Is there any resources available that let you know what herbs etc are proven to be unsafe for pregnant mares and which ones are just labeled as “not for use in pregnant mares” as an ass coverer because there is no documented safety tests?
No regulation. Very little science.
The Veterinary Journal
Volume 178, Issue 1, October 2008, Pages 21–31
Some commonly fed herbs and other functional foods in equine nutrition: A review
Carey A. Williams, , Emily D. Lamprecht
Abstract
Most herbs and functional foods have not been scientifically tested; this is especially true for the horse. This paper reviews some of the literature pertinent to herbal supplementation in horses and other species. Common supplements like Echinacea, garlic, ginger, ginseng, and yucca are not regulated, and few studies have investigated safe, efficacious doses. Ginseng has been found to exert an inhibitory effect on pro-inflammatory cytokines and cyclooxygenase-2 expression. Equine studies have tested the anti-inflammatory effects of a single dose of ginger, post-exercise. Echinacea has been reported to have anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties. Yucca contains steroid-like saponins, which produce anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, and anti-spasmodic effects. However, some herbs have drug-like actions that interact with dietary components and may contain prohibited substances like salicylates, digitalis, heroin, cocaine and marijuana. Horses fed garlic at >0.2 g/kg per day developed Heinz body anaemia. Drug–herb interactions are common and caution needs to be taken when implementing ‘natural product’ usage.
Most likely a wide array of herbs are perfectly safe in pregnant or otherwise mares, but no one is going to make a statement like that in the absence of expensive studies to prove it.
Devil’s Claw is pretty obviously labeled not for use in pregnant mares but that’s the only one I can think of off the top of my head. I think the reason behind that is research showing its negative effects on pregnancy in other animals, but maybe also horses too, not entirely sure.
I wish people would stop saying this. It is simply not true, but it is one of those internet myths that continues to perpetuate.
Animal supplements and feeds (some products that people think of as a supplement are technically a feed due to ingredients) are regulated by many different government and non-government organizations. The FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine does regulate supplements and the Association of American Feed Controllers (AAFCO) regulates feed supplements. Reputable companies are also members of National Animal Supplement Council (which sets strict quality and safety guidelines for supplements - look for the NASC seal on your supplements). In addition, each state has regulators that decide whether or not to allow supplements and feed to be registered and sold in their state and state rules differ from state to state. There are even some regulations on human food like the Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA) that will also apply to animal supplements.
Are there unscrupulous companies out there selling supplements that don’t follow regulations for safety, quality, and labeling? Absolutely and they are simply flying under the radar for now - though there are many that are issued letters and sanctions by the FDA, but unless you are looking for them you’d never see them which again supports the myth that supplements aren’t regulated.
Your reputable supplement companies are following numerous regulations for animal supplements that are in many cases more stringent than those in human supplementation.
From the AAFCO site:
Federal laws and regulations do not recognize a category of products for animals called dietary supplements. Depending on the stated intended use, a product is either a food or drug.
For animals, the Food and Drug Administration Center for Veterinary Medicine (CVM) regulates two classes of products: food or drugs. Depending on the intended use, an animal food supplement product is considered either a food or drug. There is no separate category for “supplements” for animals.
I know that feed and drugs are regulated. But supplements fall through the cracks of the current regulations, hence the formation of NASC to self regulate themselves. Kudos, it’s a start.
as per this: http://nasc.cc/historical-summary/
Who does the studies for safety and efficacy? Where can consumers find this information? How is concentration of active ingredients in herbal products verified?
here is also the issue with NASC of the cost of membership.
Small producers cannot afford to pay the costs associated with membership, so they simply market without it.
NASC, as Katy says, is a start, but not a solution.
Do not use Pennyroyal. Used to be used to induce abortions.
Some herbs, like Blue Cohosh are are sometimes used in very late stages of pregnancy near time of birth.
There are books, including one (name escapes me now) that Dr Ihor Basko contributed to along with other vets.
I would use WEBMD to lookup specific herbs / supplements. if there is a warning for human pregnancies then I would ‘assume’ not good for my mares.
My partial opinion on supplements is this…
They are most often attractively packaged.
The vast majority of ingredients come from countries with atrocious safety records.
I don’t feel comfortable feeding coal tar, petroleum or industrial by products.
Herbs from China, the most contaminated farm land on the planet, is not a wise choice. Ditto for shellfish used in joint supplements. If you are buying herbs from China (some vets sell the stuff) can you point to the place on the map that is not contaminated?
There are small farms right here in the USA that are growing herbs, source of the herbs is important to know. Grow your own or seek out these small growers, they advertise on line but their packaging is not as attractive.
Avoid synthetic vitamins, use food sourced supplements when possible.
My opinions.
[QUOTE=acdressage;8757820]
I wish people would stop saying this. It is simply not true, but it is one of those internet myths that continues to perpetuate.
Animal supplements and feeds (some products that people think of as a supplement are technically a feed due to ingredients) are regulated by many different government and non-government organizations. The FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine does regulate supplements and the Association of American Feed Controllers (AAFCO) regulates feed supplements. Reputable companies are also members of National Animal Supplement Council (which sets strict quality and safety guidelines for supplements - look for the NASC seal on your supplements). In addition, each state has regulators that decide whether or not to allow supplements and feed to be registered and sold in their state and state rules differ from state to state. There are even some regulations on human food like the Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA) that will also apply to animal supplements.
Are there unscrupulous companies out there selling supplements that don’t follow regulations for safety, quality, and labeling? Absolutely and they are simply flying under the radar for now - though there are many that are issued letters and sanctions by the FDA, but unless you are looking for them you’d never see them which again supports the myth that supplements aren’t regulated.
Your reputable supplement companies are following numerous regulations for animal supplements that are in many cases more stringent than those in human supplementation.[/QUOTE]
Actually it’s Gospel Truth and herbal industry spends tens of millions of dollars every year to ensure that there is no Federal regulation of the industry.
Supplements are drugs. They may have come from a plant, not a factory, but that’s a distinction without a difference. Anyone who drugs their horse without a proper SOAP is a medical experimenter and their horse is their “guinea pig.” Some folks are perfectly OK with that; I’m not.
You money, your horse, but don’t try and pee down my neck and tell me it’s raining.
G.
[QUOTE=Ticker;8758716]
Herbs from China, the most contaminated farm land on the planet, is not a wise choice. Ditto for shellfish used in joint supplements. If you are buying herbs from China (some vets sell the stuff) can you point to the place on the map that is not contaminated?
There are small farms right here in the USA that are growing herbs, source of the herbs is important to know. Grow your own or seek out these small growers, they advertise on line but their packaging is not as attractive.
Avoid synthetic vitamins, use food sourced supplements when possible.
My opinions.[/QUOTE]
Just keep in mind that not all “Chinese herbs” are sourced from China.
Here’s a good source of info , PubChem
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ although it’s far more useful if you plug the chemical name of the active compound into the search engine. Only a few herbal extracts are listed under the herb name, like:
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/44147684#section=Top
BIG problem with herbs is there are many many different chemicals and very few to none are assayed or tested to know what other potentially bad stuff is in there, too. The quantity of plant chemicals is very dependent on environmental factors so unless those factors are known and managed, I would assume a huge variability in both active, and potentially toxic chemicals.
Those of us with education in environmental toxins, plant pathology and plant ecology have a very deep respect for the toxic nature of Nature. Don’t kid yourself. Chemicals are chemicals if they come from Nature or Big Pharm.
I’d rather use drugs that have been tested for safety, efficacy, concentration and purity. Big pharm is greedy, yes, but they are under a lot of scrutiny and I appreciate that scrutiny.
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8759043]
Just keep in mind that not all “Chinese herbs” are sourced from China.[/QUOTE]
The equine vet I know was selling Chinese herbs clearly marked ‘made in china’ which to me equals heavy metals and pesticides.
There are other locations that grow Chinese herbs, when they are put on the label as ‘country of origin’ then I can choose to buy or not as an informed consumer. Until then, what I know is that the vast majority of ingredients are sourced from china/India/etc because they are cheap.
If I wanted to purchase herbs, I would look to one of the many small organic farms in the USA.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;8758803]
Actually it’s Gospel Truth and herbal industry spends tens of millions of dollars every year to ensure that there is no Federal regulation of the industry.
Supplements are drugs. They may have come from a plant, not a factory, but that’s a distinction without a difference. Anyone who drugs their horse without a proper SOAP is a medical experimenter and their horse is their “guinea pig.” Some folks are perfectly OK with that; I’m not.
You money, your horse, but don’t try and pee down my neck and tell me it’s raining.
G.[/QUOTE]
+1000! 
What constantly amazes ME is that so many people WANT, NEED, and are LOOKING for a completely useless rathole to throw so much money down! :lol:
Supplements are not automatically drugs. If they were, they WOULD be regulated.
Calcium can be purchased as a supplement. Is it a drug? Vitamin E? What’s your specific definition of a drug?
If they were considered drugs, then they very hay and grass we feed would be drugs.
[QUOTE=JB;8759596]
Supplements are not automatically drugs. If they were, they WOULD be regulated.
Calcium can be purchased as a supplement. Is it a drug? Vitamin E? What’s your specific definition of a drug?
If they were considered drugs, then they very hay and grass we feed would be drugs.[/QUOTE]
The context of the discussion was herbal supplements. Likening plant products to factory products should have made that clear. If it wasn’t then, is it now?
Regarding minerals, OK, not necessarily drugs. But that doesn’t equate to “never harmless.” In humans we can affect blood pressure with “drugs” and with sodium chloride. We can feed arsenic to chickens and they get fat; feed it to people and they get cold…at least after they die an unpleasant death.
The hard truth is that the industry that produces these items is unregulated and fights any attempt at regulation hammer and tong. So not only is there no independent source of information on effectiveness there is no independent source on safety. Or even that the product contains the items listed on the label!!!*
G.
*It is my understanding that there are labs that can, and do, assay these items for people who pay a fee. The maker can have their products certified for content and quality. But just because the product is certified to be what it purports to be does not mean it does what the maker/seller claims it does.
[QUOTE=acdressage;8757820]
I wish people would stop saying this. It is simply not true, but it is one of those internet myths that continues to perpetuate.
Animal supplements and feeds (some products that people think of as a supplement are technically a feed due to ingredients) are regulated by many different government and non-government organizations. The FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine does regulate supplements and the Association of American Feed Controllers (AAFCO) regulates feed supplements. Reputable companies are also members of National Animal Supplement Council (which sets strict quality and safety guidelines for supplements - look for the NASC seal on your supplements). In addition, each state has regulators that decide whether or not to allow supplements and feed to be registered and sold in their state and state rules differ from state to state. There are even some regulations on human food like the Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA) that will also apply to animal supplements.
Are there unscrupulous companies out there selling supplements that don’t follow regulations for safety, quality, and labeling? Absolutely and they are simply flying under the radar for now - though there are many that are issued letters and sanctions by the FDA, but unless you are looking for them you’d never see them which again supports the myth that supplements aren’t regulated.
Your reputable supplement companies are following numerous regulations for animal supplements that are in many cases more stringent than those in human supplementation.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for saying this. As the U.S. rep for Hilton Herbs, I can tell you the regulations and testing they have to go through is insane. And since they are based and made in the UK, the standards are even more rigorous, since horses are eaten in Europe and it has to be documented what they are fed, unlike here in the states.
As I used to tell my students, if you introduce a substance into the body with the intent of producing a specific therapeutic effect, be it commercial pharmaceutical, ground dirt, naturally produced hormones, or dried flowers, you are using a drug.
But it still is true that supplements are not necessarily drugs, whether they are herbal supplements or not. Herbals are not even regulated like food or drugs, unless they otherwise meet some criteria for being a food or a drug. All they have to do is follow standards for safety in processing. Many, many herbal supplements have been found to contain little, to even NONE of the herb it claimed to have in it
Regarding minerals, OK, not necessarily drugs. But that doesn’t equate to “never harmless.”
I didn’t say they were never harmless. We can kill horses with selenium, and can make them very sick with too much Vitamin A.
The hard truth is that the industry that produces these items is unregulated and fights any attempt at regulation hammer and tong. So not only is there no independent source of information on effectiveness there is no independent source on safety. Or even that the product contains the items listed on the label!!!*
Yep!
What is your definition of “regulated”? What “regulations and testing” do you have to go through?
As a supplement, as opposed to a food or drug, they aren’t regulated by the FDA in any way other than to make sure they don’t contain things known to be toxic. You don’t have to get approval to put any herbal supplement on the market. You can include an ingredient that might actually have valid research behind it as being useful for the stated purpose, but include so little of it as to be useless. That’s not regulation in the sense that food and drugs are regulated. It doesn’t even have to be SAFE to put on the market as a dietary supplement, but the FDA has to make sure it is then safe - the whole ephedrin (I might actually have that name wrong but I think you probably know what I mean, dietary weight loss supplement ingredient) deal proved that out, as it was on the market for quite a while before pulled as being potentially deadly.
There might be some non-government body that decided to “regulate” herbal supplements, but that’s not quite what we’re talking about.
