Me too.
Me too with the big, drafty, gentle, bratty horse. <3
Me too with enjoying this thread.
This is great stuff, but how do I mentally get myself riled up to not “feel bad”? I feel stupid even saying that I do!
I have two thoughts: I’d think of it like instilling manners etc in kids and holding them to a high standard when they are young. It’s hard work, and you may feel bad about being hard on them at the time, but you’re making their life better and easier in the long run. If you get your horse moving off of a light leg aid now, she doesn’t have to get nagged the rest of her life.
Also, it could mean the difference between crashing or not when you’re out cross country and there’s that one time that you really need her to respond to your leg NOW. You’ll have done her a big favor by establishing that responsiveness.
Your horse must understand how to avoid the wallop, and be impressed enough by it to be motivated to do so. Of it takes three wallops to get her to pay attention, so be it. Your safety lies in the horse being in front of our leg. You are not being mean. You are a coach with a lazy student who is blowing you off.
Also, it could mean the difference between crashing or not when you’re out cross country and there’s that one time that you really need her to respond to your leg NOW. You’ll have done her a big favor by establishing that responsiveness.
These two bits are great! We’ve had many ugly fences and my confidence has suffered because of this. My first ride with the new attitude was better than expected, and not as scary of a battle that I was anticipating. She was way more forward, but then I was having trouble with her bracing and not staying round. Not too worried about that right now, one thing at a time I guess! It’s always something with riding.
Ever hear the expressions.“flogging a dead horse” and “horses for courses” ?
[QUOTE=CindyCRNA;7630200]
For those of you using the crack of a whip, where are you placing the whip? The shoulder, the butt? A quick slap to the shoulder seems logical as the whip can just hang down and when needed, a little wrist flick.[/QUOTE]
I use it behind my leg.
Drafties often have EPSM - polysaccharide storage myopathy. If her diet does not already contain extra fat, start feeding it. That should improve energy level.
[QUOTE=Risuena;7630487]
Also, it could mean the difference between crashing or not when you’re out cross country and there’s that one time that you really need her to respond to your leg NOW. You’ll have done her a big favor by establishing that responsiveness.[/QUOTE]
I think this is the key to not “feeling bad” about demanding a response from her. Think about what happens if you have a fence going into or coming out of the water - if she lags behind while you kick and smack away, you may not make it over. When you say GO NOW, she needs to GO, NOW.
I’ve nothing to add to the advice about the corrections, etc. but for some of my–ahem–mature ladies who have a hard time being firm with their babies, we use a bit if theater that seems to help their mindset:
I tell them I need to ride a horse for me and his name is Bob and we need to fix his go button. I make them call him bob while grooming and tacking, no extra snacks or cuddles, and when they come to the ring they are there to do a job for me with Bob. It sounds silly, but you’d be amazed how well it works. When the ride is done, they can be Frank or whoever again and get love, but not until a after the ride.
[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;7629894]
How rude. To fix a lazy pony:
- Ask. A leg cue is a good place to start.
- Tell. Stronger leg cue, tap with the whip, maybe a voice/kiss cue.
- Make. A genuine Pony-Clubber kick, a smack with the whip, and a growly “GIT!” or other verbal cue.
- Rinse and repeat.
Goal is for horse to eventually respect you at step 1, without needing to progress beyond that. The sensitive types figure it out with one or two tries, and keep it for life. The lazy types may need a reminder each time you get on. :lol:
She’s being a brat! You shouldn’t have to work so hard to keep her moving.[/QUOTE]
This x 10.
Make sure she hops the minute you put your leg on… And keeps going at the pace you set. Use a thick bat and use it with determination. Going forward is not open for discussion.
Please don’t wallop her out of the blue. Use a dressage whip with escalating taps. Pay attention to when she starts to respond and QUIT tapping her. Keep your focus. You do not want a horse who is wondering when you are going to nail them. You want a horse who is listening for that light aid. Those taps can get as hard as needed but give her a chance to respond to the lighter aid. You may find this easier to do than beating her.
Also, you can do stuff to make a horse more forward thinking. Go galloping on the trails, or do some walk to canter and medium canter transitions in the arena before you start your schooling session.
Do you have someone who you could go galloping with - and do some starts, slow downs and moving on? Get her adrenalin pumping a bit?
You feel bad because bludgeoning a horse is wrong.
Where a TB will take off running, leaping and twisting in the air if you disrespect them, a draft will go deaf to your aides.
Just because they are bulkier does not mean they have less nerve endings or something equally as daft. They are very forward minded once you get them balanced.
Instead of bossing your horse into compliance (which doesn’t work) approach it as “how quiet can I be and get a response?” Literally halt in the center of the arena and just project forward energy from your core and praise like he!! When he moves. Soon he will very attentive and keen to your quiet game, and eagerly join in the fun, coiled in anticipation ready to trot or canter off on your very whim.
Horses aren’t dumb
Great timing on this! I am dealing with exactly the same issue with a very talented driving pony. Go means go. Period. I have started carrying the longest dressage whip I could find (driving whips make ZERO impression on him). I ask once politely and quietly. The second time I leave no question in his mind. I make it very clear when he gives me the correct response - lots of praise, even if I have really had to get after him.
As someone posted early, this is a disobedience. And not being responsive to the leg can get you hurt.
All great suggestions (though I can no longer relate to having a horse that doesn’t want to GO :no:)
Adding: when I had a balky, slowish horse who got behind the leg and blew off the forward aids a lot, my dressage coach suggested I do some of the re-edumacating on the longe and with ground work. It worked very well.
I’ve struggled with being ineffective with forward aids; I went from exclusively riding pony mares to half leasing a paint gelding - it took a while to be able to give him a good whack and not worry that he would get offended and dump me! I can’t remember where I heard this, but someone finally told me that because horses don’t have a human understanding of cause-and-effect, you only have about 20 seconds after some misbehavior to punish them, or else they won’t make the connection between the thing they did and the thing you’re doing. Nagging doesn’t work because they don’t make the connection between not giving enough of a response and you bothering them with your leg ten minutes later. They just think you’re bothering them for no reason. The nagging aids might feel gentler to you, but they don’t work on a level of logic that a horse can understand, so really they’re just getting more and more confused. I don’t think you have to come to the BAM! approach out of anger - you want to be rational and fair with your aids - but it might let you be gentler in the long run if your horse understands what you’re trying to do.
[QUOTE=arlosmine;7630321]
Start at the halt.
Use your ideal aid leg aid. The one you think the best trained horse on the planet would respond to. Almost nothing.
When your horse does nothing, or a very minimal something, give her one hellacious wallop behind your leg with a cross country bat.
Let her leap forward (if she doesn’t do something enthusiastic, you did not wallop her Hard enough) Praise her like mad and let her go for about 15 meters.
Halt again. Retest original aid. Repeat wallop if her response in not ENTHUSIASTIC.
DO NOT:
Repeat the leg aid.
Make the leg aid harder.
She CAN hear you, she has just determined that your leg aid is meaningless white noise.
When she makes an enthusiastic response to any gait from the ideal aid at halt, DO NOT wallop her. Allow her to continue in that gait. if she has shot past a working gait, great…bring her back to a working gait.
Then:
Slow the gait down a little. (10%)
Apply IDEAL leg aid ONCE.
If she does not make a minimum of a 30% change forward, WALLOP.
Allow forward for 10-15 meters, then repeat the above (slow down to a working gait, then ask with one aid for one response)
Keep doing min-transitions within the gaits, and real transitions between the gaits, throughout your work session.
The key here is to expect a response to every single leg aid, and to NEVER increase your ideal aid to a nagging one.
Your horse must understand how to avoid the wallop, and be impressed enough by it to be motivated to do so. Of it takes three wallops to get her to pay attention, so be it. Your safety lies in the horse being in front of our leg. You are not being mean. You are a coach with a lazy student who is blowing you off.[/QUOTE]
This but I was taught to do it with the dressage whip. You have to be ready to really let them overract and GO. Do not try and put them in a frame or control the response. If they gallop off…GREAT. I’ve done this exercise with OTTBs. They have to learn that let means forward NOW. And they don’t learn that unless you are CRYSTAL clear.
[QUOTE=shea’smom;7635162]
Please don’t wallop her out of the blue. Use a dressage whip with escalating taps. Pay attention to when she starts to respond and QUIT tapping her. Keep your focus. You do not want a horse who is wondering when you are going to nail them. You want a horse who is listening for that light aid. Those taps can get as hard as needed but give her a chance to respond to the lighter aid. You may find this easier to do than beating her.[/QUOTE]
The wallop or wack with the dressage whip is NOT out of the blue and is not beating them. You ask with the leg you want. You do not escalate this. You ask and if you do not get an immediate FWD response at or above what you want…you wack. I learned this in a lesson with an FEI level dressage rider (GP rider who has also evented to 3* level). It is about teaching RESPECT to the leg aid. So the leg aid has to be given first. But you are being very clear that they are to jump forward.
I did it with a hotter TB…while hot and sensitive, he was still not quick off my leg. Yes it is ugly…but most horses you only need to focus on this once. It may take a few transitions but they understand very quickly. The key is both the quick wallop but also the praise and letting them run off. NOT confusing it with other aids. You are just focusing on one aid…both legs on, even lightly, means FORWARD.
THEN after they get it, you go back to just occasionally using the whip as a tap to remind them.
^^^ bfne and I agree on this. Going forward and moving off the leg is required, and not something one negotiates. I don’t pussy foot around if a horse ignores my leg. I also prefer a crop when fixing a horse that is dull to the leg as I like to use the whip more as a means to get engagement and the hind leg active. The use of the whip does not always mean go forward. The use of the crop does.
Drafties often have EPSM - polysaccharide storage myopathy. If her diet does not already contain extra fat, start feeding it. That should improve energy level.
She does have EPSM and has been on her new diet for about 2 years It made a HUGE difference for her.
Her flat rides have improved a lot over the past two rides. Her gallop response still needs work. We are constantly getting time faults, hopefully with this newzero tolerance program that will keep improving.
