Wow, Misita, that was nasty! I hope Kathy checks in and gives her opinion. Glad things worked out so well!
Thank you. It was the most frightening experience. We were up all night between trying to get baby up and getting milk into her. But tonight both mom and baby are fine. I keep replaying it in my mind. My friend was videoing and I’m just in shock, saying, “oh my God, it’s upside down!”
Sooo frightening, and my nearest vet is an hour away. So waiting for the vet isn’t an option.
Babies often are still upside down when they begin to be delivered. It is SO important to not try to help turn them until you know which way they are naturally turning. The mare getting up and down a few times works wonders, you just have to have p-a-t-i-e-n-c-e. I know, not easy. The danger is with that true red bag, as there is not the time to just wait.
Chris, keep a VERY close eye still on your baby for the next couple of days. They can still crash. Just another 48 hours with no sleep. :eek: Hope everything continues to be fine.
We had a red bag delivery a few years ago. Unfortunately had 2 people here to watch the birth (really freaked them out). Called the local vet who said he would come. Called my equine vets and told the answering service that I had a red bag delivery and I needed to talk to the vet NOW. Was instantly connected to the vet (at least it seemed like it - even at 11 at night).
Equine vet said to cut the bag and pull quickly. We did that and in under 2 minutes the foal was out and breathing. We were very lucky. Cancelled the local vet who hadn’t left yet and didn’t bother to give us help over the phone. If it hadn’t been for our equine vet, you would have lost the foal and possibly the mare. Both were fine luckily. Our equine vets are the best. Yeah Karen & Wayne.
It can be very scary. Make sure you have your foaling kit (with scissors) very close as well as a cell phone.
Nancy!
Another Red Bag story: this one just happen two weeks ago to a woman who bought a mare (in foal) from me. This mare had always had an easy time foaling for me, although she carried long (first time was 387 days!).
This woman is pretty new to foaling – foaled out about 8 mares so far. Well, she was there (thank goodness ) during this foaling and saw the red bag come out. She said she just “knew” instinctively to get the foal out – GREAT instincts. So she got that filly out PDQ, but the the baby was pretty windswept and weak.
Finally got the foal nursing and when the vet came out the next day they did the IGg, put the foal on antibiotics and oxygen, plus several layers of “clothing” to keep in warm.
Well, here’s the interesting part – because this gal is at 8000 ft. the filly had a hard time getting enough O2 – her heart rate was getting up to 150 when she got up and galloped around (this woman is an endurance rider, so she knows how to take a HR).
On Day 4 she took the filly to a vet school where they did a full work-up and luckily everything looks ok, but they suggested the filly be moved to a lower altitude for afew days. So filly spent the next 4 days at a “mere” 6500 ft.
Now she is doing fine and tearing around like a house a fire…but I’m SO glad that mare didn’t do that with me!! I would have hid under the bed!
BTW, she wants to re-breed the mare to the same stallion — Red Bag usually equates to a uterine infection, correct?
So how long does she have to wait to get the culture/cytology? I was told a mare isn’t “clean” for some time after she foals but can’t remember the exact time…30 days?
Why the RB? Depends. The mare that had a RB for me last time cultured with a fungal infection. They cultured her/the placenta right at birth and flushed her for the infection at that time. As I understand it not ALL RBs are caused by infection (can be an insufficient quality placenta attatchment too) but probably most are infection related.
Whew. This thread…
I have had a red bag foaling experience I recounted on COTH several years ago.
My friend’s arabian mare was due, she’d had previous foals and had red bag experience. They had her at the farm over the hill, and had called me to say they thought she would go that night. On my way out to another barn I stopped by to see the mare. We discussed specifically the signs of red bag and what to do (friend hadn’t bothered to educate herself :rolleyes: even though she knew the mare was at risk).
I went to the other barn and on they way home stopped by again. Was walking around the barn seeing the other horses when my friend’s husband yelled for me that the mare was in labor and things ‘didn’t look right’. I walked over to her stall and was like :eek: Oh Sh*T! as she was very clearly delivering a red bag foal.
They had no foaling kit prepared :mad: so I was yelling for ‘a knife, a sissors, I need something sharp.’ all the while saying “we have 4 minutes, someone watch the clock” as you really only have minutes until the foal suffers permanent damage.
Thank god someone found a knife. I went to the mare and I think I crossed myself and said a prayer, cut into the placenta, found the white sack, tore it with my hands (no gloves available of course, as there was no assembled foaling kit!!), reached in and thank GOD found the foal’s head and forelegs, and then started to pull. Remember to pull in the natural arc, out and down towards the mare’s hocks.
Thank GOD we got the foal out in a short amount of time. I had to have the husband help me catch the foal as we had the mare standing. Thankfully, the foal was fine. My friend was VERY very lucky that 1) I was there as an experienced foaling attendant, as she was a wreck and totally useless during the emergency, and 2) that the foal was not a dummy and suffered no ill effects!! and 3) that despite there being no foaling kit, we were able to get the supplies together to handle the emergency.
I am out of breath just reading this right now.
Just before reading this we foal tested our huge warmblood mare. She is at 200 on Chemetrics. Everything is ready and she is getting a bath. She most likely will foal tonite. Wish me well you guys!!! This will be mare #6 so far for me this year.
Wow… Reading this it seems a lot less common that I would say I’ve seen. Out of maybe 500 mares or so I’ve foaled or helped foal I would say I’ve seen at least 20 or 25.
There was a fescue issue last year though so we saw a ton. We only lost one foal.
Personally a red bag scares me a whole lot less than a dystocia, especially a bad one.
Things I started to notice… Mares with a red bag will often get down and start to look like they are actually pushing even though their water hasn’t broken. This was my first sign there might be an issue. Its pretty obvious if they do this.
I guess I didn’t think of a RB as nearly as big a deal if someone is there to get the foal out right away. Like I said we only lost 1 out of 20-25 and that mare had placentits anyway so the foal was compromised to begin with. Would have to look at records to have the exact #.
If you have a RB delivery, my understanding is you cut the placenta open asap. But when your pulling the baby out, do you pull with the mares contractions? Or, just pull like hell, contraction or no?
By the way. My baby had her second blood work done today and she’s fine. Mom and baby are both excellent and out of the woods.
Sandra6500 - I am happy for you that your red bags have gone so well.
I was present for my mare. I was there before the water broke, before she went down.
I got the foal out very fast but unfortunately did not have the happy ending you describe. To me a red bag is a big deal. To my mare and her dead filly it was a big deal also.
Jees, no kidding
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;3165806]
BTW, she wants to re-breed the mare to the same stallion — Red Bag usually equates to a uterine infection, correct? [/QUOTE]
Nope. Think velcro. All those mares with less than perfect biopsy scores often don’t have the best “velcro”. Older mares that have numerous foals and the uterus is just “tired” will be more prone to a red bag delivery. And, mares with really poor biopsy scores can have very, very poor quality uterine "connection. While placentitis sometimes lead to a red bag delivery, there are certainly other reasons.
Hope that helps.
Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com
[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;3168009]
Nope. Think velcro. All those mares with less than perfect biopsy scores often don’t have the best “velcro”. Older mares that have numerous foals and the uterus is just “tired” will be more prone to a red bag delivery. And, mares with really poor biopsy scores can have very, very poor quality uterine "connection. While placentitis sometimes lead to a red bag delivery, there are certainly other reasons.
Hope that helps.
Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com[/QUOTE]
Well, this mare is older at 15 yrs., but she has always conceived and foaled without issue. She did NOT show any s/s of placentitis this pregnancy that I am aware of and carried the foal over 340 days.
Kathy – since the owner plans to rebreed (this time via shipped semen), would you advise a culture/cytology, given the red bag? If so, how long does she need to wait post foaling to expect to get a clean report?
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;3168847]
Well, this mare is older at 15 yrs., but she has always conceived and foaled without issue. She did NOT show any s/s of placentitis this pregnancy that I am aware of and carried the foal over 340 days.
Kathy – since the owner plans to rebreed (this time via shipped semen), would you advise a culture/cytology, given the red bag? If so, how long does she need to wait post foaling to expect to get a clean report?[/QUOTE]
At 15, I’d be more interested a uterine biopsy. I’d like to know what kind of condition the uterus is in. If the biopsy came back decent, then I’d probably look at having a culture and cytology done. Cultures done on a recently post foaling mare will usually grow something. Even at 30 days you will sometimes get false positives. And, of course, a cytology on a recent post foaling mare is going to be LOADED with inflammatory cells! So no help there.
Hope that helps!
Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com
