much contact at all to keep a proper position. My trainer teaches toe forward but knee off the saddle - and my old trainer actually taught to grip with the knee which led to a lot of pinching, leg swinging and leg off the horse. Toes in trainer had a fun time correcting that 
OP, assuming you have checked saddle fit and stirrup length I would canter around in two point and (perhaps counterintuitively?) canter without stirrups and get the motion and seat and understanding of where your leg should be and lengthen the thigh and calf. Also, what does your trainer say?
[QUOTE=Across Sicily;7871874]
Toes in does not equate to pinching with the knee if you’re gripping properly and evenly through the calf and thigh. In reality the knee doesn’t even particularly need to have much contact at all to keep a proper position. My trainer teaches toe forward but knee off the saddle - and my old trainer actually taught to grip with the knee which led to a lot of pinching, leg swinging and leg off the horse. Toes in trainer had a fun time correcting that
OP, assuming you have checked saddle fit and stirrup length I would canter around in two point and (perhaps counterintuitively?) canter without stirrups and get the motion and seat and understanding of where your leg should be and lengthen the thigh and calf. Also, what does your trainer say?[/QUOTE]
My new trainer wants my leg more under me. She says I am jamming my heels down so far that my leg is swinging forward. Also from riding with my toes so far in, above my leg and above my leg is extremely sore.
[QUOTE=wendy;7871545]
um yeah, but what we are trying to say is that just because you can run doesn’t mean you have a strong core. Lots of very athletic people have cores that aren’t strong enough to ride well. Unless you are doing pilates or special ab exercises regularly it would be surprising to find your core was strong just from the sports you list. People engage in all sorts of antics in the saddle to try to compensate for a weak core- they grip with the knees, they curl forwards, they jam their legs down.[/QUOTE]
I am not saying that I get my abs from the running…I get them from the swimming. If you dont believe that does anything, look it up. Its one of the best sports.
It sounds like you are putting too much emphasis on getting your heel down and are ending up pushing your leg forward, likely cause your stirrups to slip off the top of your foot. Try to keep your leg underneath your body and just behind the girth (think of drawing a straight line from your heel to your back). You could also try lengthening your stirrups a hole or two to make it more difficult for you to brace with your foot against the stirrup. Working without stirrups will also help strengthen your core and your legs. The muscle development needed for effective riding is very different than what’s needed for running or swimming.
Heels down
Hello, at the risk of causing an uproar, heels down is the common advise but the reality is that your weight and center of balance for your feet to remain in the stirrups is the ball of your foot. You weight your ball and your heels will go down. This trend of teaching people to “weight their heels” without telling them that they have to weight their ball means that they are riding backwards and out of balance. And for those who will disagree with me, I have been riding for 55 years and my heels are down but my balance and my weight is in the ball of my foot. I rarely lose my stirrups whether I am cross countering, hunting or jumping. So don’t think about putting your weight and your balance in your heel so much as the ball of your foot. Also, it does help if you use old fashioned non-wiggly stirrups.
Try shortening your stirrups. Also try moving the stirrup leather back on the stirrup bar. ( A bit of radiator hose will work for this). If the geometry is wrong for your femur length your feet will often float forward and up. If you move the stirrup back under your butt, it fixes lots of issues…
It’s a 2 minute fix to test this out. And costs about a quarter.
Lots and lots of half-seat riding! Lots! and don’t think “Heels down”, think “Toes up” and let your weight fall naturally along your leg and out your heel. You want your upper body weight to not end up in the saddle but to flow through your hips and into your leg. Good luck!
I had a lot of ankle pan until I switched over to the jointed stirrups, Herm Sprenger. I also got the wrap around pads because I was always losing my stirrups. these things really helped me. A slightly shorter stirrup length might also help. And lots of two point
Try this: Stand on a stair with the ball of your foot on the edge, and let your heel drop until you feel a stretch in your calf. Keep your knee straight. Next, gently bend your knee – the stretching sensation should move from your calf to your soleus muscle, which is the muscle that most riders don’t pay enough attention to but is really important in keeping your heel down properly. Stretching and strengthening the soleus will help you not just keep your heel down, but your lower leg more stable.
Rubberbands! Works for the contesting kids! :lol::lol:
Advice from a (mostly) reformed knees-and-toes-holding-onto-horse-for-dear-life rider: ride without stirrups esp. at canter until you find the balance and figure out how to not hold yourself on, post at the canter until your legs are going to fall off and then go for another lap, stand on your toes for a lap or two every ride so you have flexion in your ankles again (It is possible to have your heels too far down which is almost as bad as not at all down.), and put your stirrups two or three holes too short because it will show you when you grip with your knees AND teach you to balance all at once, and turn your toes out to a 45 degree angle with the horse.
I switched trainers two years ago from one that also preached toes in and spent the first three months doing nothing but flatwork on this exact issue. The above exercises are what worked for me, and I hope they help you out some too! Oh, but don’t try them all at once please! (I expect trying to post at the canter with stirrups two holes too short while standing on your toes and trying to turn your toes out just might be counter-productive! :wink grin:)
Good luck and happy rides!
ETA: When your heels are too far down (I’ve heard it called hyper-extended?) they don’t anchor your position like they should and they cease to act as shock-absorbers. You can, in fact, ride with an otherwise correct and effective position with hyper-extended heels, but it will cause you to lose feeling in your toes, etc. and it is more difficult to do so. I’ve been told also that it gets to be painful when landing from big jumps (grande prix, etc.)
I think the advise on stretching out your Achilles tendon is helpful, along with anything else you might do. My muscles and tendons tend to get “tight” so I incorporate daily ( nearly!) stretching into my at home routine. I can certainly tell the difference before and during and after the ride. Do you wear high heels? Those tend to shorten your Achilles tendon and could be part of a problem in keeping heels down. I essentially threw out all my heels when I realized they were bad for my riding- no heels for me anymore! :winkgrin:
I was having problems with my feet hurting/going numb in the stirrups. The pain would last for days.
My pain/numbness went away when I switched from the Fillis stirrups to the old fashioned “Prussian sided” stirrups. I went from thinking I would have to stop riding because of the lasting pain to great comfort for my feet, and my feet no longer get numb. A lot of my problems with keeping my feet in the stirrups was because it HURT MY FEET to keep them in the Fillis type stirrups.
Sounds like you are pushing your heels down not allowing the weight to sink down through your calf. Practice two point, don’t push your heel down, let your weight sink. Making sure the stirrup is running from ball of your big toe to ball of baby toe. (If your foot is too far in or you are fighting the way your leg wants to hang by turning toes in, you may be cutting down the blood flow.)
I also take my feet out of the stirrups on walk breaks and rotate/stretch my ankles.
I hear your pain. I used to have a coach repeat and repeat toes in. This caused me a lot of pain. In reality your toes should point slightly out to create a good base of support and keep your calf on the horse.
(May try tossing in some lunge lessons, ditch your stirrups and hook up a grab strap, this is really beneficial)
Good luck.
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