Help in controlling spooks

Phinneas, I’m so glad to hear that :D.

As you can likely tell, I have zero patience for someone backpedaling on their own path to success, seemingly backing away from any and all paths to change…when they asked for help, for input, and got well thought out, reasonable suggestions.

It was not important to me that you take my specific advise, not at all, actually. It was important to me that you see there were options and ways to get better and happier riding out safely.

Too often someone asks for help, recieves some great information, then just as quickly says yeah well I’m not going to do any of that, ha ha ha. I’m not picking at you, this is a sore point for me and that’s my problem, not yours :cool: It’s frustrating to the giver, though it really shouldn’t be…if the asker wants to walk away and change nothing, that’s really their choice to make and do so freely.

Anyway that’s my confessional I suppose: I really love to help people, and offer things only where I feel really confident in what I’m sharing. To have it - not my own, but all suggestions…tossed off because the questioner isn’t ready to change- well, that should not be my problem, but I tend to make it mine :wink:

I’ll step out of the confessional booth now :wink:

This is a great thread. Does anyone have any advice on how to “spook train” for true surprises? My gelding is fine with tarps, deer and other animals (when he sees them, even when they are running), bags, bells, sounds, birds, odd looking things we come upon like old appliances in the woods :wink: He’ll walk through and past most anything. He is very “been there done that” on the trail. But I have had 2 instances where sleeping deer have leaped out of tall grass which he was not fine with. Normal reaction - he spooks - jumps to one side when he is completely startled (as would I!) We wear a bell necklace but these deer didn’t hear us until we were about 10 feet away. I know it’s normal and natural, but wondering if anyone has ever trained through true “surprises” and really set up some “surprises” in the ring or elsewhere?

Tpup, I think of it this way. I can know I’m the only person at home, and I’ve got windows open, and it’s windy. I STILL jump when the wind slams a door shut.

In short, no :wink: I expect 99.9% of horses can learn to booger and hold it 99.9% of the time. My superbrave TWH dumped my SO when a passel of bedded down deer popped up in some thick stuff…chip pivoted and whoa’d…Drake just get left where the horse used to be LOL - leaving me laughing so hard…safely 40 or so feet back…that I nearly dumped myself off my own horse :wink:

I don’t worry about this. One of these days it may well be on this trail…but hey, there’s worse ways to go :smiley:

Katarine, where are you? those pics and cabin are beautiful. I’m leaving today to ride with you.

LOL I wish that was home :wink: every summer Mr Kat and I visit the best peeps on the planet, a couple who live in MT. This was our best visit yet. We gathered them up, their horses, and borrowed a few to spare LOL, and rented a FS cabin just NW of Yellowstone for a week of backcountry riding and epxloring. I need to load the rest of the pics, those are just a hint at the amazing week we had.

That’s some serious riding country. When I was taking pics the drop off was irrelevant. I can’t lie, it gave me the willies when I started really thinking about it. Not for spooking- just in general. There are stretches of avalanche wash where the path is just about 2’ wide and nothing but a shelf of rocks on more rocks. Awesome :wink:

I’m in Alabam, it’s not nearly so fabulous down here :wink:

Hay

Maybe a bucking strap would help. I ride in an Abetta Endurance and use a bucking strap. When on the trail, I literally ride with hands on that and reins. My horse side steps, I’m with him. That bucking strap will help build your confidence because it’s basically a hold-on handle. As you realize you’re not going to fall off, your fear will subside and then your horses will too.

Ummm… be careful with nomenclature … bucking strap = http://philadelphia.about.com/od/southjersey/ss/cowtown_rodeo_9.htm
a wide strap around the back of a bull or horse to MAKE them buck.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle_bronc

Whereas a GRAB STRAP on an English saddle, http://www.smartpakequine.com/productclass.aspx?productClassid=2445
or stirrup leather around the neck would afford a little more security.
Too bad it’s called a “bucking strap” in SOME english tack catalogs. Very poor descriptor… :wink:

Thanks! Yeah, this last herd of deer had my horse out from under me in NO time. I landed in the tall grass - nice soft landing. It happened SO fast. It was a great wake up call though. I had become so complacent because he is generally so “spookless”. I do have a grab strap - I’ll be holding it or at least have a few fingers looped through from now on!..okay - I’m going to look at those MT pictures now. I dream of going there one day! :slight_smile:

Hay

Gabz: You’re right! Grab strap, grab strap, grab strap…

I have to remember that. We’ve been calling them bucking straps for years. But in actuality, they really are “grab” straps.

Thanks again

I’m learning alot from these posts. Thank you all so much. Gabz, I love the suggestions you gave for dragging things along with the horse, and hanging things up around the arena (just have to make sure that it’s not when someone is jumping a course!). And I do have a grap strap–good suggestion for extra security. Once I brought an umbrella with me to the barn, and open and closed it in front of my mare. She jumped back at first, but after a few times, it didn’t phase, and she, in fact, picked it up and started swinging it around herself! Clever girl!!

Riding IS all about building trust with with horse, and finding a balance that fine line between relaxation and awareness–maybe it’s relaxed awareness of one’s surroundings. I tend to get tense easily in any stressful situation (including in non-horsey situations), so I really have to work extra hard to stay relaxed when riding. (I alway overthink everything!)

And I know when my horse is comforted by me and when she isn’t quite sure I’m there for her. I also know I will have to continue to push myself outside of my comfort zone, because I don’t want to be restricted to the riding ring, and my horse doesn’t either. It may be a very long road, but I’m going to crawl my way toward it with my girl because I do love her dearly! Thanks again everyone. And for those of you working on the same issues as me, I’m right there with you!

Phinneas - yes indeed it is a long road and that’s something that SO many forget. When people compliment me on my QH - they don’t always know that I bought him cheaply because he was bucking people off and was jumpy and spooky, yada yada. Essence of time - for both horse and rider.
Baby steps. : ) He WAS, however, the horse that other horses trusted implicitly… we used him to teach the young horses.

The clinicians have you believe that it takes only a few days!! wrong. I was watching Clinton Anderson last night and he was working on retraining an OTTB. he was on day 4 and the horse was doing marvelously accepting a huge western saddle and Clinton waving things all around him. Clinton had not yet backed him. He says it takes 90 days of work to get the horse ready for discipline training - jumping, dressage, cow work, etc. And that’s with at least 5 days out of every 7 of ground work, riding, etc. for several hours EACH DAY. something most of us can’t do with our schedules.

My mantra with the “kids” was when things got tense they had to stop and take in a huge breath and then exhale enough to blow out the candles on my birthday cake (theoretically) and of course - I was OLD OLD OLD to them (like 45-50 years old at the time… ha ha ha) so… when you get tense - EXHALE. : ) let your worries flow out through your legs and heels.

I have a very hot and spooky arab halter bred horse. VERY hyper-aware of EVERYTHING. All hail to Gastrogard, things have improved exponentially. But the mare will probably always be hot and spooky. That’s her nature.

I love John Lyons and I practice his techniques a lot. I’m not a NH kind of person, and I like classical dressage training, but some of his techniques just make sense.

My horse is also one that will spook even when I’m sitting deep and relaxing, focusing on deep, smooth breathing, etc. I’ll be enjoying the beauty around me, so focused and relaxed, and she just JUMPS like something grabbed her. Not bad spooks like turn and burn, but just a whole body flinch, or a shy.

We have private trails with no road crossings for miles. I go out on one of my other mares, pony the Arab along, and then turn her loose. She goes right in front, and leads the whole trail. It is SO good for her mind. But in a 2 hour ride, she’ll do a whole body flinch and jump at least 3 or 4 times. So I KNOW that it’s just the horse’s personality, since she has no influence at all coming from me or the other horse. We’re all 3 just plugging along and she’ll just FLINCH really hard at nothing.

Breeding and genetics play a role. Some people say if you’re a really good rider, or you really have confidence or know what you’re doing that your horse will completely stop this. That’s crap. Horses are horses, and they all have SOME bad habit, or tendency. Some crib, some run from you, some buck, some some shake their head, some bite, some kick, some are girthy, some spook. That’s just the way it is.

I am learning to take it in stride and not let it shake my confidence or scare me because I relate it to riding with someone in the car. You’re sitting in the passenger seat reading a magazine or gazing out the window, and you hit a bump. A pothole, whatever. It jars you a little bit, but you’re not in any distinct danger. You’re not hurt. It’s nothing to worry about. It just happens. When I ride my Arab, the body flinch just happens. I’m not in danger. I’m not hurt. Nothing to worry about. I just imagine that it was a pothole I hit in my car, or I had to hit the breaks for a deer. No big deal - you just continue on.

Something to remember: My horse has been desensitized until there is nothing left to desensitize her from. I have literally done everything you can imagine. BUT - she will STILL jump in place at a red leaf hanging from a bush amongst all the green leaves. I don’t believe that you just keep throwing scary stuff at them and it’ll be all better. Yes, you expose them to everything you can, but you have to take into account the individual nature of the horse, and if it’s something you can’t live with, then you get a different horse. :cool:

But when the shit really hits the fan, that mare WILL come through for me - every time. We did a trail this weekend where we had to traverse a rocky 12 inch wide ledge along the top of a rock quarry. You make a bobble and you’re not stopping until you hit the bottom. I dropped the reins on her neck, took a deep breath and said come on honey you can do it. I could just see her wheels turning and could almost feel her saying - Ok mom, I’ve got this one! She dropped her head, watched her feet very carefully and she walked us right across that ledge without a bobble. Got to the other side and she went back into dancy prancy “Look at me!” mode again.

John Lyons says that horses remember spooky stuff WITHIN CONTEXT. So you expose them to bags at home over and over but you might go on a trail ride, round a bend and there’s a plastic bag hanging from the fence, and the horse will bolt and run. The CONTEXT is different. Horses are creatures of HABIT. Habit tells them - I am always exposed to plastic bags within this location and THESE bags, at THIS location don’t scare me. But many horses have a VERY difficult time relating that to bags located SOMEWHERE ELSE.

I have 2 horses that never spook at anything. Regardless of the item, the context, or the situation. It’s just not in their nature. It’s easy for people to say that they trained their horse to not spook, or that they’re a calm rider so their horse doesn’t spook - so what’s wrong with you. But the FACT is, some of these people have never run across a TRULY hyper-aware horse with the tendency to spook.

I firmly believe that unless you’ve reformed truly hot blooded horses with an innate tendency to spook and ask questions later - you can’t tell people with such horses how to fix it.

I believe that hot sensitive horses offer you the most challenge, but also the most reward.

Has someone asserted that they taught their hot horse NOT to spook, period?

Very windy here yesterday, gusty, and I probably wouldn’t have ridden, but promised older gentleman (73) I would ride with him. I kept telling him we could wait for a day that wasn’t so windy! I hate riding in the wind, but he hadn’t ridden in a year (great!) nor had his old tbred been out in a year.
I usually ride by myself, but yesterday ended up not too bad, however, my horse did one of those REALLY OUT of NOWhere spooks and ran a bit. The t-bred just looked at him.
I think horses just always have it in them…that’s what makes them horses right? otherwise we would be riding dirtbikes.

A2 - you make some very good points. but what much of the despooking training is for, is for the horse to gain the trust of the human herd leader.

When doing despooking training, the horse learns that there are many things out there to not be worried about - period. Once that part is out of the way, the horse can focus on learning to trust the person and rider. And then - it’s a matter of what the horse DOES when it’s worried. It has to learn to wait for the cue from the human.

Driving / driven horses have similar situations. the person is not always “right there” … at its head or on its back. The harness horse has to learn to trust the “operator”. That’s the despooking part and teaching the horse HOW to react.

Watch horses in pasture environments. they will be head down grazing and then… a smell, a slight noise, a movement will cause 1 to look up. that causes the other horses to look up. Then if 1 reacts, the other horses react to the first horse’s reaction. The others may not see or hear or smell what the first horse does/did. The others are reacting to the first horse’s reaction.

Therefore. showing the horse that YOU, the person, have noticed the thing and are calm, is part of the package.

riding is being an active participant - not a passenger. YOu can still drive a car in a relaxed manner - but you are always still paying attention to the many other activities going on all around. Relaxed and alert; versus relaxed and passive.

Katarine. I know a lady that had a reactive Arab. The horse would have mild colics just from many other horses & riders milling around preparing for a show or trail ride.
That lady met a man who was involved in posse / police horse training. She and he worked with her Arab. For several years they went to New Orleans for Mardi Gras with their horses (yes, an Arab). THey spent 1 week in refresher crowd control and noise tolerance training, and then 1 week working the streets of NO during Mardi Gras. SO yes. I believe hot-blooded breeds can be trained out of spooking. That Arab has been used to herd loose cows and I don’t even know what all else. Happy Ending.

A2–I would love to train my girl to tone her “spin and run” spooks down to your arab’s body flinches! I’m impressed with your hotblooded arab!

And Rebmik–while there are VERY RARE times when I think a dirtbike is a plausible alternative to horses (like when start doubting my horsebacking riding abilities), I agree, they are no substitute for the love of a horse! (for one thing, they don’t smell as nice :-).

Hi,

I haven’t read all the responses here, but here is some suggestions that may help:

http://www.themanestreet.com/authors/lauramartlock/askthetrainre/frightenedoftrail.htm

I have two horses with very different spooking styles.

My older warmblood - well, I never could trail ride her. She’s spent most of her life doing ring work. She would walk all over a tarp in the ring, but she wouldn’t go by a drain pipe, stump, cow or mailbox on the trail without all sorts of leaping and spinning.

My husband took over riding her a couple years ago. Honest to god I think she’s spooked maybe twice with him. Total. Doing nothing but trail riding. I think simply because he was from the beginning utterly unaware of what might spook a horse, and so just toodled along with loose reins, enjoying the scenery. It just kills me.

My newer horse, a Morgan, was Amish-trained to drive. Absolutely bombproof in harness. Started trail riding her right away, and she might flinch here and there, or look funny at this or that, but we’ve had a deer leap out 10 feet in front of us and all she does is flinch slightly. Of all things, the one thing that did frighten her slightly when I got her was seeing traffic without blinders on! But some practice made perfect, and we can now ride by tractor trailers, giant garbage trucks, whatever, no problem. My perfect horse. I love being able to just enjoy the ride.

Then again, the other day we were toodling along on a long rein in the lovely sunshine and some unknown invisible thing caused her to take a huge leap the left and nearly got me off. Second time in 2 years she’s done that. Still have no idea what it could have been - there was nothing around. But since her default behavior is so mellow, I just laughed and went onward.

I had a mild spook today. First, it was very windy with fall leaves blowing, so my mare was on full alert from the beginning.

Then, the Irish Setter dog that accompanies us pointed something in some tall grass right beside the trail and I’m thinkin’, “this ain’t a good thing”. Just as we drew even with the clump of grass, a covey of quail BLEW UP about three feet from us.

Big ol’ Foxtrotter mare, she jumped a little but thanks to the dog pointing, I was ready and didn’t come off.

As far as tips, all I’ve got is to trail ride a lot. The more time you and your horse spend out in the bush, the more experienced you will both become and the fewer incidents you’ll have to deal with.

IMHO, a deer jumping up suddenly, a covey of quail or some other sudden event will likely always cause at least a mild reaction from most any horse that breathes.

Yes, yesterday was a potentially very challenging day to be riding in the Deep South–I was out in the afternoon on my formerly spook at everything bolt and spin mare. Cold and windy, hunting season, lots of movement and noise everywhere. And she was dead calm for the whole ride. I didnt even notice until I read through this thread this morning.

Its all about the trust between horse and rider. She wouldve killed me outright on a day like that two years ago. A year ago, it might have been an exciting or challenging ride. Yesterday it was relaxing for both of us.