Hempfling - Different approach to being with horses

strong text[quote=“Benv, post:20, topic:785605, full:true”]
The idea was to discuss the content of the post - which talks about the path towards the horse, the historical background, the requirements towards the rider.
For the avoidance of the doubt - it is not a promotional post. I was simply asking for the opinion of people sharing a similar area of interest.
I do understand your stand point now and since it seems we are rather far is our perception I would bow out of this conversation. Thank you for your time and effort.
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Well someone else might come along and comment in a different direction.

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Exactly. “Ever” is a longer time than recorded history. :wink:

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Maybe there’s a language barrier, but I suspect you’d get more “discussion” if there was some coherent question or claim to discuss. “The path towards the horse”? From where, exactly? “The historical background” of…? “The requirements of the rider” for which discipline?

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All I could think of reading the OPs posts was this:

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So I Googled Hempfling. Looking for any reactions beyond puff pieces. I ended up finding a blog written some years back by a person who liked and respected his work but had comments about his lessons.

Apparently at that time Hempfling was offering year long lesson packages that didn’t actually involve much horse time but into martial arts and meditation to get you ready for the horse. Person had to sadly conclude the lessons were a fail in terms of teaching horse skills. Mentioned that Hempfling actually has no students or proteges that have come anywhere near his level. He’s mostly directing people away from working with horses.

That syncs with what the OP here says. And for me it means this trainer is a fail as a coach. He can’t or won’t actually teach his skills just mystifies them.

That to me is a huge red flag that he is marketing to the naive and not to actual horse people. And ramping up the mystique to burnish his image.

Liberty work is not rocket science. Horses generally want to be with you. You learn timing through doing.

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I finally got around to watching the two videos the OP linked, the first one, didn’t look at all like an aggressive stallion, no idea if it was a stallion or not, but it looked like a cranky horse that was worked around in small circles until it got some starch out. If it was aggressive it would have been coming at him a lot harder! My marshmallow appendix QH would have been considered aggressive compared to this persons standards when she was longed on a day she had her knickers in a twist, but she’d always come to to me and be gentle after she got her energy out.

The second video (from what I watched) you could see him cuing the rearing. He’s got those horses trained alright, but I don’t see any majikal training methods in either of them

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After attempting to watch a few videos (which I fully admit I could not do without flipping forward; they mostly just seem to be a collection of short clips rather than an explanation of any process) I’m further convinced that the OP is just the trainer looking to acquire more followers. The language structure seems very similar…

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My thoughts too. The “discussion” is limited to “look at these video clips. Why don’t you understand the genius?! Screw you guys, I’m going home!”

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Dear members of the horse forum, I wanted to take a moment to express my thoughts regarding my experience in participating and sharing my opinions in this forum. Normally, I tend to refrain from actively contributing to such platforms, and my recent encounter here has solidified this stance. I must admit, I am quite taken aback by the overall quality of the conversations and the manner in which individuals choose to respond to my personal opinions.

Regrettably, I feel disheartened and insulted by the disrespectful and attacking nature of several individuals’ reactions - which is forcing me to defend for no reason. The lack of respect, both towards me and the topics I have brought up, has left a lasting impact. Therefore, I feel compelled to make it explicitly clear that I no longer wish to engage in conversations of this nature, and I have learned my lesson to avoid participating in this forum moving forward.

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@Benv, no one is forcing you to do anything and there’s no need for you to engage at all. You can just step away and stop reading. If you have notifications on, may I suggest that you turn them off?

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Flounce 2.0!
Bonus points for extra verbiage!

(Sorry y’all, I know my snark is showing - need to tuck that back in…)

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Again, OP, if you could provide some kind of coherent question or discussion point, you’d find that most posters here are very knowledgeable, thoughtful, and eloquent. We are happy to discuss when we have something to discuss.

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“The book changed the world”

Ermmmmm…ok.

I agree this is likely Mr H himself doing a spectacular job at a level I’ve not seen others do so exceedingly well and with such fervor and passion. Not only can he not or will he not teach humans his remarkable horse training skills he also cannot effectively self promote in a meaningful or impactful manner.

That’s a Lotta word salad before I’ve had any coffee.

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How do you know we have different perception? No one has even touched on this content or their own beliefs.

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Agreed. I’m still wondering what Benv wants to discuss besides shock and awe at the amazing training skills presented, which many of us are not getting based off the videos they have shared.

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Yeah.

This forum is way beyond See the Pretty Pictures, or wow, I wish I could do that.

There’s enough people here doing various disciplines at a high enough level that someone is bound to jump in and pop any bubble.

Because COtH tends towards actual horse people with training skills, we tend to be pragmatic. All of us have seen 1001 videos and many of us have taken our own videos for sales or blogs or SM. We have long discussions about what we want to see in a sales video, for instance, and how many sellers do things like cutting out transitions or playing distracting music or slow motion to hide issues with how the horse moves. So we are actually quite savvy horse media consumers.

We have all had years of lessons, as children (well, not me, I just got on and figured it out) and adults, and as adults we are very conscious and discerning about our coaches. There are lots of threads about, is this coach right for me? Should I take a clinic with this visiting big name trainer? How can I make more progress?

Oh, and we all despise Parelli.

Because we are mostly long term horse owners, many people here have started colts, schooled green horses, done problem solving with project horses, and, yes, even owned stallions and run breeding programs.

So we are very pragmatic. When, at least once a month, someone posts on COTH “hey I saw this video, what do you think?” we bring our full collective set of critical and horse and life skills to the question. Right now Warwick Schiller seems to be the group consensus for problem solving ground work. I’ve browsed his videos and agree with his spproach, but feel like I have the tools for the horses I’m working with now, so haven’t done a deep dive.

I would add, that though we rarely talk about it explicitly, for all of us (except when things are very very bad) horses are our spiritual practice, our grounding to nature, our martial art (dressage and cross country devolve from cavalry!), and the sphere in which we learned tolerance, empathy, patience and cross species communication. So while I don’t disagree with Hempfling’s claim that these are all crucial to horses, I completely disagree with the idea that they need to be learned away from the horse first. I mean there are even therapy and rehab programs for PTSD soldiers and violent offenders in penitentiaries and preverbal autistic children, where they work directly with horses at an appropriate capacity, and these programs are by and large succesful for the humans and positive for the horses.

Further, the whole bit about working to be a person your horse wants to be with is highly exaggerated. Like dogs and cats, horses are domestic animals bred to have an affinity for people. Any horse treated with a modicum of kindness becomes super glued to humans. Go out in the field and they mob you. Enter the barn and they give little giggling nickers. Go into the round pen and they follow you everywhere. It’s such a basic horse trait, you have to be rather spectacularly off course not to have your horses want to be with you

So my huge problem with the Hempfling plan is that it takes you away from horses at the point in your journey you need to be with them.

That’s just wrong.

I do agree off the horse physical exercise is extremely useful, including core, aerobic, balance, which could include martial arts if you have time in your life after barn chores. I do agree that you need to keep your rage and frustration in check, and if you have genuine anger management issues you need counselling. And I recognize that many people develop fear and anxiety about this dangerous sport, and some sports psychology can help.

But mostly you need to.follow your bliss and be with horses. Appropriate horses. It’s as much an accomplishment maybe more to get a shut down older horse to happily play with you in a sedate way, as it is to teach a breeding stallion to rear on command.

So I have a very clear response to all this, based on the fact I have enough liberty training skills to evaluate someone in the field.

Hempfling appears to be a skilled liberty trainer and a good showman. He produces attractive books and videos. But he does not appear to offer any genuine practical training for an active horse person, and he mystifies his process.

So his training is real, his publications are self aggrandizing and mystifying, his coaching appears to be a fail, and this forum is the wrong audience. We are already doing what he talks about.

And OP if you do want to hang out with horses, go do it. Don’t let this one online celebrity scare you away from making your own discoveries on your own time with appropriate horses.

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Listen, @Benv, I’m sure you’re a lovely person, and it seems like there’s a bit of a language disconnect here - I’m guessing English is not your primary language? You speak well, just not very colloquially, so that’s why it’s my guess.

Anyway - many of us on this forum are very experienced riders, many trainers, that have had horses for many many years. I’ve been riding and training for over 30 years, and I know that there are people with far more (and longer) experience than I on this board.

We’ve seen a lot of things, a lot of snake oil. So you would expect something presented as groundbreaking to be seen with a bit of suspicion.

So, let me actually focus on the article.

“Unlike other disciplines, working with horses requires from the very first moment a form of awareness, tremendous experience, responsibility towards these animals, special energy supply and commitment, also acknowledging the potential danger that exists.”

Anyone who has worked with horses for awhile knows this. We develop our responses well so that we can tell before it happens when horse x is going to have an issue. I suspect we just get very good at reading subtle body cues and energy.

"In the past, individuals were required to demonstrate proficiency in these aspects before being granted permission to interact with these majestic and powerful animals, under the watchful eye of a respected teacher. "

This is total BS. Yes, when you’re speaking of the High School, but not at all when you’re speaking of the ordinary human who has been riding horses as transportation or using them as pack animals for the last 5000 years.

Like most people with a lot of experience, I too shudder when a novice gets themselves in trouble that could have been prevented with some training. But that’s just…the benefit of having years of experience that tell you how many things could go wrong with a horse.

"Instead, he sees them as sentient beings with whom we can establish deep and meaningful connections. "

Yes, I think most of us do this? I mean sure, there are some jerks who just see them as sports equipment but most of us who are horse people love our horses and recognize them as very smart creatures with minds of their own.

" He advocates for a compassionate and mindful approach towards all living beings, emphasizing the significance of respecting and caring for the natural world. "

Uhhh ok. That’s nice.

“Working with horses cultivates essential life skills such as patience, perseverance, and empathy, which can be applied beyond the equestrian world.”

Yep - we all believe this too. This isn’t unique to Hempfling.

“However, what is often overlooked, according to KFH, is the fundamental distinction between being with horses and engaging in other forms of human activities. Unlike activities involving drums, tennis rackets, soccer balls, or butterfly collections, being with horses encompasses an entirely different experience.”

This is true, this is why many of us have this addiction problem.

“Moreover, this path to horses is typically challenging, as it invariably leads individuals to confront their own nature and delve into their innermost core of personality.”

I don’t know what “this” path is, however, horses will do that. No magic required. Just the animal. Because this relationship is unique. They put their lives in your hands, and you put yours in theirs, so by it’s very nature it’s different than most other things that we do. But I don’t know of anyone beyond the novice stage of horsemanship who doesn’t get that.

So I guess - I think Hempfling may have some very nice ideas, but they aren’t magic and they aren’t anything most of us are missing. I’m always wary of trainers who wrap their methods in some sort of woo and emphasize a lot of liberty work and weird tricks. I think trick training, liberty work etc. are fine if that’s what you want to do, but they are not in any way superior to teaching horses things the modern normal way. And by modern normal I do mean ethically sound, teaching methods that most of us have learned.

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In what way? I for one have never even heard of this guy, and my one friend who does a lot of ground work has never mentioned him among the teachers she does follow.

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Klaus is not my cup of tea at all. No need to discuss anything further. If you enjoy watching what he does that is great.

While you regret posting here , actually these comments are pretty mild mannered.

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Thank you for the several responses referring to the content of the post. I see that it was may be too long a not clear what were the aspects I was assuming are interesting/ relevant for discussion – so here is a summary of the post to make it more accessible on the forum and clear:

In this article, Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling’s unique approach to teaching people to be with horses is explored. Hempfling emphasizes the crucial distinction between being with horses and other activities. Mastery in various areas like body awareness, mental alertness, judgment, personal development, patience, and empathy is crucial already when approaching horses for the first time. Lack of these skills when approcahing the horses for puts the horse and the rider in danger and real risk of harm. Hempfling underscores the significance of the journey towards horses that must take place before one is approaching the horses and the transformative experience it offers.

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