Herbicides -- scrubby fields

[normandy_shores]

I’ve got 5 small fields at my place, roughly 1/2 acre each. Two are grass and have sparse trees, and in use (I tape off the lower grassy part to rotate horses on and off grass). The other three are a mess.

I have a few very mature trees, lots of smaller pine that could/should come down, but mostly scrub brush. The stuff that’s leafy and 3 feet tall. Lots of lower sparse ground covering plants.

Bringing machinery in to selectively clear/clean it is cost prohibitive. I’d have to spend a whackload of money changing the fencing to make it goat suitable, and I don’t have a barn/suitable night shelter for goats.

The fields are easy enough to walk through and navigate on foot, but too dense to get a good sized tractor in. We do not have a trail cutter, bushhog or tractor.

Local experienced friend suggested grazeon, heavy duty agriculture herbicide. It will kill everything but grass, even trees. For the trees that are staying you have to give them a wide berth (think 1.5x their height. Supposedly the stuff is safe to graze on right away (except for lactating animals) but I’m not planning to use these fields til late next year. Once we get it semi cleaned up, we’ll have a friend go through with big tractor and tiller, and we’ll seed it next spring.

Using something so potent scares me, but it’s a much more accessible and cost effective option for us. We will only have this property for 4-5 years so we can’t dump a ton of money in, but are sure that by making this additional 2 acres more usable it will improve our use as well as resale.

Any experiences with grazeon or stuff like it? Any wisdom? I feel kind of caught in a crappy place here…

[fordtraktor]

I use graze on and/or its other similar compatriots regularly for weed control and put my horses back out on it. It is fine. Wonderful stuff for controlling weeds and maintaining fence lines when you have field or mesh fencing. I would not think twice about it except warn you for grass will be a lot nicer if you treat the weeds occasionally in future years too.

[moving_to_dc]

We’ve used Graze-on forever, also. No issues.

For killing shrubs/trees, we walk the pastures after mowing and apply Toridon by hand to JUST the cut off stem/trunks. We put the Toridon in a squeeze bottle that we have exact control over, and apply just enough to coat the stem/trunk. It kills it DEAD. It does take time, but it works. We bought our property in 2012 and all 5 acres were covered with immature cedar and pear trees, and blackberry bushes. Killed them all the first summer by cutting and applying Toridon.

We are in the same financial situation as you - we move across the country every few years, so we can’t sink a lot of $ into it that isn’t going to be returned to us. So we try to do all we can on our own and cheaply.

[neversaynever]

Have used Grazon also. Very good for killing the weeds, especially hard to kill weeds like dock. Please be aware if you compost the manure from horses that ate grass treated with Grazon, there will be a residual in the manure that can affect plants. The compost would still be good for grassy areas but not for vegetable or flower gardens.

http://www.the-compost-gardener.com/picloram.html

[goldenrow]

There are a few different formulations of Grazon. I have used multiple versions in both my professional life (agronomist) and my personal life (horse/beef/crop farm).

Grazon P&D is a very effective pasture herbicide, but it does require a restricted use license (meaning you have to go take some tests showing that you are knowledgable in the safe application of pesticides). Edit: This is true in the US, but I see you are in BC. Not sure about the rules up there!

GrazonNEXT does NOT require a restricted use license, however, if you want to re-seed next Spring, I would spray it as soon as possible now, as it does have impressive pre-emerge control.

Tordon is a good product to use on scrub trees, but may require a follow up application late summer/fall.

Also, watch the rate limit on whatever you are using. These products have a limit as to how much can be sprayed per acre, per year. This is not to make them scary, but just to make sure that we practice safe, but effective, environmental stewardship, and maintain our ability to use such products.

I would go visit with your local ag co-op agronomist. They are going to be the most knowledgeable about the weed control options in your area. They are probably not going to want to spray it with their machines, as it sounds like you have some pretty tall scrub, but they will point you in the right direction.

[normandy_shores]

[QUOTE=![](oving to dc;8133401]
We’ve used Graze-on forever, also. No issues.

For killing shrubs/trees, we walk the pastures after mowing and apply Toridon by hand to JUST the cut off stem/trunks. We put the Toridon in a squeeze bottle that we have exact control over, and apply just enough to coat the stem/trunk. It kills it DEAD. It does take time, but it works. We bought our property in 2012 and all 5 acres were covered with immature cedar and pear trees, and blackberry bushes. Killed them all the first summer by cutting and applying Toridon.

We are in the same financial situation as you - we move across the country every few years, so we can’t sink a lot of $ into it that isn’t going to be returned to us. So we try to do all we can on our own and cheaply.[/QUOTE]

So am I better to cut down the trees then use the grazeon?

We don’t have anything to mow in these fields, they’re just scrub!

Here’s what they look like: [IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/allymrtn/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsurepahql.jpg)

And here (we will keep the large trees… This is the clearest of those three fields)
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/allymrtn/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsgpq29bor.jpg)

[normandy_shores]

[QUOTE=goldenrow;8133522]
There are a few different formulations of Grazon. I have used multiple versions in both my professional life (agronomist) and my personal life (horse/beef/crop farm).

Grazon P&D is a very effective pasture herbicide, but it does require a restricted use license (meaning you have to go take some tests showing that you are knowledgable in the safe application of pesticides). Edit: This is true in the US, but I see you are in BC. Not sure about the rules up there!

GrazonNEXT does NOT require a restricted use license, however, if you want to re-seed next Spring, I would spray it as soon as possible now, as it does have impressive pre-emerge control.

Tordon is a good product to use on scrub trees, but may require a follow up application late summer/fall.

Also, watch the rate limit on whatever you are using. These products have a limit as to how much can be sprayed per acre, per year. This is not to make them scary, but just to make sure that we practice safe, but effective, environmental stewardship, and maintain our ability to use such products.

I would go visit with your local ag co-op agronomist. They are going to be the most knowledgeable about the weed control options in your area. They are probably not going to want to spray it with their machines, as it sounds like you have some pretty tall scrub, but they will point you in the right direction.[/QUOTE]

They refered me to grazeon, though it sounds like tordon would’ve been suitable. We have grazeon XC, designed for western canada. It’s a new concentrated formula and does required a farm #/license. I am not worried I will overspray, I’m scared of the stuff and more inclined to dilute it more and be conservative with spraying!

[fordtraktor]

Don’t dilute it too much. Spray it at the appropriate formulation so it can do its job and you will only have to do it once. Dilute it too much and you might not kill the plants but contribute to resistance and the need for ever stronger pesticides in the long run.

[2DogsFarm]

[QUOTE=moving to dc;8133401]
For killing shrubs/trees, we walk the pastures after mowing and apply Toridon by hand to JUST the cut off stem/trunks. We put the Toridon in a squeeze bottle that we have exact control over, and apply just enough to coat the stem/trunk. It kills it DEAD. It does take time, but it works. We bought our property in 2012 and all 5 acres were covered with immature cedar and pear trees, and blackberry bushes. Killed them all the first summer by cutting and applying Toridon.[/QUOTE]

I have roughly a quarter acre of “meadow” that is plagued by trash trees - mulberry & Chinese Elm. My intent is to fill it with perennials - shallow rooted stuff as the area is my septic leach field.
After 11yrs it is filling nicely with daylilies, Asian lilies, iris & coneflower along with the native goldenrod & Queen Anne’s Lace
The volunteer trees seem to grow mostly along one line.
I paid to have them cut down a couple years ago, but they are coming back :mad: Curse Them!
Would it be safe to use the Toridon on the leach field?

[Blume_Farm]

Question for those that do their own field spraying…

What type of equipment do you use?
How do you determine how much is being sprayed by the equipment?

I think I want to use something like this along my fence lines and do some spot spraying in paddocks. Is that a feasible use for the product? And could I use a backpack like sprayer you get at Lowes?

[Cindyg]

A half acre pasture could be done by hand using a pump sprayer. I have about an acre and a half, and I am doing it by hand, spraying one weed at a time (and not spraying the grass). It is slow going, but I’m ahead of the weeds!

[poltroon]

If you feel you need to mow the fields, it seems very likely that someone in your area has a tractor and a bushhog who will happily mow for a small fee.

(Similarly, there are people who will bring their goats to your place along with some temporary electric mesh fences to eat down weeds.)

[moving_to_dc]

This is similar to what we spray our fields with: http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/fimco-40-gallon-trailer-sprayer

Ours is older (2004 model), red, and a different brand, and a bit bigger than this one. We’ve always been meticulous about cleaning it out and storing it covered in a tarp in the barn, so it still looks and works like new. My husband has had to change out seals/rings that age & crack over time, but that is no big deal.

He pulls it with our zero turn JD mower, and is able to get into every nook and cranny. It has a wand sprayer in addition to the boom, and the hose reaches to the zero turn seat easily, he doesn’t have to stop, get off and walk back to use it.

[fordtraktor]

Pretty sure I have the exact one moving to dc posted. I have only ever used the wand because I usually just spray fence lines and patches of weeds. Mine might be a bit smaller because I don’t recall paying quite that much for it. Bigger is better, of course, we fill it several times just to do the fence lines, but I can’t justify it as little as I use the thing. A few extra trips to the barn is just something I deal with.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I spray 2+ acres by hand last year. I was using 2-4D. I wear a respirator, chemical gloves, etc. and I’m sure everyone driving by thinks I’m a loon. Whatever. It wasn’t that bad. Did it in 2 afternoons. Looks like I will get by with less spraying this year (last year was the first year after planting). I initially had a super cheap sprayer and now have a much higher quality one with better seals. I want to get a pull-behind, good to hear the TSC one is ok, but it’s down on the list. I found by mowing and spot spraying I could keep it under control.

Regarding the little scrub trees, we just cleared a different pasture with those. They were thicker than yours, but not as dense. I think you could get someone to bush hog those. I would mow stuff that size with my mower, but I’m not very nice to my mower either. We hand trimmed the smaller ones and then used a chainsaw on the bigger ones. I had a little bottle with herbicide I sprayed the cuts with.

I LOVE the goat idea. Or what about a controlled burn?

[normandy_shores]

We’re just about past burn time – huge fire risk here in the summers. Neither me or BF is comfortable with controlled burn, just not experienced. I suppose I could see if the local volunteer fire department has any interest in doing it in the fall?

We borrowed a pull behind quad sprayer and a backpack sprayer. Don’t have the space to really use the quad, so did the backpack. Also, since we have to give such a wide berth to the mature trees, we couldn’t cover the whole area.

We did the first (least dense) field, and also took the chainsaw to all the saplings and trees we wanted out. Apparently the neighbour has an old sickle mower he’s going to repair, and he’ll go through there.

The second field is quite dense, so we’re starting with the chainsaw to make space and we’ll see if there’s even areas safe to use the spray. Same with the third (though that has less mature trees we care about).

We’re HOPING that between the spray, chainsaw, and mowing, we can get the scrub brush mostly under control. Next spring I’ll either spot tree, or just diesel/burn each of the remaining bushes.

Sure wishing I had the $2000-2500 to just pay someone to rip through with an excavator!

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I get that. All winter I was planning to do a burn, but we’re in a drought. Even though there wasn’t a burn-ban in place a few weeks ago when I wanted to do it, it still freaked me out. Especially since my house is up the hill…

[normandy_shores]

It’s a bit too late, but next spring the volunteer department will do the controlled burn for us for a donation… We’ll see if it’s still needed then. The neighbour (best one ever) is contemplating buying a mini excavator and we’d be his first customers…

[fordtraktor]

You can often rent a mini excavator for a day, for around $250 a day. I have done this several times, once to put in my Nelson waterers and again just recently because I had a burst pipe under my wash rack so we had to rip out concrete and dig down 4’ and locate the problem. Much cheaper than paying someone to do it. Don’t to go one of the big rental places, go to something like a small rental place where the mini excavator is the biggest thing they have. they will let you rent it on your credit card. The big places want you to add a rider on your insurance/etc. because they are used to renting to professionals. My homeowners wouldn’t do it and acted like I was a lunatic for pretending this was a Thing People Do. They are not used to farmers and seemed sure I would go on some sort of excavating rampage.

If you are not comfortable running it, maybe you can pay the neighbor – he might want some practice if he is considering getting one! Also, if you do this, don’t forget to clean it off and fill it up before you turn it back in or they will charge you a bunch. Have a pressure washer ready to clean it. MUCH faster than a hose.

[normandy_shores]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8139661]
You can often rent a mini excavator for a day, for around $250 a day. I have done this several times, once to put in my Nelson waterers and again just recently because I had a burst pipe under my wash rack so we had to rip out concrete and dig down 4’ and locate the problem. Much cheaper than paying someone to do it. Don’t to go one of the big rental places, go to something like a small rental place where the mini excavator is the biggest thing they have. they will let you rent it on your credit card. The big places want you to add a rider on your insurance/etc. because they are used to renting to professionals. My homeowners wouldn’t do it and acted like I was a lunatic for pretending this was a Thing People Do. They are not used to farmers and seemed sure I would go on some sort of excavating rampage.

If you are not comfortable running it, maybe you can pay the neighbor – he might want some practice if he is considering getting one! Also, if you do this, don’t forget to clean it off and fill it up before you turn it back in or they will charge you a bunch. Have a pressure washer ready to clean it. MUCH faster than a hose.[/QUOTE]

Thanks! I’m asking around but no luck yet. I live in the boondocks, so there are no rental places, just people! Think 2500 population! I’d have to haul 1.5 hours to get to a rental place.

Neighbour had a mini excavator before, so is well versed in his machinery. If he’s half as good with the mini e as he is his backhoe, I’ll be impressed and it’ll take him no time at all. He always under charges us big time, he’s just the best!