Hempfling - Different approach to being with horses

[eightpondfarm]

@StB.YM

If you watch thoroughbred stallion handlers as they walk stallions to the breeding shed, you can see moment that look like this if you choose to frame what is happening in a magical way. Stallions can be excited when walking to the breeding shed. They may rear at times and then go back to walking like decent citizens.

You keep saying we don’t understand. We do - we just also know that nothing you are showing us is novel, mind-blowing, or anything other than what the standard of professional horse handling is

Any breeding stallion used to being collected (or live bred) not just thoroughbreds…they come out of their stalls on their hind legs. Most have learned to walk on two legs! Hey…what a good trick to ‘teach’ a horse! As-IF it’s not perfectly normal behavior…

about those gurus… all of them. Not an attraction to me. Men who pound their chests about their skillz are a thing i run FROM not toward. Give me a quiet horseperson, who flies under the wire— and is sage, observant and knowledgeable and i’ll give a listen. But a loudmouth chest thumping knowitall, no thank you. YOU go pay him. Me, i already possess… and probably surpass, his horse-training abilities.

[Paint_Party]

@BrownDerby

Off topic but if anyone needs a gift for a horsey friend, Prancercise™ has a book, a DVD, and tee shirts for sale.

Thanks! Now I know where to get my COTH Secret Santa 2023 gift!

[Benv]

All I was asking is if you could please show me just one clip where someone is doing something similar to what Hempfling is doing, like some of the previous clips which I posted, or of the many other examples of his work. What I normally see and what you have been bringing so far, is dressage, show or the kind of natural horsemanship where people are killing the souls of their horses by chasing them in a roundpen, like predators, like how a lion would do for example in the wild, until the horse simply gives up and says “kill me”. When I look at Hempfing’ horses and how he is with them, in compare to for example Parelli and Catwalk and so many others, then what Hempfling is doing, is something entirely different. You are only complaining about the music etc. because you are lacking good arguments – please turn of the music and watch without sound if it is disturbing you so much. You couldn’t bring me even just 1 example from the billions existing clips of someone who is doing the same with horses, none of the examples you have been bringing are coming anywhere near to what Hempfling is doing and has been able to convince me.

[Bluey]

@Benv

All I was asking is if you could please show me just one clip where someone is doing something similar to what Hempfling is doing, like some of the previous clips which I posted, or of the many other examples of his work. What I normally see and what you have been bringing so far, is dressage, show or the kind of natural horsemanship where people are killing the souls of their horses by chasing them in a roundpen, like predators, like how a lion would do for example in the wild, until the horse simply gives up and says “kill me”. When I look at Hempfing’ horses and how he is with them, in compare to for example Parelli and Catwalk and so many others, then what Hempfling is doing, is something entirely different. You are only complaining about the music etc. because you are lacking good arguments – please turn of the music and watch without sound if it is disturbing you so much. You couldn’t bring me even just 1 example from the billions existing clips of someone who is doing the same with horses, none of the examples you have been bringing are coming anywhere near to what Hempfling is doing and has been able to convince me.

I think you are pulling our leg.
The mention of Parelli and Catwalk as a great example of horsemanship, twice now I think, gives it away:

Pat Parelli Abuses Horse "Catwalk" at Natural Horsemanship Demonstration

[Benv]

@Bluey

I think you are pulling our leg.
The mention of Parelli and Catwalk as a great example of horsemanship, twice now I think, gives it away:

If this was unclear in my first formulation - this was brough up as an example of what happens when another horseman was working in public with a difficult horse in his first time meeting this horse. I have not said at any point that this is an example of good or for bad horsemanship - you can form your own opinion. I hope you can understand now what I meant.

[Paint_Party]

@Paint_Party

@Benv

there are thousands of well-educated and respected individuals who understand the exceptional work Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling has done…

@Benv

There are however millions who percieve the work Hempfling is doing in a similar way to what I do…

@Benv

You couldn’t bring me even just 1 example from the billions existing clips of someone who is doing the same with horses

I have a feeling we’re headed for a trillion something-or-other soon.

@Benv you really need to curtail your mathematical hyperbole or you’re going to run out of numbers. Just sayin’.

[AMackechnie]

@Bluey

Do you really are saying all that with a straight face?

"Can you have a the same situation that is handled on this level? There is nothing comparable and no one who would dare to do it … "

That is a nonsense, ridiculous assertion.
There have been traveling horse whisperers for centuries.
They would go from town to town, promoting themselves as they were going to be “taming wild horses no one else could tame”, putting on shows about it, is the predecessor of today’s “natural horsemanship” clinicians of the past half century.

I can’t imagine why you keep bringing such stuff here and insist this is some kind of out of this world, never seen before magic, an assertion so easy to debunk?

Thank you, Bluey. This is my opinion as well.

I’ve trained many a horse over the years, groomed them, ridden them, shown them, bred them, you name it. I have not, however, thought I needed to video every moment and promote myself as a “Master”, nor do I need to provide “proof” of my years with horses as evidence. It’s ridiculous.

I do have a vision in my mind, however, of what my mule would do to “The Master”. He’s a very smart animal, very observant of human body language; he will not be fooled by anything.

[TwiSedai]

@Mara

OP is Nick P’s better-educated cousin.

Nah, it’s the Maestro after he found a thesaurus.

This is wild there’s literally no way OP isn’t the Heffalump guy.

[Jackie_Cochran]

One positive has come about for me from this discussion.

I am re-reading “Adventures Unbridled” by Moyra Williams yet again. I am also enjoying re-reading this book greatly.

It is HARD to gauge exactly how much this book influenced my horsemanship. I first read it in the dry period of my youth, after 4 years of trail riding Criollos in South America and many years before I got my first horse and tried to ride in a somewhat educated manner.

This book was instrumental in showing me a horse’s “soul”. It showed me how to gain the cooperation of a horse when I could not influence the horse’s behavior by force or cruelty. It taught me to give horses time to figure stuff out.

I think it was around that time that I first read “Common Sense Horsemanship” by Vladimir Littauer, the book that STILL influences what I do every single minute I am on a live horse.

I never tried Moyra Williams system of bitless bridle, for the simple reason that every horse she trained to it (5 to 7 horses) and used it for riding ended up dying early. I do not know why these horses died early. After several years of riding my first horse, often in bitless (Jumping Cavesson bridle like Kathy Kusner used on Untouchable) I came to the conclusion that for the “soul” of the horse it helps to have some non-abusive method of compelling the horse to obey me. My first horse was a true saint, extremely cooperative with my elementary mish-mash of riding, but he was the horse that I finally got after 13 years of fruitless yearning, and I was NOT going to risk him because life proved to me that he was my ONLY chance to learn how to become a good rider. Yes I rode bitless, but I used my reins to communicate with the horse’s head and to enforce obedience to my aids.

So with my first horse I followed Littauer. I still follow Littauer, because for me with my limitations Littauer taught me how to ride non-abusively and how to encourage the horse’s cooperation.

Reading “Adventures Unbridled” yet again is very pleasurable. This was the first book I read that actually illustrated the rider having a conversation, many conversations with the horse.

[Scribbler]

@Benv

@Bluey

I think you are pulling our leg.
The mention of Parelli and Catwalk as a great example of horsemanship, twice now I think, gives it away:

If this was unclear in my first formulation - this was brough up as an example of what happens when another horseman was working in public with a difficult horse in his first time meeting this horse. I have not said at any point that this is an example of good or for bad horsemanship - you can form your own opinion. I hope you can understand now what I meant.

Nobody here respects Parelli.

[EventerAJ]

Working with a Barb Stallion in Morocco

@Benv, here is a video of Warwick Schiller working with a distracted stallion for the first time. You probably won’t be impressed by this video, as there is no magical sense of divine communication, and (gasp) the horse is briefly run in circles around the pen. But this is REAL, PRACTICAL horsemanship, demonstrating good timing and awareness, with full explanation and instruction behind the what & why of each movement. There is no force, no haste, no ego, no mystery, just common sense, perception, and leadership.

[sherian]

so true about many boards - clueless novices who believe the self proclaimed experts really are experts and nary a lick of common sense among them. I left one after I was accused of fat shaming an obese horse

[propspony]

@Benv. I’m still waiting to hear why you think some guy, who couldn’t even teach you how to handle your own horses after years of trying, and has convinced you that you’re so horrible you shouldn’t even TOUCH a horse, is some kind of equine messiah…

Because, to me… that sounds like absolute BS of the highest degree.

[Montanas_Girl]

OP, if you want to see an actual master horseman deal with a TRULY dangerous stallion, go watch the movie “Buck”. Compare what you see there to what your guru is (not) accomplishing in the clips you’ve shown here.

That movie also serves as a cautionary tale for what happens when people who have no business owning stallions get caught up in the “romance” of the idea.

[BrownDerby]

Ugh, that one. She stilll has a ton of studs and is breeding like crazy. For color and curly coats. (The one in the documentary was a curly, just flat coated in summer).

[Scribbler]

So I also don’t get the emphasis on the one time workout. Horses are a long term relationship. The first few times I work a new horse Id be looking to see what they know, how they respond. Asking them what they think about things. Seeing what scares them what excites them what they like to do. Our moderately nice horses will all spontaneously run circles from glee not fear if they haven’t been out for a few days. I let them get it out.

Anyhow the only kind of person who has to stage an OMG moment for an audience on working with a new horse is an itinerant showman.

The big question isn’t how does this horse react the first time you work him. The big question is what’s he doing a year later after you’ve worked with him every day? How have you improved his relationship with the human world?

It’s the difference between thinking you can and need to impress strangers in bars versus establishing good healthy ongoing relationships with your real friends.

[Benv]

@propspony

@Benv. I’m still waiting to hear why you think some guy, who couldn’t even teach you how to handle your own horses after years of trying, and has convinced you that you’re so horrible you shouldn’t even TOUCH a horse, is some kind of equine messiah…

Because, to me… that sounds like absolute BS of the highest degree.

I never said anything like this and it is also not true, I don’t know where you have been getting this from. And even if no pupil would be able to do what he is doing, this was never the question, and it doesn’t change the fact that it is unique what he is doing. It is disappointing that again there are no true arguments and that because of this, it is now again going to personal things.

[findeight]

@Benv

I never said anything like this and it is also not true, I don’t know where you have been getting this from. And even if no pupil would be able to do what he is doing, this was never the question, and it doesn’t change the fact that it is unique what he is doing. It is disappointing that again there are no true arguments and that because of this, it is now again going to personal things

Well, most trainers goal is to teach students to be at least as good as they are if not better. They measure their success by the success of their students, not by being a deity like Master with a flock of followers who dare not aspire to reaching that level.

If you are a client, has he convinced you you simply are inadequate to ever reach his level?

[chestnutmarebeware]

@sherian

I left one after I was accused of fat shaming an obese horse

That’s hilarious!

[propspony]

@Benv You wrote it yourself here:

@Benv

and anything else I am not willing to do. It is clear to me that I am not on the level to approach horses,

@Benv

For me personally I fully agree with the statement that one should be at Master level in the mentioned disciplined before choosing to engage with horses.

Don’t know why anyone would follow someone who’d convinced them they weren’t good enough to touch a horse…