[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8759353]
+1000! 
What constantly amazes ME is that so many people WANT, NEED, and are LOOKING for a completely useless rathole to throw so much money down! :lol:[/QUOTE]
Meh, I can see how if someone was in a position where they were dealing with a ‘last resort sort of deal’ with their horse/cat/dog/loved one etc that they’d be willing to try almost anything in the hopes it may help.
Hopefully you will never find yourself in that position.
Oh, I’ve been in MANY last-resort situations. I board retirees after all! But even desperation should not cause one to resort to magical thinking, clutching at all manner of quack “modalities” and nostrums for which NO EVIDENCE of even so much as a plausible biological pathway to results exists.
There is an unfortunate trend today of pseudoscience, or nonsense couched in pseudo-scientific terms, being pitched as though it were just as proven as the real thing. The fact that American education is now so specialized that it’s entirely possible to graduate with honors from a top university without a useful working knowledge of biology and chemistry is abetting this situation. Simply, people are willing to believe anything they’re told by an “authority” that sounds like it knows more than they do.
If people would like to stop peeing money down ratholes, and simplify their horse’s “needs” a lot, I would urge you to check out the web site and FB page of Dr. David Ramey DVM from California, who debunks a TON of nonsense while cutting to the chase of what really IS proven to work.
Oh, I’ve been in MANY last-resort situations. I board retirees after all! But even desperation should not cause one to resort to magical thinking, clutching at all manner of quack “modalities” and nostrums for which NO EVIDENCE of even so much as a plausible biological pathway to results exists.
There is an unfortunate trend today of pseudoscience, or nonsense marketing couched in pseudo-scientific terms, being pitched as though it were just as proven as the real thing. The fact that American education is now so specialized that it’s entirely possible to graduate with honors from a top university without a useful working knowledge of biology and chemistry is abetting this situation. Simply, people are willing to believe anything they’re told by an “authority” that sounds like it knows more than they do.
If people would like to stop peeing money down ratholes, and simplify their horse’s “needs” a lot, I would urge you to check out the web site and FB page of Dr. David Ramey DVM from California, who debunks a TON of nonsense while cutting to the chase of what really IS proven to work: https://www.facebook.com/DRRameyDVM/
Even better, start here: http://www.doctorramey.com/hints-that-a-therapy-might-not-be-effective/
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8759981]
As I used to tell my students, if you introduce a substance into the body with the intent of producing a specific therapeutic effect, be it commercial pharmaceutical, ground dirt, naturally produced hormones, or dried flowers, you are using a drug.[/QUOTE]
That would make vitamin E a drug for one of mine.
I don’t use herbal joint supplements, but do use joints supplements and have had distinct differences in the horses when I used the right one for that horse. One cut his walk warm-up time almost in half, the other went from lame to sound (not visibly lame, but the lack of spring in the one leg was felt when riding before he started on that supplement). There was a point during the introduction of the supplement when the horse had spring on a loose rein, and lost it when asked to carry himself. I played with that multiple times just to convince myself it wasn’t imagination. :lol: After a week or so I couldn’t get him to lose his spring.
MSM does have the science showing that it reduces inflammatory cells in the joint after a hard workout when fed regularly at a dose of 10,000mg per day.
[QUOTE=JB;8757841]
From the AAFCO site:[/QUOTE]
Yes, thank you. My point precisely. Many of the products people think of as being classified as “supplements” are actually not labeled as supplements. They are labeled and regulated as feeds. Feed does not mean grain or a complete ration. It is confusing for consumers and some companies as to what is a feed supplement and what is an animal health supplement.
Any product that makes a nutritional claim (supports healthy hoof growth, maintains balance in the digestive tract, formulated to support healthy skin and coat) is a feed product. Most of your skin/coat, hoof, digestive, and immune “supplements” are labeled and regulated as feeds. Also, if the base of the product is made of feed ingredients (flax, alfalfa, rice bran, etc.), than the product will also be considered and regulated as a feed. Only products that make a structure/function claim fall under a animal health supplement. Yes, joint supplements live in this category, but are not allowed to make diseases claims (treats arthritis, increases joint strength, repairs joint cartilage, etc.) as the FDA would (and does) send letters of cease and desist as the supplement would then need to be labeled as a drug. The FDA considers and regulates animal health supplements as drugs, specifically as “drugs of low regulatory priority.” Of course there are many joint products out there that make claims of “diagnosing, curing, mitigating, treating or preventing disease, or affecting the structure or function of the body other than food”, but they are flying under the radar for now.
I really encourage everyone to look at the NASC website (FAQs) to learn more about the different classifications and how both feed and animal health supplements are regulated.
As far as research into the supplements, it depends on what ingredients you are looking for information on. Ingredients like Tasco, Diamond V, YeaSacc, Zinpro 4 Plex, ASU, and many others all have a considerable body of research behind them to test for safety and efficacy. Is every supplement clinically tested before it is sold, no. Neither is the majority of food you eat or the vitamins you take. Reputable companies use active ingredients in their supplements (both feed and animal health) that have been rigorously tested and use base ingredients that have a long history of safety in horses (flax, alfalfa, rice bran). SmartPak has done some research and testing with LSU on their SmartGut and we are seeing more and more of this type of testing on supplements being presented at the AAEP conference each year.
I would always choose a supplement with branded ingredients, research associated with it, or that carried the NASC seal over ones that didn’t. No, not all supplements are created equal but I don’t see the value in lumping them all together and throwing the baby out with the bath water.
The vast majority of ingredients that go into supplement, human and animal are sourced from China, India and other Asian countries with terrible general manufacturing practices because they are cheap cheap cheap and likely heavily contaminated with metals, toxins and banned pesticides.
Let me clarify: a “tested” product does not mean it was tested for heavy metals, toxins, banned pesticides or other ingredients. A product can be ‘tested to contain the ingredients on the label’ AND still be contaminated.
Testing is done by the suppliers, who then supply the documents for the product, which means the results come from companies mostly named “me foo yu”.
Very very very( tiny fraction) little additional testing is done after the products are shipped to the distributors, by the distributors, FDA or any other interested parties due to lack of resources, expense and the over whelming quantity of product being shipped out of these countries.
Some product are just fine, however, it’s extremely difficult to pick them out of the sea of supplements. This problem is also in our food supply and is getting worse due to the repeal of country code requirements for meat.
If you want to buy supplements, demand to know where it’s sourced from and only buy from known sources you trust. Companies are fighting against ‘your right to know’. It’s your health and the health of your animals at risk.
Make informed choices.
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