I would address any medical issues before behavior. ie., eye sight, lymes (can cause aggressiveness), chiro, vet…
get someone who is gentle, consistent and who can show you techniques using parelli type natural horsemanship methods so once you know pony is ok medically, you can become a quiet confident her leader:)
I’m surprised you (or trainer) haven’t put a chain on the nose yet. Its okay for the them to feel good and act a little fresh, its NOT okay when that energy translates into aggressive behavior and you’re the target.
Agree with all who say pony needs to learn its place in life. Don’t forget to praise praise praise as soon as he does something right. Absolutely NO hand fed treats. Don’t give him a reason to think its okay to put his mouth on you or nudge around for something. All treats (if any) go in a bucket. Period.
Had a pony go on trial that left here a respectful & sweet soul and came back from a 10 day trial with horrendous manners. Vet notated on the PPE that pony was “biting and headshaking”…we were scratching our heads, she has NEVER done that before. Turns out the 12 yo kid who was trying that pony was left pretty much unsupervised, only rode with the trainer 2 out of the 10 days and was giving treats left and right. Kids Mom is a clueless non-horse person. Pony was looking for treats during the PPE and shaking her head because she was mad she wasn’t receiving any. Pony has gotten better since she’s returned, but if you give her an inch you can see it in her eye that she’s thinking about taking advantage of it. But at least now she’s thinking instead of just doing. Even though I’ve never put up with any BS, she still tests me and has to be put in her place sometimes. Some horses are just more persistent and/or stubborn than others. Once a horse like that has been allowed to act inapproptriately and get away with it several times, I don’t think the idea ever fully exits their head. They just figure out who they can take advantage of and who they can’t, and will still give you a test from time to time.
Anyway, my point is that it doesn’t take much for them to develop bad habits, and fixing them usually takes much longer. Nip this in the bud before somebody gets hurt.
Actually, chain under chin is ‘better’ than chain over nose. I know the over nose is the preferred ‘English’ style; I had never done it any other way 'til I started riding western. Then someone pointed out to me that the nose is cartilage and the jaw is bone. MUCH easier to physically (and significantly) damage cartilage.
[QUOTE=ccoronios;7397094]
Actually, chain under chin is ‘better’ than chain over nose. I know the over nose is the preferred ‘English’ style; I had never done it any other way 'til I started riding western. Then someone pointed out to me that the nose is cartilage and the jaw is bone. MUCH easier to physically (and significantly) damage cartilage.[/QUOTE]
I have seen a chain under the jaw cause rearing. IMO they’re less likely to go up when faced with a downwards pressure.
[QUOTE=Preposterous Ponies!;7397721]
I have seen a chain under the jaw cause rearing. IMO they’re less likely to go up when faced with a downwards pressure.[/QUOTE]
Yep, this. You can often get a really unpredictable reaction with the chain under the jaw since they tend to move away from pressure. That said, if the pony is snaking his head around to bite it may be helpful to pop him under the chin.
[QUOTE=Preposterous Ponies!;7397721]
I have seen a chain under the jaw cause rearing. IMO they’re less likely to go up when faced with a downwards pressure.[/QUOTE]
I’ve used a chain both ways and have never seen the under the chin cause any more rearing (or other bad behaviour) than an over the nose chain.
Horses actually move into pressure (think of a horse pulling back: they go up, into the pressure, not move away from it. )We spend A LOT of time teaching them to move away from pressure. The reaction to a chain over the nose is also to throw the head up…and if not timed well, can lead to rearing.
[QUOTE=RugBug;7398047]
I’ve used a chain both ways and have never seen the under the chin cause any more rearing (or other bad behaviour) than an over the nose chain.
Horses actually move into pressure (think of a horse pulling back, they go up, into the pressure, not move away from it. We spend A LOT of time teaching them to move away from pressure. It’s also way the reaction to a chain over the nose is also to through the head up…and if not timed well, can lead to rearing.[/QUOTE]
I get what you’re saying but if you pull a horse down from beneath their chin (with or without a chain under the chin) their reaction is to pop their head up, not down. I have never, ever seen a horse respond to being popped under the chin by putting their head down.
I think, using your example, my experience still holds true - when a horse receives pressure under its nose it would be wisest for them to move away from the pressure by dropping their heads. Instead, they move into (I guess?) the pressure my popping their heads up. I think I mixed them up (the terminology, not the horse’s reaction) in my original post. I am admittedly very bad at what is considered moving into and moving away from pressure. It’s like having to make my hands into L’s to tell which way is left and which is right…
Need to go back to the drawing board. This is step one, get the ground work/manners back in place. Your pony’s brain is elsewhere, get him back focused on you. Not necessarily Parelli, as I don’t agree with a lot of their stuff… but good ole regular horsemanship can do wonders here. If you have a round pen, use this tool. Get him moving when you ask, and turning when you ask, and when he turns his bum to you, he gets in big trouble. Don’t take your emotions out on the pony in your come to Jesus meetings either. This does not usually fix the problem, sometimes it will only suppress the behaviour. You want to get to the root of the problem here. I’ve dealt with a pony like this before, and no amount of muscle and chain (on, in or around his face) was going to stop him from taking off. Literally. I wish I knew all those years ago how to go about dealing with it this way.
Don’t just lead to and from the field, make sure he doesn’t know what you’re going to ask next. Keep his mind busy, and focused on you. And ya, a rope halter here is going to be a better bet than a flat leather or nylon halter.
And remember that every ask, and give, gets release.
[QUOTE=french fry;7397745]
Yep, this. You can often get a really unpredictable reaction with the chain under the jaw since they tend to move away from pressure. That said, if the pony is snaking his head around to bite it may be helpful to pop him under the chin.[/QUOTE]
I’ve seen the opposite. Over the nose also can cause them to go up too. Some seem less reactive to it under the chin (just as most curb chains are set). And regardless, if the pony is bucking and biting, keeping his head up And keeping him out of the personal space of handler is probably more the issue then him putting his head up (which is more of an issue for small people with large horses). With biting, I like the chain under so I can flick chain at them when teeth come. Hard to describe but for biter, I usually want them to move away fast and chain under the chin has worked better more often.
Honestly, I find rope halters most effective and the least likely to cause rearing but all these things need to be in educated hands.
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7398713]
Honestly, I find rope halters most effective and the least likely to cause rearing but all these things need to be in educated hands.[/QUOTE]
Yes. I’m a rope halter convert. Sigh. Hell might be freezing over. 
Past posts from me will show a pretty staunch stand that leather with a chain is just as good (and you can get a lot done with that combo). However, when I started handwalking my horse, I found just the leather halter to not be enough…and the leather halter with a chain to be too much. The rope halter gives me the right amount of control, without sending him over the edge.
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