Help, Buyer Threats

[RoyalRain42]

I’ll try to keep it somewhat quick as I am slightly panicking.

Sold a gelding back around Christmas of 2017. I had him broke to the trails, nice hunting mount used him for deer and elk season. Rode nice but was not for a beginner rider. Advertised him as intermediate level and up and as a good trail horse. Had videos and pictures of me swimming him, riding him in hard terrain, all the works.

lady and her husband fall In love. Passes thr PPE no issues . She had just had surgery so I rode him around just showed her what I could around the house. I even said I could show her more out in the brush but they liked what they saw. Paid for him then and came back a week later to get him. Said they had been riding for years done so much they sounded like an amazing home for him.

Got told they made it home, never heard a thing again.

till this morning. Like 9 months later.

and she is threatening to sue me for selling he, a dangerous horse.

she claims he does not know what any tack is, only let’s people sit on him, panics about things. That he is dangerous and I lied to sell him to her. About how she wants her money back(full price) and me to come get the horse. Hiw if she does not hear from me I will be served papers. How i am lucky that she does not sue for all the experts and trainers she had look at the horse. That horse sellers like me are the scum of the earth and all that nasty stuff. Apparently all thr videos I have of him can be used against me in court and we obviously fake. Threatening to tell everyone and anyone about how dishonest I am and should never be trusted.

needless to say reading that first thing in the am is a great way to start the day. I have no idea what she has done with him or what has happened to him. I was taking this gelding swimming in lakes Miles away from the house. How could a green broke dangerous animal help pack out some elk quarters??? I am just shocked they loved what they had seen when I showed him to them. I have no idea if he is sound, if he is in decent shape or anything else. No info other than this.

does she really have a leg to stand on taking me to civil court like she is threatening? Or buyers remorse months later and trying to scare me into giving in? I am planning to make a call to our family lawyer, once he is back in office tomorrow but this has me so nerved up.

sorry if it is a bit confusing, I am a mess. First horse I have ever tried to sell.

[Arelle]

Two separate issues.

One: what does your contract say? Most horse sales are “as-is”. I seriously doubt you have anything to be worried about nine months later. They probably misrepresented themselves.

Two: If you’re worried about the horse - if he’s lame, if he’s underweight, if he isn’t being taken care of properly, etc. then you are welcome to buy him back, but you are probably under no obligation to do so.

[RoyalRain42]

@Arelle

Two separate issues.

One: what does your contract say? Most horse sales are “as-is”. I seriously doubt you have anything to be worried about nine months later. They probably misrepresented themselves.

Two: If you’re worried about the horse - if he’s lame, if he’s underweight, if he isn’t being taken care of properly, etc. then you are welcome to buy him back, but you are probably under no obligation to do so.

He was sold as is, and that all I asked for was to be notified if she ever sold gun.

I am debating if I can, but if he is broke down and a mess then he would not be worth what I sold him for by any means. But I am going to see what the lawyer says, and go from there on potentially getting here to the new ranch.

[trubandloki]

That does sound like a horrible way to start the day.

I am glad you are going to talk to your lawyer, that way you will know what your legal requirements in this situation are (instead of what a bunch of strangers on the internet tell you).

Generally speaking I think in a situation like this what you are legally required to do might be very different than what you might want to do if you are that worried about the horse itself.
If you want to make sure this horse is OK and lands softly it might be worth just buying him back and giving him whatever care he needs to get back to the great horse you sold them.

Otherwise I think they do not have a leg to stand on. They did a PPE and it has been nine months.

[blitzkrieg]

I would be absolutely shocked if you have anything to actually worry about here. It’s been 9 months, there’s video footage, they did a PPE and appear to have been transparent by showing them his abilities under saddle. They’ve been fine with this horse for a very long tine to suddenly have an issue.

Just an FYI “riding for years” means nothing. There are people that have owned horses for 20+ years in their backyard that know little beyond the basics of how to keep a horse breathing. You can be able to sit on a forgiving horse and perform a w/t/c without much instruction.

I wouldn’t respond to the threats until you’ve discussed this with an attorney. If you’re worried about him ending up in another bad situation, talk to your attorney about potentially offering a price above what they could get from a dealer/kill buyer.

[2tempe]

OP - no advice, really, but a story: I was in a similar situation, years ago as the buyer. 6 yr old dressage horse, as time when by after bringing him home, various behaviors unfolded, afraid of things that made no sense, over the top reactions, spook, spin, bolted on the lunge line EVERY time, on and on. I spent a year trying to work thru stuff, finally gave up. Could barely find a pro to sit on him. Called seller, explained that things weren’t working out. (no legal threats). She very kindly offered to take him back and resell; would charge me board but no training. I jumped at that and she sold him a few months later to a working student, big loss but gone.
Fast forward a couple years, I ran into his sire’s owner; she knew of the horse and told me that he was started as a jumper and “overfaced to the point of abuse” before going to the dressage barn. That answered a lot of questions.

You might want to think about something similar to the offer she made me. Obviously would depend on a lot of things, and the horse’s condition, but just a thought.

[danacat]

@RoyalRain42

God I am so worried they did something to him…

I’d be worried too – and would try to lay eyes on the horse immediately to see if he is okay; do some spying; and/or show up at their house with my attorney. If these people are capable of making volitile threats, then who knows how they treat horses.

But it does sound like a case of buyer’s remorse – they are now financially strapped or have health issues or found a horse they like better, and need to ditch your guy ASAP. Good thing they didn’t just decide to sell him up the river, but they probably thought they’d get the $$$ faster by threatening you with the ‘bad horse’ sale scenario.

For the horse’s sake, are you in a position to take him back?

[clanter]

get an attorney that understands Idaho livestock laws, here in Texas it is clear cut Buyer Beware and that is backed up by Texas law (Texas Uniform Commercial Code Section 2.316) elsewhere the sale often falls under the Uniform Commercial Code which differs state-to-state

A seller—particularly a professional horseman who is covered by the U.C.C. or Uniform Commercial Code—must provide a warranty of merchantability for each horse sold.

That is, the horse must be reasonably sound and free of defects. The horse should also be fit for the purpose that the buyer tells the seller that the horse will be used for.

http://lisasmithlaw.com/media/HorseBuyersBeware1.pdf

[TheJenners]

People suck

[gottagrey]

I don’t think woman has a case either, she didn’t even sit on horse to ride him. If anything I’d offer to take the horse back not buy him back unless it’s reasonable Generally if a seller is going to sell a “bad” horse the buyer will find out about its badness within a month or two (or sooner). I could see giving money back withing 90 days but not 9 months. Best of luck and keep us posted on how it turns out.

[RoyalRain42]

@2tempe

OP - no advice,really, but a story: I was in a similar situation, years ago as the buyer. 6 yr old dressage horse, as time when by after bringing him home, various behaviors unfolded, afraid of things that made no sense, over the top reactions, spook, spin, bolted on the lunge line EVERY time, on and on. I spent a year trying to work thru stuff, finally gave up. Could barely find a pro to sit on him. Called seller, explained that things weren’t working out. (no legal threats). She very kindly offered to take him back and resell; would charge me board but no training. I jumped at that and she sold him a few months later to a working student, big loss but gone.
Fast forward a couple years, I ran into his sire’s owner; she knew of the horse and told me that he was started as a jumper and “overfaced to the point of abuse” before going to the dressage barn. That answered a lot of questions.

You might want to think about something similar to the offer she made me. Obviously would depend on a lot of things, and the horse’s condition, but just a thought.

If she had not come at me like she has this morning I would have been happy to work with her. But it is so out of the blue and so volatile I lost a lot of respect for her. I would have happily helped her with problems had she contacted me sooner and polite.

[RoyalRain42]

@danacat

I’d be worried too – and would try to lay eyes on the horse immediately to see if he is okay; do some spying; and/or show up at their house with my attorney. If these people are capable of making volitile threats, then who knows how they treat horses.

But it does sound like a case of buyer’s remorse – they are now financially strapped or have health issues or found a horse they like better, and need to ditch your guy ASAP. Good thing they didn’t just decide to sell him up the river, but they probably thought they’d get the $$$ faster by threatening you with the ‘bad horse’ sale scenario.

For the horse’s sake, are you in a position to take him back?

I want to say she is roughly 12 hours from me, if driving to get a look was an easy option I would be on the road tomorrow with the attorney. Thankfully he is a horse person as well.

I know I could easily bring him back here if it was settled upon. I have the pen space and supplies to do so.

she made it aoud like she was trying to be nice buy letting me buy the horse back. That her lawyer said that she should not even offer that and just serve papers.

[RoyalRain42]

@gottagrey

I don’t think woman has a case either, she didn’t even sit on horse to ride him. If anything I’d offer to take the horse back not buy him back unless it’s reasonable Generally if a seller is going to sell a “bad” horse the buyer will find out about its badness within a month or two (or sooner). I could see giving money back withing 90 days but not 9 months. Best of luck and keep us posted on how it turns out.

That was my thoughts, if she had problems I feel like she would have gotten a hold of me sooner? Or made some kind of contact before this.

[TCA_Arabians]

If your priority is the happiness of the horse - open a discussion about buying him back. I’d think about putting that in writing along with affirmative statements about the PPE and the 9 months clearly demonstrating that she got a sound horse. I’d also state firmly that any actions on her part to defame or libel you will be referred to your attorney.

I had what I referred to as my “Black Beauty” clause in my sale contracts. It was a right-of-first-refusal should the horse be sold. I didn’t want any of them to go to auction or slaughter.

If her call is on your machine, save it. You might also discuss with your attorney a clause in any contract of repurchase that obligates this lunatic to refunding a portion of the purchase price should you discover that the horse has been abused, etc. Really a shame. Sounds like you gave this guy a great start. Sounds like you had a buyer that bought more horse than she could handle. good luck.

[TequilaMockingbird]

Short of them proving you were outright deceptive (like bribing the vet to have the horse pass the PPE), she doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

The most I would do is offer to take the horse back for free or at meat price. And only after having my attorney write up a contract where they waive further rights to sue or seek further compensation and specifically stating that your doing so is not an admission wrong doing.

[Sabino]

I would call her bluff. I’m assuming you have all those videos still that show she is completely and utterly full of sh!t.

[JustTheTicket]

I hope you still have all the videos of him. Unless you’re a special effects wiz, I really doubt you took the time to create a fake video of the horse. That should help prove that the horse is what he was advertised to be. What they’ve done to him in the 9 months since is on them.

[mydogs]

I’ve seen something like this happen to a boarder. She bought a horse who was clearly not a good fit for her. She was too timid and he needed a confident rider. He wasn’t 100% bombproof, but he was pretty darn quiet for my standards.

Anyways, over time it became more evident that those two made each other’s flaws worse. When he did the smallest spook, she would start screaming. Obviously, that made it worse for the horse and it just escalated from there. As time went on, both horse and rider regressed in training. Even with the horse in professional training, sessions with the owner could make things worse for the horse.

This person also wanted to sue the owners because she believes the horse was not represented correctly. I, personally, don’t think that was the case.

The whole point of this was to give you an idea of what MAY have happened with your former horse, especially if you have to go to court.

[RoyalRain42]

@JustTheTicket

I hope you still have all the videos of him. Unless you’re a special effects wiz, I really doubt you took the time to create a fake video of the horse. That should help prove that the horse is what he was advertised to be. What they’ve done to him in the 9 months since is on them.

They are all public videos on my facebook page, they can be viewed by anyone along with his original sale add. The are all taken out on the trail and by me. Most of them were taken in the form of a gopro while out adventuring. Even videos of hin swimming and laying down on command. Anyone can view then and see them.

[HPFarmette]

I hope there is a happy ending to this, both for OP and the horse.