Menu

Subscribe Now

Unlimited access >

Menu

Help needed with training plan for 4.5 year old well-started Friesian sport horse!

Dressage
#41

Wow, count me in as another fan of your artwork! My boyfriend asked me recently if I wished we had more horse-related art in our house and I said no, not really, because to be honest I don’t like a lot of it because I often feel like the horses are just slightly “off” or it is just not my style of art, but I would 1000% have pieces of yours! I also really love the wildlife paintings. We went to Glacier for the first time over the summer and I’d love to have a few of those as well! Adding it to the list for the “future house” haha

Tons of good advice and I don’t have much to add other than to throw in that I would say don’t underestimate how much you can achieve just at the walk! One of the [eventing] BNRs I rode for did a TON of walk work with all of his, from the young horses to the Olympic horses and you can put a surprising amount of conditioning on them just at the walk and teach them a lot about proprioception and basic exercises with moving off of the leg. We didn’t get much snow where we were in the UK but we had LOTS of mud and walking on different surfaces - mud, pavement, arena footing, firm ground (on the occasions it dried out or you could find high ground) was a big part of his philosophy for fit, sound horses. Riding somewhere else we used to walk the horses a lot in deeper snow in the winter when we couldn’t do anything else and that was also super conditioning but definitely hard work so something to build up slowly. If you teach him to long-line, all of the walking can also turn into very good human-fitness routines for days that baby horses look too fresh to ride or it is too dark/cold (sometimes I’d long line instead of ride because it kept me warmer!).

4 Likes
#42

Thank you for your very kind words about my work! I am super critical of most horse-related artwork when it comes to anatomy, so the drawing that goes into my pieces gets a lot of care. (Since I’m gonna disrupt them with paint, the underlying drawing ‘skeleton’ has to be accurate.) – and how cool that you visited Glacier! that’s sorta my backyard - it’s about 2.5 hours north of where I live. I’m blessed to live where there is so much wildlife! but it DOES mean we’re in a saddle-and-horse-buying, horse-showing, clinic-taking desert. Tradeoffs…

And thank you for pointing out how much can be done at the walk! Such good advice. We don’t have deep snow yet, but it’s quite cold and there’s been some ice buildup, ugh. I need to refresh my own long-lining skills – been way too many years – but I have several good books on the topic.

1 Like
#43

You’ve had good advice here (though I disagree vehemently that Clinton Anderson is a good example of a young horse trainer.)

I just had to post here to say that I think your art is beautiful. I agree with @weixiao. A great deal of horsey art leaves me flat, because something seems off. You get them right. It can’t be easy to make lovely correct horses with such stunning artistic interpretation. Wow, just Wow. Well done you!

2 Likes
#44

Thank you for the kind words, and the perspective! (For some reason COTH didn’t tell me about your post, my apologies for the delay in replying!) This current art journey is definitely a risky one, and I throw away at least 30% of my work…but it’s worth it for the ones that succeed. I think :crazy_face:.

2 Likes
#45

If he’s wiggly, I’d refer back to evaluating and solidifying rhythm, suppleness, and contact. If I had a horse entering my training program with this type of information and new owner wanted to stick to seller’s program to an extent I might:

  • Lunge briefly one day a week, and incorporate some straightness training in-hand.
  • A day under saddle focusing on exercises that build better rhythm
  • A day of ground work focused on laterals from the ground, and possibly working on squaring the halt on the ground.
  • Another day under saddle focused on suppleness exercises. Remember to keep all aspect of suppleness in mind (vertical, lateral, mental, and suppleness of the joints.)

I hope this helps!

#46

It does! I should clarify that the bulleted list I wrote I don’t think was based on something specific to the seller. I’m open to ANY and ALL training suggestions. And at this point, we’re 2 months on since he came here, and we have more information.

He turned out to be quite a lot greener than the seller intimated, and he’s been in a month of full training since early December. I rode him yesterday for the first time in a month, and we have a number of challenges:

  • He’s unable to maintain a consistent bend for more than a few strides (this is also true for the professional trainer, so it’s not just me). We had zero actual circles, just lots of weird shapes with frequent inverted bend to the outside.
  • We suspect he might be unfamiliar with indoor arenas, as he often decides that the far corners or the right-hand door are spook-worthy, leading to the inverted bend thing. (Of course, it doesn’t help that snow slides off the roof frequently.)
  • Straight lines are also not happening.

The trainer thinks some or all of this is him evading the work, though it ends up being more work overall for him. On the occasions when he’s been attentive and worked well, she’s ended his training session after 20 minutes. More often, though, it takes 20 minutes just to get his brain somewhat engaged, and then actual work can happen. It’s pretty clear that he’s going to need more than just the one month of full training he’s had.

I very much wish we could just go out for some good trail rides, but of course with snow and ice everywhere that’s not a possibility for several months yet.

At this point, it’s hard to say how our story will turn out; he’ll be 5 in March, and … well, I just don’t know how it’ll go.

#47

No. This mindset needs to go POOF right now.

He needs strength. He lacks the strength, and the flexibility, and the knowledge of moving his ribs around, to do the work. I can nearly guarantee your horse is the Goodest of Boys, wanting to make his people happy. Building strength takes a long-ass-time.

Little victories are big victories right now. Lots of praise. If you pressure him too much, the spooky areas will be MORE spooky because he will be that much closer to his “I can’t do this” threshold.

Lots and lots and lots of “move your ribs for a sec buddy, hey nice work (even if it really wasnt), lets try something else for a minute, wow that was good (even if it really wasnt), let’s go over here and do…”

You are correct that riding out is very important for him, but in the meantime, ALWAYS short and sweet. There is no use grinding an uneducated 5 year old into anything.

23 Likes
#48

4! he’s still a 4 year old. All the more reason to keep every single ride/session 30 minutes or less. Doesn’t matter what you do or don’t get accomplished. 30 minutes is the cap, full stop. You might be gritting your teeth a little as you wrap it up, but don’t fight the battle when the war is what you’re after.

3 Likes
#49

Thank you for this! I need to hear other perspectives for sure.

That said, the trainer is quite used to starting youngsters and working with green beans, including drafty types, in this same indoor arena with snowy roof, and I get the sense she’s a bit surprised at his continuing reactions.

#50

I am thinking what @endlessclimb said (This mindset needs to go POOF now), plus consider doing your starting your own fitness program. I’ve been doing the equiformance work, and man I am sore and it helps me remember my horses get sore too! And they aren’t choosing to do what we want them to do. Contemplating your own position within a meditative contemplative place makes the ride seem to last longer. Doing specific patterns that you’ve planned ahead of time and do them a set number of times (less if perfect) usually at the most 5 times gets you thinking about where the body is and keeps you from wandering around. Like walking a square etc. Just some thought. Good luck.

1 Like
#51

I appreciate your comments about the trainer. Even for the most seasoned, it’s easy to say “he’s doing [this] because he doesn’t want to do what I ask.” Don’t fall into that trap. He’s doing it because he doesn’t have a real bond with anyone yet, and he doesn’t know for sure where he’s at yet, etc. etc.

Time, patience, no grinding. Every day is a new day, and for awhile every day might have a “new horse” in him. Work the one you’ve got. He’s distracted? Great, the goal for today is to establish some focus and a deep breath. He’s really inverted and counter flexy today? Great, the goal for today is to get the head down a bit, and pick up the ribcage for 1/4 of a circle at the trot.

Small goals. Tiny, teeny ones. Make it so there is absolutely NO WAY he can “fail” at the task.

You’re going to be fine! :slight_smile:

9 Likes
#52

I 100% disagree with the verbiage your trainer is using. This horse is not evading work. He doesn’t know what “work” is… He is four freaking years old. Reevaluate your trainer immediately.

This is 100% the wrong perspective to apply to this horse at his stage in his life.

Take a good look at the Warwick Schiller videos.

7 Likes
#53

So many good perspectives here – you have no idea how you’ve helped my own.

RE: fitness – I’m a distance runner and weightlifter for many years, though I am starting a deep stretching program because I feel that’s lacking in my body.

I really appreciate the thought about him lacking a real bond with anyone yet…SO good to remember. He’s 2 months here, after just a month at the seller’s, and that after a week of trailering from Ohio.

I think the “new horse every day” comment totally applies. We got to the point yesterday where we actually had 4 strides in relaxed, nicely bent trot and boy that was lovely. (Then we’d counterflex and fall in…then 4 good strides again, at the same point in our not-circle.)

BTW, he likes R+ training – picked up targeting immediately – and I just need to think through how I can use that for showing him how to use his body (from the ground first). I have Alexandra Kurland’s books to help me.

And I’ll dig around in the Warwick Schiller videos some more - thank you!

2 Likes
#54

Snow sliding on the indoor is really hard for some horses. I had an event horse who was brave as a lion in every way, jumped anything, went anywhere, crossed anything, etc but he was really bothered by the sound of snow sliding off of the roof of the indoor and it took him a long time to be “ok” with it. He was never great about it but I was only in NY very briefly while at school before heading back somewhere that did not have snow as quickly as possible and I suspect he would have improved over time. Indoors are also a lot of some horses to get used to with a lot of weird corners and shadows in their vision. I wouldn’t worry about it yet, I think you’ll see he improves over time and I don’t think the fact that he still finds it spooky, particularly given his age, is cause for concern. I’m not sure how big your indoor is but with the babies I’ve sometimes just decided that some rides, we’ll just work in the areas that they are comfortable. If you force the spooky issue every time it can make the ride unpleasant every time and I think that sometimes both horse and human just need a nice time. Some people may disagree and YMMV but if your indoor is big enough that you can avoid the spookiest areas sometimes, I’d try and just have a few nice rides focusing on other things and not feel like you have to address that every time (you may already be doing this, or you may not want to, in which case disregard but it is just a thought). With continued exposure, I’d expect some of that to just naturally go away.

On a similar note, with the babies learning to go straight and steer and all of those things, one mindset I sometimes take is to imagine a “zone” for what I’m trying to work on. With an older, more educated and physically stronger horse I might be able to say “put your body right here on this track/these tracks” but the younger and greener they are, the broader that target might be. Slowly, over time, you can narrow that zone down so instead of ride 1-20 (arbitrary numbers, depends on the horse and ask, purely for illustrative purposes) saying I’d like you to be within 5 feet of this track on either side, you might say ok, I’d like you to be within 3’ of this this time, for at least three strides, then we go back to within 5’. Then you build up to 10 strides within 3’ and go back to 5’ etc. Like with almost any kind of education you start with very broad strokes and start dialing it in little by little until they are ready for a PhD thesis on a special topic.

Again, some might take a different approach but for me this has been a successful one and it helps me manage my expectations and lends itself to small wins for horse and rider that mean a much more positive experience as you go through the process.

3 Likes
#55

Thank you for sharing these thoughts! The snow slides definitely affect even horses who have been there a while. The indoor is pretty small (think short dressage court size), but even so I can stay at the one end. Tomorrow I plan to go mess with a little targeting, a little in-hand work on the arena sides, and then a little bit of saddle time.

I’d really like to get him relaxed and attentive at the walk, and build a few good trot strides from there, but he seems to be more prone to finding things to worry about when we’re walking than when trotting. (Though of course at trot there’s a lot of hollowing and counterflexing for a while before he has a few relaxed, correct strides.)

#56

It sounds like the source of your bend/straightness issues could be largely mental? If his focus is outside of the arena or through the door, he’ll “bend” to the outside and lean against your inside leg (my 5-year-old has this tendency to the left and it really is all about where his ears and eyes are pointing). If he’s thinking this way and that way instead of where his feet are, he won’t be straight or make round circles. Instead of trying to hold him together, I’d back up and teach him to relax and be mentally present.

Here are a few specific WS videos that could help, though the subscription program is more in-depth and easier to follow:

Meditation” for horses

Redirecting focus under saddle

Bending for relaxation

4 Likes
#57

He’s 4. He’s growing and physically changing and probably doesn’t know where his limbs are sometimes. Wiggliness is to be expected. Focus is not.

I took a cracking fall off my 14 year old schoolmaster thanks to a gigantic snow slide earlier this week. He grew up in Arizona so its all new to him. I’d take a non-explosive reaction any day of the week.

3 Likes
#58

Settle in for the long haul; my WB mare is finally bending both directions after two solid years under saddle - even after developing a pretty decent shoulder-in, bending on a smaller than 20m circle was really difficult. Incidentally, we started kinesiotaping her a month ago and she’s made a big leap in her ability to bend and carry. The canter got better at age six when her proportions evened out.

WRT rider fitness - it’s great to have regular strength and cardio fitness, but having done a fair bit of running and weight lifting myself, I’ve found out of the last couple years that I need to do rider-specific exercises to address asymmetries and hone my balance. I thought I was checking my symmetry, running with good form, etc. but there were lots of details to address and my riding is continuing to improve a lot as a result (and most of these things I have never been mentioned to me by my gold and silver medalist instructors; had to figure them out for myself).

2 Likes
#59

This seems like an astute observation. I went through all the WS videos you posted…thank you!! I’ll be doing my best to apply those with him.

I also had an extended text conversation with my trainer about my boy and where he’s at. She says her expectations of him (don’t lean into pressure, do travel a straight line and focus on the task at hand, which is not something long and demanding) are what she has of all horses within the first 10 to 15 rides (age 3 and up) – at a walk, and later a trot. Her sense is that this was skipped over with him, that he was pushed through a lot of different parts of training…so we’re backtracking, and he has to unlearn some things, and has a few tricks up his sleeve (maybe scared someone at some point and got away with it), but not malicious.

Whether he’ll fit with my primary focus of dressage remains to be seen; he might be a really good trail horse, f’rinstance. As she said, this is why young horses are called “prospects”.

2 Likes

Get your Digital Subscription here - only $21.95 / year

Subscribe here
See gift options

Sign up to our monthly newsletter!

By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.

Copyright © 2023 The Chronicle of the Horse