help w/ anti-fox hunting extremists :(

Antis come in all forms

Angela,

Terribly sorry to hear your troubles with the antis. In this era, it is especially difficult to post videos, pictures or other foxhunting items on the web where others are allowed to post comments. I have seen many videos and slide shows on UTube under attack from all sorts of people who lack the ability to spell check or the integrity to sign their name. Rather, slurs and insults are tossed from the sidelines. I find it deplorable behavior.

To that end I choose not to post videos on a website that allows others to post comments. I have instead put videos and photos on my site www.guilfordhounds.com for others to see, but not comment on. The negative publicity found on UTube and other photo album sites is an annoyance. Antis are indeed a serious threat and will affect all hunts Live or Drag. The comments posted by antis do not help anyone. There is little use trying to have a reasonable conservation with them anyway.

I need to stand on my soap box a bit here. I truly wish those who like to take cheap shots and saying drag “hunting isn’t hunting” would take a step back and reevaluate those comments. All forms of hunting are always under attack. In the United States it is highly unlikely that hunting will be banned on a federal level. It is also highly unlikely that hunting will be banned on a state level. However, where the war will be fought is in animal husbandry regulations. More and more municipalities and states are trying to impose regulations and restrictions on kennels and animal management. It is these restrictions that will be the end of hunting with hounds. When the kennel is attacked and the hounds need to be euthanized, that is when HSUS, PETA, ALF and the like will have won the battle. It is a backdoor attempt and gaining success in the fight to stop all hunting. Pennsylvania was under attack last year with some of the most ridiculous and restrictive kennel regulations ever. Virginia recently came under attack with similar regulations. Thankfully, hunters in both states prevailed, but rest assured the fight will be back again.

Now, as a drag hunt I spend thousands every year in donations to pro hunting organizations. I guess ‘technically’ I don’t need to support them since I ‘technically’ am not hunting. Yet, I fully support the choice that others make to live hunt and frankly do not understand why I have to defend drag hunting to others. Drag hunting frequently comes under attack from live hunters. Drag hunting does not come under attack from the general public. It only is attacked and referred to as the red-headed step-child of hunting by live hunters. I find that sadly ironic. But live hunts and drag hunts will suffer the same fate. Why is it that folks need to put down drag hunts when so often I do my very best to help protect your choice? We are cut from the same cloth, why won’t live hunters stand shoulder to should with me as I stand with them? The antis are after the live hunters, should I pull my support of hunting as many have pulled their support of drag packs? It truly saddens me that I spend my time defending drag hunting from the very people I support.

In terms of shying away from advertising a kill. Don’t. Hunting is hunting. I make no excuse for how hounds dispatch prey. It is fast, quick and effective. Much more effective than wounding an animal with a rifle only to let it suffer a slow death.

Fox Hunting vs. Fox Chasing. Seriously, how PC can we get? Stop watering down what you do and stand a bit taller. It is fox hunting. You don’t need to have a kill every day out to call it hunting. We don’t call deer season ‘deer chasing’ It is ‘deer hunting’ plain and simple.

Incidentally, I choose drag hunting because of territory and landowner requirements, not because I am afraid of hurting Charlie.

Gregory

I should apologize to Greg and EventAmy and others who may have been offended by my comments. They are not the people of whom I spoke in an earlier post. This past year I did have the opportunity to ride with a couple of drag hunts including Guilford Hounds. One of the things I loved while riding with them was their focus and love of their hounds. The country is beautiful and members made it clear they love their country which allows full view of the hounds the majority of the time.

That said, I do believe Greg’s comments best represent where we all should be on this matter. Thanks for saying it so well.

No harm

Karen,

You are always welcomed. I was not talking specifically to you, but rather to a mindset that has been rearing its head lately. I have a sign that hangs over the brick chimney that says “bang head here.” I recently had this debate on FOL with a guy who is dumber than most English Hounds. :wink: He professes himself to be a huntsman, although he has no hounds registered to him and his ‘hunt’ is not listed by the MFHA, Baileys, Chase, Speeddogs, or Masterfox.

We all need to ban together to stop the antis and bickering amongst ourselves on who chases vs. hunts or who drags vs. live is not going to help. As you well know, if an anti can drive a wedge in between members of a hunting community, then they have gained a foothold.

When you are out with us, if you know of an anti in the field, point them out. Hunt whips are more than just a decoration!

Now wait a minute …

<<a guy who is dumber than most English Hounds.>>

In my experience, an awful lot of things are dumber than English hounds. The English hounds I know are damned smart! And, after all, I don’t think George Washington brought those lovely hounds of his from South Dakota … :wink: back atcha, Kittredge!

Ok, So I have been following this thread since it started and have looked alot of stuff up. I have looked at the OP’s videos, I have looked at youtube videos and I have read all the comments. I am a vegetarian (please don’t throw anything at me yet, let me continue) I also happen to work on a farm that does both Polo and Foxhunting. I have gone on a few hunts (it’s a pretty funny site to see me trying to figure it all out). And I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised! The day my boss told me she needed me to go on a hunt I freaked out (in my mind only, didn’t want her to know my crazy thought process and fears) I thought I would not be able to handle seeing a fox be killed. I later found out a few things: 1) The fox really doesn’t get caught that often 2) If I hilltop, I don’t have to be close enough to see it if it does. Now here comes the part I am hoping you all take with a grain of salt! I understand (somewhat) where these people are coming from, I always thought the sport was the things these people are saying. It is obvious to me now (and all of you of course) that it is ignorance that causes these opinions. I admire all of you who hunt and know that even the few times I have done it I was hobbling around the next day (man I had never been so sore in my life! Even after breaking a horse!) I know that the people involved are very nice people who care about their animals. I also now know that it is more about the chase than the actually killing (atleast from what I have seen and heard). Please remember the people making these comments are just unaware of what really goes on and those who are not willing to listen to your explanations are not worth a second thought! Also, please don’t hold those comments against all vegetarians :smiley: Some of us really are good people :smiley: Hope everything calms down for all of you! Best of Luck with everything!

Uh oh, looks like a kennel fight in the making. I think someone’s hackles are up! :smiley:

Much of the videos you see on UTube and other photo album sites should never have been posted. On Utube alone I have spent hours watching a huntsman and his pack after their quarry. When they either tree it or send it to ground, the den is dug up and the fox placed in a bag. This bag is then brought to the middle of the pack and inverted. This is called hunting a bagged fox. It is a practice strictly forbidden by MFHA rules and regulations. In addition it is a deplorable and very un-sportsman like venture. I have then further seen that same huntsman pick up the dispatch fox and play with it with his pack. While I understand the rational of being pleased with you pack, this ritual should not be done in the public eye. It is videos like that that inflame the antis, and I can understand why.

You are correct that the emphasis of hunting in the United States is more about the chase and less about the kill. However when folks think of foxhunting they think of that little fox being hunted by a pack of ravenous hounds. We often talk about how the fox is cunning. I wonder if it ever occurred to folks why we use an entire pack. Simply stated the fox is very clever and it takes a pack to try and outsmart him. Even a solid pack of American hounds (sorry ArtilleryHill, couldn’t resist :wink: )

Getting back on subject, folks just need to be cautious about what and where the post media. You need to put out media that benefits your cause, not the antis. If you have video of a kill, I suggest you keep that at home. Everything you say, do and show is scrutinized. You don’t need to hand the enemy ammunition, they will fabricate enough for all of us.

Oh - I’m so very glad you got to go hunting! Of course you’d be pleasantly surprised - foxhunting is nothing like what the Anti’s claim it to be. And there’s no reason to think anyone would get after you for being a vegetarian (I was one too until a couple of years ago). No one made fun of me - they just made fun of me for falling off. There’s room for everyone in foxhunting. :slight_smile:

If you’re interested in riding to hounds, but don’t know much about the sport, its history and what the sporting community is doing - there is a lot of great info out there. You’ll never get reliable or accurate information from animal rights websites. I’ve read all that stuff and it’s just too ridiculous.

Sportsmen have always been the most passionate advocates for conservation of our natural world. These men and women have been at the forefront of habitat preservation, pushed for conservation programs within agriculture, been keen on educating the public, and have been among the most generous and dedicated donors to environmental causes. Often, they have a very deep connection to nature, to agriculture, open space and historical preservation in their community.

I bet if you queried most hunt members about conservation or animal welfare, you wouldn’t be able to shut them up. They’re well educated on those subjects, and the welfare of domestic and wild animals is a subject of great importance.

After all - the sporting community is out there - on the land -seeing first hand the destruction of habitat, the fragmentation of open space and loss of farms… and they know better than anyone else how important it is to preserve it. And that’s true whether the pack is live or drag.

If you want to start your reading on-line - try MFHA.com to start. Then try eclr.org.

I hope you get the opportunity to hunt again - I have no doubt you’ll get hooked. Trust me - the odds are on the fox. Every single time. The fox is pretty smart, knows the territory, has plenty of places to dart down to get away from a hound. I’ve seen many a fox just sit on a hilltop and watch those silly hounds trying to figure out which way he went. Then calmly get up and just walk slowly into the woods - secure in the knowledge that those hounds will be pottering about - totally confused.